Change.org Petition Wants ANTIFA Declared a ‘Terrorist Organization’ - Polidicks

[QUOTE=geel9;51795848]The argument is not about fascism being "bad". The argument is about the proper response to "bad things." [/QUOTE] to again use milo's UC Berkeley talk as an example, what is the proper response to a bad thing when the good peaceful ways of stopping it don't work? Antifa aren't typically violent. Black bloc are, I guess, but the two are different. They don't just resort to violence (those poor poor shop windows wont someone PLEASE think of the shop windows :(( ) when they see something bad, it's a response to when there are no other options, when shit like peaceful protests don't work, when despite all the talk about how 'no, really, he's bad stop giving him a platform' people are still doing it and patting themselves on the back as bastions of free speech. If you help antifa in stopping fascists having a platform, they won't need to be violent.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51795783]It's about being an ideology itself. Not the specific views of the ideology.[/QUOTE] This argument makes no sense. You can't just substitute two completely different things on the basis that they're both of category "things". If I said "I like apples" and you said "If you substitute apples for oranges, this is totally fuckdd up", would that be valid?

[QUOTE=Solomon;51795873]rightwing leftwing what does it matter anymore yo[/QUOTE] Reminder that right wing means that you believe that social hierarchy can't be destroyed and someitmes is desirable and left wing means that you believe in achieving equality.

[QUOTE=papaya;51795878]to again use milo's UC Berkeley talk as an example, what is the proper response to a bad thing when the good peaceful ways of stopping it don't work? Antifa aren't typically violent. Black bloc are, I guess, but the two are different. They don't just resort to violence (those poor poor shop windows wont someone PLEASE think of the shop windows :(( ) when they see something bad, it's a response to when there are no other options, when shit like peaceful protests don't work, when despite all the talk about how 'no, really, he's bad stop giving him a platform' people are still doing it and patting themselves on the back as bastions of free speech. If you help antifa in stopping fascists having a platform, they won't need to be violent.[/QUOTE] I don't think you somehow have this divine right to not have Milo speak, so escalating violence until you get what you want isn't justifiable. The proper response is "oh well, we tried." Not "time to fucking beat the fuck out of people we dislike"

[QUOTE=Duck M.;51795882]This argument makes no sense. You can't just substitute two completely different things on the basis that they're both of category "things". If I said "I like apples" and you said "If you substitute apples for oranges, this is totally fuckdd up", would that be valid?[/QUOTE] Doctor Zedacon is in need of "political rehabilitation" to learn the superiority of Marxism over Fascism, I present to him a free ticket to gulag.

[QUOTE=papaya;51795878](those poor poor shop windows wont someone PLEASE think of the poor shop windows :()[/QUOTE] Why do you have no problem with shop owners, who may be on your side, and have done nothing, being forced to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to repair their stores? Why is it ok to attack people's hard work when they did nothing? [editline]8th February 2017[/editline] One of these days, some antifa terrorist is going to get capped.

[QUOTE=HappyCompy;51795812]What? Seriously, what are you arguing? That all ideologies are created equal no matter their content (and therefore should be treated the same)? Talk about a false equivalency.[/QUOTE] Ideologies are formed without even a conscious effort, people don't wake up and decide one day they will be a fascist and the next a communist and the next after that something else. They are created equal regardless of the content. The original statement was about using violence "to destroy fascists and make them vanish from the face of earth." They are human beings regardless of their ideology. A Fascist and a Marxist are both just human beings. Their views may wildly differ, but they are still humans, still people. That is why the ideology was the overriding part and not the specific views it contains. Because when one says, "A Fascist" or "A Marxist" you are talking about an actual flesh and blood human being. To argue otherwise is literal dehumanization.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51795733]Stalinism/Marxism/Maoism Some other dangerous ideals too. Not just fascists[/QUOTE] The fact that you included Marxism here just shows just how little you know about leftist ideology and history.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51795901]Why do you have no problem with shop owners, who may be on your side, and have done nothing, being forced to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to repair their stores? Why is it ok to attack people's hard work when they did nothing? [editline]8th February 2017[/editline] One of these days, some antifa terrorist is going to get capped.[/QUOTE] So violence is ok vs anti-fa then [editline]8th February 2017[/editline] hypocrite

[QUOTE=eirexe;51795888]Reminder that right wing means that you believe that social hierarchy can't be destroyed and someitmes is desirable and left wing means that you believe in achieving equality.[/QUOTE] Thats a pretty piss poor generalization

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51795901]Why do you have no problem with shop owners, who may be on your side, and have done nothing, being forced to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars to repair their stores? Why is it ok to attack people's hard work when they did nothing? [editline]8th February 2017[/editline] One of these days, some antifa terrorist is going to get capped.[/QUOTE] peoples hard work? its a fucking shop window mate.

[QUOTE=KillRay;51795912]So violence is ok vs anti-fa then [editline]8th February 2017[/editline] hypocrite[/QUOTE] Violence is okay against those being [b]actively violent.[/b]

People ITT are defending declaring the anti-fascist action(antifa) as a hate and/or terrorist group... due to their dislike of fascists? Seriously? We truly live in dark times.

For the record, Marxism != Stalinism/Maoism. Not even close.

[QUOTE=papaya;51795878]to again use milo's UC Berkeley talk as an example, what is the proper response to a bad thing when the good peaceful ways of stopping it don't work? Antifa aren't typically violent. Black bloc are, I guess, but the two are different. They don't just resort to violence (those poor poor shop windows wont someone PLEASE think of the shop windows :(( ) when they see something bad, it's a response to when there are no other options, when shit like peaceful protests don't work, when despite all the talk about how 'no, really, he's bad stop giving him a platform' people are still doing it and patting themselves on the back as bastions of free speech. If you help antifa in stopping fascists having a platform, they won't need to be violent.[/QUOTE]But what they did didn't actually work, that is the problem. No fascism was stopped, it wasn't weakened. The only direction it could go is up.

[QUOTE=geel9;51795923]Violence is okay against those being [b]actively violent.[/b][/QUOTE] spreading hate speech is violent

[QUOTE=geel9;51795923]Violence is okay against those being [b]actively violent.[/b][/QUOTE] antifa isnt a violent organization at it's heart, it has violent extremists. zillas complete disregard for separating extremists from a majority shows that she probably means antifa members in general

[QUOTE=Wizards Court;51795928]People ITT are defending declaring the anti-fascist action(antifa) as a hate and/or terrorist group... due to their dislike of fascists? Seriously? We truly live in dark times.[/QUOTE] Being a fascist and saying you're not doesn't make you not a fascist.

[QUOTE=KillRay;51795912]So violence is ok vs anti-fa then [editline]8th February 2017[/editline] hypocrite[/QUOTE] If someone's busting into your store with the intention of causing harm, you are within your rights to defend yourself and others. But go ahead and call me a hypocrite, purposefully misread what I say, make me into the enemy.

[QUOTE=papaya;51795922]peoples hard work? its a fucking shop window mate.[/QUOTE] How are you this dense.

[QUOTE=papaya;51795922]peoples hard work? its a fucking shop window mate.[/QUOTE] Destroyed windows cause property values to plummet and make customers go elsewhere.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51795590]I did not call you retards. Nor do I condone mcarthyism. Don't put words in my mouth[/QUOTE] that post was not for you

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51795939]If someone's busting into your store with the intention of causing harm, you are within your rights to defend yourself and others. But go ahead and call me a hypocrite, purposefully misread what I say, make me into the enemy.[/QUOTE] i'm not making you an enemy, you have no idea how to separate extremists and a minority from a majority and yet keep insisting on trying to make a point thinking that they are all violent

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51795939]If someone's busting into your store with the intention of causing harm, you are within your rights to defend yourself and others. But go ahead and call me a hypocrite, purposefully misread what I say, make me into the enemy.[/QUOTE] hes not wrong though is he

[QUOTE=geel9;51795754]The reason people find fascists detestable is [b]because[/b] they use violence to silence and destroy their opposition. [b]You cannot use violence to destroy your (not actually violent) opposition without being fascist yourself.[/b] If a nazi tries to murder someone, absolutely do whatever you need to stop him. If someone isn't actually being violent, then using violence against them to silence their ideology is fascism.[/QUOTE] Technically incorrect, since iinm fascism by definition always has a nationalist element. It is, however, either terrorist or oppressive depending on the power dynamics involved. The main issue in either case is the use of violence against non-violent targets anyway. I'm not sure there's a general shorthand for that, but you still shouldn't use incorrect ones for lack thereof.

[QUOTE=Solomon;51795921]Thats a pretty piss poor generalization[/QUOTE] That's not a generlization, it's the academic definition of it.

[QUOTE=Solomon;51795950]hes not wrong though is he[/QUOTE] I'm not saying violence against antifa is good. Point out where I did. Please. You can't.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51795946]Destroyed windows cause property values to plummet and make customers go elsewhere.[/QUOTE] by the sounds of it it seems more the opposite - that a whole dogpile of 'free speech advocates' would rush to it to make up for the poor capital lost by the shop because of their poor shop window :((

[QUOTE=Wizards Court;51795928]People ITT are defending declaring the anti-fascist action(antifa) as a hate and/or terrorist group... due to their dislike of fascists? Seriously? We truly live in dark times.[/QUOTE] No, due to the use of violence and fear to achieve a political goal, which is inherently terrorism. Their dislike of fascism is irrelevant.

if someone can show me actual statistics that anti-fa is a majority violent organization. give me actual numbers and statistics and not links to the anarchist subreddit. i will paypal you 15 bucks