Israel bombs Gaza strip again - 2 dead, 20 civilians wounded - Polidicks

[QUOTE=The Pretender;36464936]It is in retaliation to rockets fired into Israel though, don't forget to mention that.[/QUOTE] The fact that rocket bombing still happens means that these bombing runs are doing jack shit besides making them angrier and Israel is too lazy to think about another way to deal with it.

Israel isn't actually doing anything there. It would be ten times more effective to just fucking eradicate all of Hamas. Into the ground, and promise that everyone to raise that flag again is going to die. It won't do any other way. Hamas wants Israel do dissapear, and Israel, obviously, is not going anywhere. It's one or the other, and my personal sympathy is not on the terrorist end of this.

[QUOTE=gudman;36471136]Israel isn't actually doing anything there. It would be ten times more effective to just fucking eradicate all of Hamas. Into the ground, and promise that everyone to raise that flag again is going to die. It won't do any other way. Hamas wants Israel do dissapear, and Israel, obviously, is not going anywhere. It's one or the other, and my personal sympathy is not on the terrorist end of this.[/QUOTE] Wait, so your justification for this is to eradicate hamas because they, according to you, want Israel to be eradicated. do you not see the hypocrisy here? And you do realise the people killed and wounded are civilians right? I can understand people having reservations about feeling sympathy for dead terrorists, but when the thread title says "2 dead, 20 civilians wounded" and you still talk about your lack of sympathy for terrorists? [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] You're kind of an insane hypocrite.

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;36471185]Wait, so your justification for this is to eradicate hamas because they, according to you, want Israel to be eradicated. do you not see the hypocrisy here? And you do realise the people killed and wounded are civilians right? I can understand people having reservations about feeling sympathy for dead terrorists, but when the thread title says "2 dead, 20 civilians wounded" and you still talk about your lack of sympathy for terrorists? [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] You're kind of an insane hypocrite.[/QUOTE] I said precisely that. No need for civillians casualties. Hamas are the terrorists, and it's them who should be eradicated (just like all of them), through legal courts, or just killed, no matter how.

Why do they keep bombing the Gaza strip? What do they honestly hope to achieve by blowing up random people and more importantly why hasn't the UN told them to stop this crap.

We seriously shouldn't of carted all the Jews to that place in 1949.

You know, this shit would have been acceptable in the late 1800's, but were past colonialism and zionism as an excuse for their expansion and occupation is inexcusable.

[QUOTE=Flash;36471488]We seriously shouldn't of carted all the Jews to that place in 1949.[/QUOTE] I suggest you go and research some history before stating retarded notes plus in what way exactly blaming the past helps us in solving things in the present? it practically doesnt change anything at all, and it is utterly unnecessary

[QUOTE=Kero_;36472555]I suggest you go and research some history before stating retarded notes plus in what way exactly blaming the past helps us in solving things in the present? it practically doesnt change anything at all, and it is utterly unnecessary[/QUOTE] If you could be more vague, that would be great.

[QUOTE=The Pretender;36464936]It is in retaliation to rockets fired into Israel though, don't forget to mention that.[/QUOTE] Welp, it's a good thing that they killed the small child that was responsible for those rockets. Completely justified. [editline]24th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=gudman;36471241]I said precisely that. No need for civillians casualties. Hamas are the terrorists, and it's them who should be eradicated (just like all of them), through legal courts, or just killed, no matter how.[/QUOTE] Hey dude, guess what, Hamas exists as a result of the Israeli occupation. You can't just kill everyone who wants to fight Israel because more are going to be created every day that Israel occupies Palestinian land and denies it's people political rights. That's the endgame here. Either Israel relents and stops oppressing these people, or they keep killing Palestinians until there aren't any left.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;36474928] Hey dude, guess what, Hamas exists as a result of the Israeli occupation. You can't just kill everyone who wants to fight Israel because more are going to be created every day that Israel occupies Palestinian land and denies it's people political rights. That's the endgame here. Either Israel relents and stops oppressing these people, or they keep killing Palestinians until there aren't any left.[/QUOTE] Except Hamas is a declared terrorist organisation. Palestine Liberation Organization was a lot more civilised, and bombardments were very seldom, from either side, and Arafat was a lot more willing to negotiate.

[QUOTE=gudman;36477392]Except Hamas is a declared terrorist organisation. Palestine Liberation Organization was a lot more civilised, and bombardments were very seldom, from either side, and Arafat was a lot more willing to negotiate.[/QUOTE] and? being a terrorist organization doesn't negate the fact that their motivation and recruitment efforts are fueled by israel's equally abusive response to their attacks.

That's disgusting, how could Syria do that? Oh wait it's Israel... Justified. No intervention required.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;36477554]and? being a terrorist organization doesn't negate the fact that their motivation and recruitment efforts are fueled by israel's equally abusive response to their attacks.[/QUOTE] No, you're right, it doesn't. And that's why I said that Israel might want to stop with these bombardments and concentrate on hunting down real terrorists instead.

[QUOTE=gudman;36478115]No, you're right, it doesn't. And that's why I said that Israel might want to stop with these bombardments and concentrate on hunting down real terrorists instead.[/QUOTE] Which in turn will do exactly the same thing.

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;36478905]Which in turn will do exactly the same thing.[/QUOTE] It'll stop the bombings without killing civilians. But there's still a question, where do they get so many rockets and launchers. Israel always destroys some launchers, but it seems Hamas never runs out of them.

[QUOTE=gudman;36478115]No, you're right, it doesn't. And that's why I said that Israel might want to stop with these bombardments and concentrate on hunting down real terrorists instead.[/QUOTE] They quite literally can't. Because they gave Gaza freedom from oppression and occupation, Hamas and every smaller group has free reign with Israel not being able to do a damn thing. They [B]can't[/B] get ground troops in, so the bombings are the next best thing that actually does something. [QUOTE=gudman;36479442]It'll stop the bombings without killing civilians. But there's still a question, where do they get so many rockets and launchers. Israel always destroys some launchers, but it seems Hamas never runs out of them.[/QUOTE] Wow, that is a conundrum, how do they keep getting so many weapons if Israel keeps destroying them? Maybe Israel is lying about the attacks killing military targets or maybe they're the ones providing them with weapons... Or maybe it's the Smuggling Tunnels which are so well documented there's a fucking Wikipedia page on them. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_smuggling_tunnels[/url]

[QUOTE=Devodiere;36479737] Wow, that is a conundrum, how do they keep getting so many weapons if Israel keeps destroying them? Maybe Israel is lying about the attacks killing military targets or maybe they're the ones providing them with weapons... Or maybe it's the Smuggling Tunnels which are so well documented there's a fucking Wikipedia page on them. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_smuggling_tunnels[/url][/QUOTE] What I meant was, where these launchers are actually coming from. I know about smuggling tunnels, but GRADs and other structures capable of firing rockets are not something terrorist can just craft by himself. Who's selling these things, and I doubt that there're that many rocket launchers on the black market to just waste them like that.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;36480164]Most of them come from the Soviet Union, originally. After the collapse a shit load Soviet weaponry ended up on the black market, that's how insurgents and terrorist organizations are constantly purchasing new weapons. Most of which are smuggled into the country via the tunnels.[/QUOTE] It's been more then 20 years since the collapse, and these artillery structures have been used all over the world. There just can't be that many of them still around. Who else in region can produce and sell these things to terrorists? Oh, I think I know the answer.

It's not all Soviet, a lot of Arab countries have licences to produce them and they work their way onto the markets one way or another. Backing from wealthy Saudis and other organisations help fund it, Hezbollah and the Iraqi insurgency got Iranian backing but I doubt Hamas get much. Either way there is definitely enough out there, especially when half of them are just mortars or some other ramshackle rocketry.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;36480229]It's not all Soviet, a lot of Arab countries have licences to produce them and they work their way onto the markets one way or another. Backing from wealthy Saudis and other organisations help fund it, Hezbollah and the Iraqi insurgency got Iranian backing but I doubt Hamas get much. Either way there is definitely enough out there, especially when half of them are just mortars or some other ramshackle rocketry.[/QUOTE] If Hezbollah got Tehran's backing, it's most positively that Hamas got it too, they're allies. It's not the first time Tehran is suspected in providing terrorists with weaponry.

[QUOTE=gudman;36480206]It's been more then 20 years since the collapse, and these artillery structures have been used all over the world. There just can't be that many of them still around. Who else in region can produce and sell these things to terrorists? Oh, I think I know the answer.[/QUOTE] Even if not all of it is Soviet equipment, you must realize just how vast the production of military equipment produced by the Soviets is and how much of it was dispersed in the middle east.

[QUOTE=BoysLightUp;36465119]Just because the rockets aren't JDAMs doesn't make them not a threat. Nor does it stop them from killing people, on occasion. I know I wouldn't tolerate people firing rockets at my house and trying to kill me, no matter how poor quality the munitions are.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't tolerate people bulldozing my village and setting up new homes there, then leaving me with nothing. [editline]25th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Devodiere;36465669]Partial garbage. Things like Operation Cast Lead, their major offensive a couple years ago, are designed to show overwhelming military force. They're not as effective as desired due to Hamas being tricky and having no qualms about human shields, but that is a goal. This kind of thing is not about overwhelming force though, it's about doing the bare minimum that will actually achieve something. Throwing their own absolutely ineffective bottle rockets won't help any, doing proper scaled up attacks that indiscriminately target civilians like Hamas is fucked up and they don't do that. What they do is target specific tactical points known to have weapons or be involved, because they just fired rockets, and at the very least kill soldiers with as little collateral as possible. It's only disproportionate in that it's harder to kill an armed soldier than an unarmed civilian.[/QUOTE] What are you on about? They don't target specific tactical points. They target hospitals, infrastructure, and industry. They've bombed sewage treatment plants and fishing boats so that Gazan people can't get livelihood from the ocean. 96% of Gazans live off of donated food to survive. Israel has destroyed 80% of Gaza's agricultural industry in one month (Dec 2008). They have a complete blockade on Gaza so they people have nothing; no jobs, no food, no power, no water, no nothing. The Israelis even stole the natural gas desposits in Gaza's territorial waters. And if you seriously are trying to say that collateral damage is okay because they're not specifically targeting civilians then you're fucked up in the head. [editline]25th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Glorbo;36465703]This kind of approach to things is silli, and i'll tell you why. In order to understand the situation here, you need to understand something first-Why do the Israelis and Palestinians hate each other? You know why? Not because of any "occupation", not because of rockets, not because of settlements, not because of suicide bombings or any of that bullshit. You know the real reason to why they hate one another? Because that what they are taught at home. Sure, there are reasons that caused people to educate their children that way. That's not the point. The point is that you treat hate as if it's a rational thing, that if you take away the symptoms of hate then it will somehow go away. That's not how people work. The people in Gaza/West Bank/Israel don't get up in the morning and just decide to hate each other based on the facts or their surroundings, no, they start to hate first and find reasons to bitch about later. The only chance of any peace in the region will come with a fresh generation unaffected by these opinions, and leaders on both sides know this. They know that even if they sign super-ultimate-mega peace treaty, the results will only start to show in [B]maybe[/B] 30-50 years, assuming another elected official won't fuck it up in the process. If you were any of these leaders, would you [B]really[/B] risk assets and values you believe in for something that would maybe happen a long long time from now? Of course you wouldn't. And that's why this whole mess is occurring in the first place. It's just too easy [B]not[/B] to make peace.[/QUOTE] Yes that is partly true, but that hate is very understandable. The Israelis have stolen the land, banished the people and now they're turning Palestine into Apartheid-era South Africa. Its too late to even sign a peace treaty that would recognize two nations because Israel has colonized too much already. They need to create a binational country. [editline]25th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Devodiere;36466419]First and really only problem, Hamas. You aren't going to get a deal because they don't care about stopping the attacks, I'm still doubtful they aren't just more proxies. They don't really want peace, unless it's under their terms. This shit will continue to happen because as much as bombing doesn't help, not bombing and inaction pisses the Israeli side off even more.[/QUOTE] Hamas is not the problem. They are a reaction to Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, shit they were democratically elected and Israel bombed them because they won the election. The Palestinian people don't have any options left because Israel and the US support the genocide. Hamas have said multiple times that they want peace and only if it abides by multiple UN resolutions concerning the proposed peace. Every single time a ceasefire is implemented, Israel breaks it. [editline]25th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=gudman;36471136]Israel isn't actually doing anything there. It would be ten times more effective to just fucking eradicate all of Hamas. Into the ground, and promise that everyone to raise that flag again is going to die. It won't do any other way. Hamas wants Israel do dissapear, and Israel, obviously, is not going anywhere. It's one or the other, and my personal sympathy is not on the terrorist end of this.[/QUOTE] Thats basically what the Israeli tactic is. They cause so much damage that the Palestinian people can't do anything. Christ, half the casualties in all the bombings and invasions are women and children. Gadi Eizenkot, the chief of the Northern Command said that for 'us villages are military bases'. [editline]25th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=gudman;36477392]Except Hamas is a declared terrorist organisation. Palestine Liberation Organization was a lot more civilised, and bombardments were very seldom, from either side, and Arafat was a lot more willing to negotiate.[/QUOTE] PLA is now Israel's bitch, they do whatever Israel and the US wants them to do, why do you think more rockets are fired from Gaza than from the West Bank.

[QUOTE=Earthen;36483422] PLA is now Israel's bitch, they do whatever Israel and the US wants them to do, why do you think more rockets are fired from Gaza than from the West Bank.[/QUOTE] I don't see how it's a bad thing at all. It's better to go with "Israel's bitch" than with declared terrorist orgainsation. At least rockets are not fired, and thus - no retaliation bombings.

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;36478101]That's disgusting, how could Syria do that? Oh wait it's Israel... Justified. No intervention required.[/QUOTE] Wow what a fantastic comparison it's not like 16000 people have died in one year in Syria or anything.

[QUOTE=gudman;36484371]I don't see how it's a bad thing at all. It's better to go with "Israel's bitch" than with declared terrorist orgainsation. At least rockets are not fired, and thus - no retaliation bombings.[/QUOTE] You seem so fucking fixated on the rocket firing and ignoring the concept as to 'why'

[QUOTE=gudman;36484371]I don't see how it's a bad thing at all. It's better to go with "Israel's bitch" than with declared terrorist orgainsation. At least rockets are not fired, and thus - no retaliation bombings.[/QUOTE] At the same time, no treatment of Palestinians like dirt and thus no rockets.

[QUOTE=Earthen;36487420]At the same time, no treatment of Palestinians like dirt and thus no rockets.[/QUOTE] Infinite loop, they fire their artillery, they're getting bombed and treated like shit. Though it has to stop. One way or another, but preferably with a negotiations. But Hamas are not the ones to negotiate with.

We aren't going anywhere if they continue with this "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" behaviour.

[QUOTE=gudman;36487578]Infinite loop, they fire their artillery, they're getting bombed and treated like shit. Though it has to stop. One way or another, but preferably with a negotiations. But Hamas are not the ones to negotiate with.[/QUOTE] Hamas are democratically elected and fully support a peace treaty that gives rights to the Palestinians. Although a one-state treaty would end up being better, Israel won't give in to that.