Le Pen is gaining in polls in first Run-off, Issues dividing the Left Candidates - Polidicks

a word of advice to our french friends from an american: never assume someone is too stupid to win

[QUOTE=Govna;51850790]Clinton did win. She had the majority of support among voters, hence why she defeated Trump by almost 3 million votes in the national popular vote. The problem is that the Electoral College stepped in and said, "Yeah, we know the people want her, and we know she decisively beat him... but fuck that, we're an archaic institution with the power to override this fact, and we say that Trump is the winner."[/QUOTE] Yeah-yeah. Now tell me, genius, why nobody (and especially YOU) was against the electoral system before? You had a lot of time to change it to direct vote elections. Could've hold rallies, meetings and referendums. But nobody even tried to lift a finger. Oh I know. You actually don't give a fuck because before system "worked". Now system elected someone you didn't like and ONLY NOW "BULLSHIT PLATFORM IS BULLSHIT HE DIDN'T WIN" It won't be exaggeration to say that Trump won because of you and all others that are like you. If you truly wanted system to be different you'd have done something long ago. You're just a lazy-ass hypocrite and you deserve it. [QUOTE] [editline]20 February 2017[/editline] Le Pen must not be allowed to hold office. This is a woman who sought along with the rest of her party a $30 million loan from Russia to campaign, has repeatedly praised Putin in spite of his behavior towards critics of his regime and has denounced nations and people who have condemned him and the Russian government, is against the European Union and NATO... basically would be a disaster for not only France but the West in general.[/QUOTE] Sounds like a perfect candidate for President of France. She definitely must win.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51850507]huh? in the us we had hillary who was basically a neoliberal dream who lost in the end. Germany has merkel who is much of the same and doesn't have opinions, going with what experts and popular opinion tells her to think, and she's losing ground, and france has plenty of centrist parties who are all dead as fuck.[/QUOTE] If you don't have strong opinions that clearly means that you're not sensible. Duh.

[QUOTE=maniacykt;51851909]Yeah-yeah. Now tell me, genius, why nobody (and especially YOU) was against the electoral system before? You had a lot of time to change it to direct vote elections. Could've hold rallies, meetings and referendums. But nobody even tried to lift a finger. Oh I know. You actually don't give a fuck because before system "worked". Now system elected someone you didn't like and ONLY NOW "BULLSHIT PLATFORM IS BULLSHIT HE DIDN'T WIN"[/quote] I've been against the Electoral College since I was a kid... and lived to see, you know, Gore defeat Bush but then the EC handed it to Bush anyway. I was 8. It's pretty sad that we have a system that is so ridiculously inadequate and contrary to actual democracy that an 8-year-old can see through it and formulate a critique against it. Who knows if it'll happen again? Twice less than 20 years doesn't bode well. On that note, when did you become such a fucking expert about my politics and what I am for/what I am against? I've been active in campaigning against it, just as I've been active in no shortage of other causes. I come from a politically-active family you Slavic git, and we've probably done more with our lives than the majority of people have. With that out of the way, it is [i]objectively[/i] a bullshit system. It doesn't represent the will of the people (it's undemocratic, evidenced by the fact that it put somebody in office who [i]decisively lost[/i] the election by again almost 3 million votes nationally), it doesn't help filter out unqualified candidates for the presidency, and it's an archaic remnant from when the United States was a piddlyshit country without any proper infrastructure (which complicated the shit out of elections). [QUOTE=maniacykt;51851909]It won't be exaggeration to say that Trump won because of you and all others that are like you. If you truly wanted system to be different you'd have done something long ago. You're just a lazy-ass hypocrite and you deserve it.[/quote] No, it wouldn't be an exaggeration. You should learn the English definition of what an exaggeration is. It would be pants-on-head retarded to say that. The American people overwhelmingly voted for Clinton, and that's why she beat him by almost 3 million votes. The only thing that allowed him to "win" was (again) the Electoral College overstepping this fact and declaring him the winner anyway. Trump's popularity/approval when he took office was solidified in the mid-40%s, and that was weeks ago; now, it's maybe in the low-40%s/upper 30%s. And it's barely been a month since he took office lol. The majority of Americans do not like him and do not want him as president, and we're not alone at the rate he's pissing off the intelligence community, the scientific community... considerable portions of the federal government in other words (which is not a smart thing to do). The fact that he lost the election in the first place because the majority of voters went against him, the fact that his approval rating is so low already barely a month after he's taken office, and the fact that MILLIONS OF PEOPLE in the United States alone (not to mention other parts of the world) turned out to protest against him proves that he is not wanted by the majority. He was never wanted by the majority. And again, at the rate he's pissing people off, he never will be wanted by the majority. He's going to be removed from office eventually, one way or another. [QUOTE=maniacykt;51851909]Sounds like a perfect candidate for President of France. She definitely must win.[/QUOTE] [img]https://facepunch.com/fp/flags/ru.png[/img] It's almost like Russians-- the people themselves as much as the government-- are enemies of the developed world, and we should've destroyed you a long time ago. [editline]21 February 2017[/editline] Since it apparently needs to be clarified, I mean we should've destroyed your awful government and its supporters (which there are many) a long time ago-- not the whole of the Russian people. They're not all bad. A lot actually have a positive view of the West and the United States according to Pew.

[QUOTE=Govna;51852077] It's almost like Russians-- the people themselves as much as the government-- are enemies of the developed world, and we should've destroyed you a long time ago.[/QUOTE] Dude what the fuck

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51852082]Dude what the fuck[/QUOTE] Refresh your memory on history sometime. They've been a nemesis to the West since the Bolsheviks. Now even after Communism is gone, the same rivalry is still very much alive. Hell in this topic alone about Le Pen, there's the fact that (again) she and the National Front sought a $30 million loan from them to help finance her campaign, that she's spoken in praise of their oligarchy and Putin, she's refused to condemn them for their shadow invasion and illegal annexation of the Crimea or for their support of the rebels in Donbass, etc. Not to mention the way they just meddled in our election with the DNC hacks. I don't think I need to spell out any more evidently how they're trying to sabotage the West from the inside. This is such a tired discussion. It's clear that these people and their government are a problem, and they need to be dealt with somehow. The Cold War never ended dude. I wish people would start understanding that.

[QUOTE=Govna;51852108] It's clear that these people and their government are a problem, and they need to be dealt with somehow. The Cold War never ended dude. I wish people would start understanding that.[/QUOTE] You are advocating [I]genocide[/I]

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51852114]You are advocating [I]genocide[/I][/QUOTE] "You" as in their country-- the government and its supporters, which he apparently is a supporter. Not all Russians are terrible, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think that a sizeable portion find Putin to be an attractive leader and sincerely believe that the United States is a mortal enemy that needs to be confronted. They're not our friends, they're not even close to being political allies. They are, again, very much our enemies. Look at the way they were stomping around Georgia and the Ukraine in recent years. Look at how they hacked the DNC to influence our election. Look at how they've been supporting far-right movements here in the West like the National Front and leaders like Le Pen. I don't know how to spell it out any clearer. This is a very serious matter.

[QUOTE=Govna;51852165] I don't know how to spell it out any clearer. This is a very serious matter.[/QUOTE] Then attack their government dude, not innocent folks

[QUOTE=Govna;51852108]It's almost like Russians-- the people themselves as much as the government-- are enemies of the developed world, and we should've destroyed you a long time ago.[/QUOTE] Why am I not surprised it's you who's finally gone off the deep end?

My girlfriend is russian please don't kill her. :cry:

lol russian shills in this thread govna is right, russia is still the west's enemy

[QUOTE=Govna;51852077]I've been against the Electoral College since I was a kid... and lived to see, you know, Gore defeat Bush but then the EC handed it to Bush anyway. I was 8. It's pretty sad that we have a system that is so ridiculously inadequate and contrary to actual democracy that an 8-year-old can see through it and formulate a critique against it. Who knows if it'll happen again? Twice less than 20 years doesn't bode well. On that note, when did you become such a fucking expert about my politics and what I am for/what I am against? I've been active in campaigning against it, just as I've been active in no shortage of other causes. I come from a politically-active family you Slavic git, and we've probably done more with our lives than the majority of people have. With that out of the way, it is [i]objectively[/i] a bullshit system. It doesn't represent the will of the people (it's undemocratic, evidenced by the fact that it put somebody in office who [i]decisively lost[/i] the election by again almost 3 million votes nationally), it doesn't help filter out unqualified candidates for the presidency, and it's an archaic remnant from when the United States was a piddlyshit country without any proper infrastructure (which complicated the shit out of elections). No, it wouldn't be an exaggeration. You should learn the English definition of what an exaggeration is. It would be pants-on-head retarded to say that. The American people overwhelmingly voted for Clinton, and that's why she beat him by almost 3 million votes. The only thing that allowed him to "win" was (again) the Electoral College overstepping this fact and declaring him the winner anyway. Trump's popularity/approval when he took office was solidified in the mid-40%s, and that was weeks ago; now, it's maybe in the low-40%s/upper 30%s. And it's barely been a month since he took office lol. The majority of Americans do not like him and do not want him as president, and we're not alone at the rate he's pissing off the intelligence community, the scientific community... considerable portions of the federal government in other words (which is not a smart thing to do). The fact that he lost the election in the first place because the majority of voters went against him, the fact that his approval rating is so low already barely a month after he's taken office, and the fact that MILLIONS OF PEOPLE in the United States alone (not to mention other parts of the world) turned out to protest against him proves that he is not wanted by the majority. He was never wanted by the majority. And again, at the rate he's pissing people off, he never will be wanted by the majority. He's going to be removed from office eventually, one way or another. [img]https://facepunch.com/fp/flags/ru.png[/img] It's almost like Russians-- the people themselves as much as the government-- are enemies of the developed world, and we should've destroyed you a long time ago.[/QUOTE] go to bed mccarthy

[QUOTE=Mechanical43;51852206]lol russian shills in this thread govna is right, russia is still the west's enemy[/QUOTE] Oh yeah, I guess the hostile actions of a government are a totally fair reason to completely destroy a people, you're absolutely right

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51852188]Then attack their government dude, not innocent folks[/QUOTE] Again, do you think that the Russian government doesn't have considerable support from the Russian people themselves? That's the problem: Putin is in fact a very attractive leader to many of them. Putin. Vladimir "I poison my critics, invade sovereign countries, meddle in and saber-rattle against the West" Putin. Their government is a problem, but so are the people who support it. You seriously need to study up on this.

[QUOTE=Govna;51852214]Again, do you think that the Russian government doesn't have considerable support from the Russian people themselves? That's the problem: Putin is in fact a very attractive leader to many of them. Putin. Vladimir "I poison my critics, invade sovereign countries, meddle in and saber-rattle against the West" Putin.[/QUOTE] Yeah you think I don't fucking know that? So your best idea is to go after people who do nothing but say "I like putin" but have otherwise done nothing?

[QUOTE=Govna;51852214]Again, do you think that the Russian government doesn't have considerable support from the Russian people themselves? That's the problem: Putin is in fact a very attractive leader to many of them. Putin. Vladimir "I poison my critics, invade sovereign countries, meddle in and saber-rattle against the West" Putin.[/QUOTE] Then I guess you're absolutely fine with also exterminating Trump supporters, right? Cause I'm gonna give some totally eye-opening [sp]/s[/sp] information - Putin is, like Trump, a populist. His support from Russian population comes from heavily manipulating media and public opinion by shifting attention from internal problems towards a bogeyman. Kinda like what you're trying to do right now

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51852217]Yeah you think I don't fucking know that? So your best idea is to go after people who do nothing but say "I like putin" but have otherwise done nothing?[/QUOTE] What's your suggestion to deal with this problem then? If you attack their government, its supporters will just come to its defense. The best-case scenario came and went decades ago. We should've Balkanized them. Maybe we'll be able to achieve that at some point in the future, but I just don't know. Either way, we have to recognize them for the enemy that they are, and we can't keep letting them infiltrate and meddle in the West as they are currently doing. You live here, same as I do. We've got a stake in this whether you realize it or not. Again, what's going on today is not a good thing for us-- whether we're talking about them interfering with our election or the way they're trying to undermine and destroy NATO and the European Union.

[QUOTE=Govna;51852242]What's your suggestion to deal with this problem then? If you attack their government, its supporters will just come to its defense. The best-case scenario came and went decades ago. We should've Balkanized them. Maybe we'll be able to achieve that at some point in the future, but I just don't know. Either way, we have to recognize them for the enemy that they are, and we can't keep letting them infiltrate and meddle in the West as they are currently doing. You live here, same as I do. We've got a stake in this whether you realize it or not. Again, what's going on today is not a good thing for us-- whether we're talking about them interfering with our election or the way they're trying to undermine and destroy NATO and the European Union.[/QUOTE] what is the solution you propose

[QUOTE=Govna;51852242]What's your suggestion to deal with this problem then? If you attack their government, its supporters will just come to its defense. The best-case scenario came and went decades ago. We should've Balkanized them. Maybe we'll be able to achieve that at some point in the future, but I just don't know. Either way, we have to recognize them for the enemy that they are, and we can't keep letting them infiltrate and meddle in the West as they are currently doing. You live here, same as I do. We've got a stake in this whether you realize it or not. Again, what's going on today is not a good thing for us-- whether we're talking about them interfering with our election or the way they're trying to undermine and destroy NATO and the European Union.[/QUOTE] 'Russians fucked with our elections, so we should've caused a civil war that would've resulted in massive death tolls' My dude, I'm having a hard time discerning whether you're trolling or a legitimate nutjob at this point

i don't think anybody here proposed genocide, well apart from you strawmaning bunch. what govna said is that even if putin comes to die, someone like him could take his place and russian would be just fine letting it happen. there is a big socio-political divide between the west and russia and it doesn't stem from the government only, russians wouldn't be all kumbaya if Putin disappeared. i'm saying that and realizing that the poison is now spreading in america with trump and his alt-right it's not a fun world to live in

[QUOTE=Mechanical43;51852282]i don't think anybody here proposed genocide, well apart from you strawmaning bunch. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Govna;51852077] It's almost like Russians-- the people themselves as much as the government-- are enemies of the developed world, and we should've destroyed you a long time ago.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Judas;51852259]what is the solution you propose[/QUOTE] For the time being? We need to get our shit together. We need to make sure Le Pen doesn't take office, we need to make sure that people like Le Pen don't start taking office here throughout Europe and the United States, we need to get our national security situation under control, etc. In the long-term? I'd like to see us try to break Russia up. Again, Balkanization. Something which should've been done a long time ago. Whether or not it's possible, I don't know. But this current government it has and the people who support it, that's not acceptable. [QUOTE=Rent-a-BoxHouse;51852260]'Russians fucked with our elections, so we should've caused a civil war that would've resulted in massive death tolls' My dude, I'm having a hard time discerning whether you're trolling or a legitimate nutjob at this point[/QUOTE] I'm trying to figure out why exactly people are jumping to such wild conclusions here. Do you support Putin personally? Maniac apparently does. Or at least he's more than happy to see Le Pen come to power because of how she sucks up to him and is against NATO and the European Union. Or was he just trolling? Reread his original post. It sounds like he wants to see us be destroyed. Again, sorry if I'm not a fan of world leaders and governments who poison their critics, invade other countries at their whim, meddle in my own country's election, and who are trying to destabilize our allies and undermine our diplomatic network. That bothers me. I know, it's crazy...

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51852286]snarky quote[/QUOTE] thanks i can read alright, you don't like that turn of phrase. bravo he's still not advocating for genocide as he demonstrated by precising his position. you can stick with your false supposition or you can move on and debate the ideas without resorting to shitty tactics

[QUOTE=Mechanical43;51852296]thanks i can read alright, you don't like that turn of phrase. bravo he's still not advocating for genocide as he demonstrated by precising his position.[/QUOTE] Then explain to me the position of "Balkanization". The term developed after the horrendous, [I][B][U]GENOCIDE RIDDEN[/U][/B][/I] breakup of the former Yugoslavia that displaced thousands and shattered the economies of the fledgling nations for nearly three decades. But I guess it's okay now?

[QUOTE=Mechanical43;51852296]thanks i can read alright, you don't like that turn of phrase. bravo he's still not advocating for genocide as he demonstrated by precising his position. you can stick with your false supposition or you can move on and debate the ideas without resorting to shitty tactics[/QUOTE] I don't see how saying an entire ethnic group of people are the enemy of us and then saying we should've destroyed them long ago isn't advocating some form of genocide.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51852304]Then explain to me the position of "Balkanization". The term developed after the horrendous, [I][B][U]GENOCIDE RIDDEN[/U][/B][/I] breakup of the former Yugoslavia that displaced thousands and shattered the economies of the fledgling nations for nearly three decades. But I guess it's okay now?[/QUOTE] [url=https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Balkanization#Proper_noun]Balkanization is a common term used to refer to the breaking up of a large region into smaller ones[/url]. It's got nothing to do with genocide unless you're being intentionally ridiculous about it. [QUOTE=Durandal;51852310]I don't see how saying an entire ethnic group of people are the enemy of us and then saying we should've destroyed them long ago isn't advocating some form of genocide.[/QUOTE] You must've also not seen the stream of posts I've made clarifying that I meant the Russian government and its supporters, which includes Putin and his supporters.

i guess you guys can't read for shit he precised his position and you are all nitpicking at this point. also zilla lol[U] [B]WTF[/B][/U] are [U][B]YOU TRYING[/B] [/U]to do with these ? like for real balkanization is the process through which you break up a bigger state into smaller ones. yes THE balkanization was a shit show. still it's a word we can use to describe the concept. you guys are just disingenuous, feels like i'm talking to Tucker Carlson or Glenn Beck in his prime

[QUOTE=Govna;51852333][url=https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Balkanization#Proper_noun]Balkanization is a common term used to refer to the breaking up of a large region into smaller ones[/url]. It's got nothing to do with genocide unless you're being intentionally ridiculous about it.[/QUOTE] You are intentionally ignoring the point. The breakup of Yugoslavia was filled with misery, torment and massed killings. We get the term from this period.

[QUOTE=Govna;51852292]In the long-term? I'd like to see us try to break Russia up. Again, Balkanization. Something which should've been done a long time ago. Whether or not it's possible, I don't know. But this current government it has and the people who support it, that's not acceptable.[/quote] Once again, balkanization is an incredibly violent process, and it won't even solve your fucking problem - instead of one big Russia being mean to you, you're gonna have a hundred little Russias being mean to you, and also a massive fucking arsenal of stolen WMDs being in free circulation. [quote]I'm trying to figure out why exactly people are jumping to such wild conclusions here.[/quote] Because you literally said it in plaintext. Considering an entire people an enemy is exactly the brand of lunacy that Putin is trying to cultivate in Russian people [quote]Do you support Putin personally? Maniac apparently does. Or at least he's more than happy to see Le Pen come to power because of how she sucks up to him and is against NATO and the European Union. Or was he just trolling? Reread his original post. It sounds like he wants to see us be destroyed.[/quote] No, I do not support Putin. I just don't see how any of your solutions are gonna be any good both short- and long-term [quote]balkanization is the process through which you break up a bigger state into smaller ones. yes THE balkanization was a shit show. still it's a word we can use to describe the concept.[/quote] How the fuck do you think bigger states break up into smaller ones? There is literally no fucking way to do it peacefully, especially to a country like Russia.