Earth has entered its sixth great mass extinction event, it's our fault, and we might not survive, s - Polidicks

Eh, we too stronk to go down, if something awful happens there will probably be like 10k people left

Let's be clear about this because there is a lot of propaganda going on here. Large corporations (who care about profit, not the environment) are the ones that decide that everyone is going to be polluting the world - because it is profitable for them and because they are the ones that are preventing innovation in the energy sector by using dirty tricks. Individuals don't wake up and say "I'm going to pollute today!" - we are forced to use the crap that we are provided with because game is damn-well rigged and nobody is ALLOWED to use clean energy or anything that will threaten the pockets of big energy. If something threatens their business model, they STAMP IT OUT. What do you think the NSA is for? Part 2: All this propaganda about CO2 and "too many useless eaters" is about convincing the end user that they're the bad guy and that there should be less of us when the reality is quite simply that the large corporations are no longer going to be needing their large human workforce since all the jobs will be performed by robots and software!

I don't think corporations are actually keeping things down and shutting down innovation, I think it is just that it is less costly to change the current methods of producing energy than the alternatives for "green". When more "green" energy becomes more and more cost effective we will see more adaptation of the technology. Similar to how we saw electric cars 10 years ago, and how we see them today.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48012243]How many of you just don't fucking get it? "HAH, they think we'll die out? NEVER!" Do you guys understand? Do you have any concept of what this means or do you just have a ball of fear in your stomach that you're pushing out and ignoring? When we reach a certain point of population, over-farming, over use of water, over use of land, it isn't that we'll die out as a species, that itself might be unlikely. But what will happen is that billions will die. Not millions. Billions. The work force for the planet will vanish in a few years of starvation, lack of water, and serious climate change. The people who would have farmed food to keep you alive? Dead. The people who would be maintaining clean water supplies? Dead. It's not like the world will collapse in one great big moment. It's a slow decline where the knowledge of how to run our complex society, how to grow our food and do the things we need to do, will be lost. Today, we have more knowledge than we've ever had before. More knowledge than anyone can safely hold in their head alone. Do you think when the experts in those field die through the tumultous bullshit that will happen that we'll just recover from losing their knowledge and expertise? No. We won't. It'll be slow, and it'll be filled with us clawing our way out of the pitt of starvation and thirst and some will survive, but humanity as a whole will be so harmed, and so damaged by this that just "coming back" from it won't happen.[/QUOTE] When shit gets so bad to a point that you're talking about everyone will be focused on that field of science that lets us survive meaning farming, water purification, etc. Knowledge in those fields will die last, with the last men. If humanity is going to survive we might lose knowledge in all other fields, but this field of knowledge will not be forgotten. I don't know what made you come to the conclusion that the people who know how to survive and who will be focused on surviving will be the first ones to die, and then everyone else will follow them.

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;48012395]I don't think corporations are actually keeping things down and shutting down innovation, I think it is just that it is less costly to change the current methods of producing energy than the alternatives for "green". When more "green" energy becomes more and more cost effective we will see more adaptation of the technology. Similar to how we saw electric cars 10 years ago, and how we see them today.[/QUOTE] This is just wrong though. We can make a better fuel than gasoline right now, it's called methanol, and it's pretty darn easy and profitable to make. Guess what? Almost all the cars on the road now can be reffitted to drive on methanol through purely software updates, or cheap addons to the cars themselves. Guess what? We've been able to do that since the 70's, and we haven't done it because oil companies shut it down. "I won't dignify your conspiracy theories" you might say, fair enough, it does sound like one. But, you can look at the extreme gas crisis of the 70's and see that we figured out how to make methanol, and we figured out how to even get in the pumps and get cars running on it to see that it wasn't a conspiracy, it was history. These are the kind of REPEATED decisions our companies, and our representatives make for us. Green alternatives are already viable, and have been for a while. But that would directly hurt the coffers of their competitors who currently hold all the power. [editline]20th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Silly Sil;48012416]When shit gets so bad to a point that you're talking about everyone will be focused on that field of science that lets us survive meaning farming, water purification, etc. Knowledge in those fields will die last, with the last men. If humanity is going to survive we might lose knowledge in all other fields, but this field of knowledge will not be forgotten. I don't know what made you come to the conclusion that the people who know how to survive and who will be focused on surviving will be the first ones to die, and then everyone else will follow them.[/QUOTE] I just think it's highly optimistic to think that the scientists involved in this will literally be immune to the effects of global starvation and world wide water shortages. Yes, we'll figure out methods to fix things and slow our decline. I'm sure of that. But do you think billions won't die? Straight up, how many people do you think would die in a global fuel, food, and water shortage? A prolonged one? That's also combined with global climate change and other weather issues? We've been needing to take action about these things for a while now. We're barely doing it.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48012243]How many of you just don't fucking get it? "HAH, they think we'll die out? NEVER!" Do you guys understand? Do you have any concept of what this means or do you just have a ball of fear in your stomach that you're pushing out and ignoring? When we reach a certain point of population, over-farming, over use of water, over use of land, it isn't that we'll die out as a species, that itself might be unlikely. But what will happen is that billions will die. Not millions. Billions. The work force for the planet will vanish in a few years of starvation, lack of water, and serious climate change. The people who would have farmed food to keep you alive? Dead. The people who would be maintaining clean water supplies? Dead. It's not like the world will collapse in one great big moment. It's a slow decline where the knowledge of how to run our complex society, how to grow our food and do the things we need to do, will be lost. Today, we have more knowledge than we've ever had before. More knowledge than anyone can safely hold in their head alone. Do you think when the experts in those field die through the tumultous bullshit that will happen that we'll just recover from losing their knowledge and expertise? No. We won't. It'll be slow, and it'll be filled with us clawing our way out of the pitt of starvation and thirst and some will survive, but humanity as a whole will be so harmed, and so damaged by this that just "coming back" from it won't happen.[/QUOTE] While I agree with mostly every point you make, this pessimism is part of the problem. I firmly believe that we, as a species, are fully capable of recognizing this pattern of slow decline and collectively finding some way to stop it, or at the very least delay the inevitable as much as possible. We have a window of opportunity to prevent further destruction to our race and our one habitable environment, and it's being slammed shut on our collective faces. If we can just focus our power on keeping that window open as long as we can, there's no reason to believe we can't possibly become far greater than we've ever imagined. Everything will eventually die out or be rendered unrecognizable, but that's no reason to not go out kicking and screaming. And what's to say something great can't rise out of the ashes of humanity if we don't succeed? This world is chaos, and even with all of the collected knowledge on this planet vanishing from the face of a mote of dust, who can truly say that we can't just start the cycle over again?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48012439]This is just wrong though. We can make a better fuel than gasoline right now, it's called methanol, and it's pretty darn easy and profitable to make. Guess what? Almost all the cars on the road now can be reffitted to drive on methanol through purely software updates, or cheap addons to the cars themselves. Guess what? We've been able to do that since the 70's, and we haven't done it because oil companies shut it down. "I won't dignify your conspiracy theories" you might say, fair enough, it does sound like one. But, you can look at the extreme gas crisis of the 70's and see that we figured out how to make methanol, and we figured out how to even get in the pumps and get cars running on it to see that it wasn't a conspiracy, it was history. These are the kind of REPEATED decisions our companies, and our representatives make for us. Green alternatives are already viable, and have been for a while. But that would directly hurt the coffers of their competitors who currently hold all the power. .[/QUOTE] The method to replace gasoline with a substitute is easy to make, I agree. Replacing the infrastructure for the globe into this method is very costly though, not just for first world countries but for developing and third world countries as well.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48012439]This is just wrong though. We can make a better fuel than gasoline right now, it's called methanol, and it's pretty darn easy and profitable to make. Guess what? Almost all the cars on the road now can be reffitted to drive on methanol through purely software updates, or cheap addons to the cars themselves. Guess what? We've been able to do that since the 70's, and we haven't done it because oil companies shut it down. "I won't dignify your conspiracy theories" you might say, fair enough, it does sound like one. But, you can look at the extreme gas crisis of the 70's and see that we figured out how to make methanol, and we figured out how to even get in the pumps and get cars running on it to see that it wasn't a conspiracy, it was history. These are the kind of REPEATED decisions our companies, and our representatives make for us. Green alternatives are already viable, and have been for a while. But that would directly hurt the coffers of their competitors who currently hold all the power. [editline]20th June 2015[/editline] I just think it's highly optimistic to think that the scientists involved in this will literally be immune to the effects of global starvation and world wide water shortages. Yes, we'll figure out methods to fix things and slow our decline. I'm sure of that. But do you think billions won't die? Straight up, how many people do you think would die in a global fuel, food, and water shortage? A prolonged one? That's also combined with global climate change and other weather issues? We've been needing to take action about these things for a while now. We're barely doing it.[/QUOTE] Methanol provides less energy per gram than petrol. It's also hilariously toxic, to the point where skin contact or inhalation of fumes causes blindness and then nerve damage. Methanol is not a good fuel just because it works mechanically. Around 8 grams is enough for the blindness to set in.

[QUOTE=mugofdoom;48012470]While I agree with mostly every point you make, this pessimism is part of the problem. I firmly believe that we, as a species, are fully capable of recognizing this pattern of slow decline and collectively finding some way to stop it, or at the very least delay the inevitable as much as possible.[/QUOTE] Oh I know I'm a part of the problem by being negative. But I'm not the actual problem. The actual problem, is that we aren't doing anything about this, and are unlikely to due to apathy. I want to do stuff. I'll do stuff. I'll help, I'll contribute, I'll work. But that's irrelavent because it's not about me, you, or a thousand people. It's about us, as a society, as huge massive corporations and governments and countries that need to do things. I'm surrounded by more apathy and ignorance than I am pessimism about this issue, and my negativity is not the issue. People NEED to realize how serious this is. [QUOTE]We have a window of opportunity to prevent further destruction to our race and our one habitable environment, and it's being slammed shut on our collective faces. If we can just focus our power on keeping that window open as long as we can, there's no reason to believe we can't possibly become far greater than we've ever imagined. Everything will eventually die out or be rendered unrecognizable, but that's no reason to not go out kicking and screaming.[/QUOTE] Who's slamming it in our faces? The negative doom sayers who are saying this WILL be bad, or the people who sit there and laugh and deny it, and deny the evidence of change? Who's the real issue here? That's right, ignorant and defiant people who have power. Not negative people who are genuinely scared for their own future in this world who DON'T have power. I live in Canada, and I voted against my current government both locally, provincially, and federally. What am I to do beyond engage in discussion and debate about this? We KNOW this is coming, and yet very few people are truly concerned about this, and we can't simply rely on politicians aging out because young people believe this shit too! [QUOTE]And what's to say something great can't rise out of the ashes of humanity if we don't succeed? This world is chaos, and even with all of the collected knowledge on this planet vanishing from the face of a mote of dust, who can truly say that we can't just start the cycle over again?[/QUOTE] We survived the worlds largest extinction event previously with just 2000 mating pairs of humans. We're here now. So yeah, sure, we can come back from it. Does that mean when people die of malnourishment and dehydration they should die knowing we'll make it out maybe? No. We need to START kicking and screaming. We're sitting here comatose, we're the lobster in a pot of water as the temperature rises. We're NOT kicking and screaming. We need to start doing that so we can realize that this is an issue so people with the power and ability to change things do so. [editline]20th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=capital;48012518]Methanol provides less energy per gram than petrol. It's also hilariously toxic, to the point where skin contact or inhalation of fumes causes blindness and then nerve damage. Methanol is not a good fuel just because it works mechanically. Around 8 grams is enough for the blindness to set in.[/QUOTE] I did not know that. There are plenty of alternatives to be found. We don't need to rely on oil is my basic point.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48012439]I just think it's highly optimistic to think that the scientists involved in this will literally be immune to the effects of global starvation and world wide water shortages. Yes, we'll figure out methods to fix things and slow our decline. I'm sure of that. But do you think billions won't die? Straight up, how many people do you think would die in a global fuel, food, and water shortage? A prolonged one? That's also combined with global climate change and other weather issues? We've been needing to take action about these things for a while now. We're barely doing it.[/QUOTE] Where the fuck did I say that they will literally be immune? Okay lets go through this step by step. Right now we have few scientist with the knowledge. As you say the changes come slowly. The situation gets worse little by little, year by year. The problem is noticed by more and more people. More and more people are concerned by it and interested in it and scared by it, so they start preparing. By the time we are dying off, this is going to be our main concern, yes? Almost everyone will be involved in it. Farming, purifying water and getting heat will be the main thing people will be focused on. That field of knowledge will die last, with the last men. The idea that the people who can farm and purify water will die first and their knowledge will be gone with them resulting in almost everyone else dying and the only few survivors being forced to reinvent the technology is completely upside down. That scenario would only work if nobody except those scientists would know about global starvation and world wide water shortages. It makes no sense. Is it really highly optimistic that people will notice that they are starving and start being invested in not fucking starving? I'm not saying there won't be a global fuel, food, and water shortage because we will find some magic fix so there's nothing to worry about. I'm just saying your scenario that the knowledge of surviving will die first is ridiculous.

[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;48012272]Makes you wonder, if we really do go extinct, what would the next "Human" be like in millions of years?[/QUOTE] Probably chimps. Chimps are the most likely unless we invented something like the Ooze from Ninja Turtles, some sort of retroviral goop that smashes key portions of human DNA into the genetic code of anything that gets exposed to it. (in which any animal that came in contact with said goop would become some kind of warped semi-sentient mutant) But that's not gonna happen, so it's still gonna be chimps or some of the other great apes. That is, if we ACTUALLY went extinct a'la Mary Shelley's The Last Man, rather than us returning to a time of isolated tribes or even bickering feudal cargo cults, under the thumb of the Priests of the Temples of Syrinx. Considering that there are still isolated tribes in the far untamed corners of the world, I doubt that primitive societies would be as heavily impacted by the Collapse, and there are individuals who excel in their survivalist skills. Individuals who could potentially have kids and pass on their knowledge to the following generations. So all in all, even if billions of humans died there would still be hope for the better adapted individuals to forget about the "silly whims" that brought the world so close to the grave, and start smaller societies that eventually grow back to kingdoms and empires over the millennia. And even then, the collapse can still be avoided with the right events and the right technologies.

We won't become extinct.. at least the "0.1%" won't. They're not sitting around on the Internet posting about it. They're busy consolidating the resources of the planet, while deciding what to do with everyone else that's no longer going to be productive for them. They're also putting out alarmist propaganda about CO2, sea level rise and overpopulation to get a head start on the next generation so that they don't produce more "useless eaters". Pollution and loss of diversity? Serious problem. Man made climate change? Serious trans-humanist propaganda aimed at getting the birth rate down so there aren't so many people consuming their resources. Simples.

[QUOTE=ridinmybike;48011255]As harsh and pessimistic as it is to say, it does seem like we're a cancer on this planet. What other species could cause a mass extinction? The only solution would be to try and cut out as much of the cancer as possible[/QUOTE] this is the type of shit i hate to see at the end of the day, every human's allegiances should be to humanity first, and the earth second the earth is our home for now, and of course we have to take good care of it, but once you start advocating our own removal for the sake of the earth, you've become a traitor to our species

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;48012581]Where the fuck did I say that they will literally be immune? Okay lets go through this step by step. Right now we have few scientist with the knowledge. As you say the changes come slowly. The situation gets worse little by little, year by year. The problem is noticed by more and more people. More and more people are concerned by it and interested in it and scared by it, so they start preparing. By the time we are dying off, this is going to be our main concern, yes? Almost everyone will be involved in it. Farming, purifying water and getting heat will be the main thing people will be focused on. That field of knowledge will die last, with the last men. The idea that the people who can farm and purify water will die first and their knowledge will be gone with them resulting in almost everyone else dying and the only few survivors being forced to reinvent the technology is completely upside down. That scenario would only work if nobody except those scientists would know about global starvation and world wide water shortages. It makes no sense. Is it really highly optimistic that people will notice that they are starving and start being invested in not fucking starving? I'm not saying there won't be a global fuel, food, and water shortage because we will find some magic fix so there's nothing to worry about. I'm just saying your scenario that the knowledge of surviving will die first is ridiculous.[/QUOTE] They won't die first but they'll still die quickly. Or the scientists and the wealthy and powerful will be the only survivors, point is, the common folk will die in the billions and that's a BIG fucking deal to me.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48012781]They won't die first but they'll still die quickly. Or the scientists and the wealthy and powerful will be the only survivors, point is, the common folk will die in the billions and that's a BIG fucking deal to me.[/QUOTE] Okay I don't object your vision of billions dying. That's certainly a possibility. Just saying, fearmongering like "all the people who know how to farm and get clean water will die and the rest of humanity will follow shortly after" is, well, bullshit. That kind of knowledge will die last, as the people with that knowledge will survive the longest. Besides before the lights go out, everyone will be scared enough to actually seek knowledge on the subject in hopes of surviving by themselves or in smaller groups. If humanity survives the scenario you are talking about we might lose all knowledge [I]except [/I]how to farm and get clean water and heat.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48012781]They won't die first but they'll still die quickly. Or the scientists and the wealthy and powerful will be the only survivors, point is, the common folk will die in the billions and that's a BIG fucking deal to me.[/QUOTE] That's not happening tomorrow. It's not happening in this century at the very least. For shit to go as bad as you're describing, it's gonna take a long time of doing fucking nothing at all, just sitting on our thumbs. Relax a bit dude. Plus, since we're talking huge scales, death of billions might just do us some good. And yeah, I realize that I'm talking about my descendants among everyone else. Overpopulation's not nice, and if in order to adapt and possibly even fix the problem it takes radical 'natural' balancing of population, that's gonna happen anyway.

[QUOTE=Blazedol;48011416]yeah I overreacted like the pussy I am :v: but seriously, hearing this shit horrifies me. It's not that i'm scared of dying, Hell give me a gun and I'll do it myself, it's just I don't want to be worried that my kids or my grandkids or whatever the fuck are going to suffocate to death from breathing the god damn air or something like that.[/QUOTE] Well, we are all going to die eventually. No ammount of immortality can save you, unless you become one with the universe or ascend into an ethereal form or something

Just remember a lot of research articles in many fields of science exagerate their findings to increase their funding.

[QUOTE=gudman;48012883]That's not happening tomorrow. It's not happening in this century at the very least. For shit to go as bad as you're describing, it's gonna take a long time of doing fucking nothing at all, just sitting on our thumbs. Relax a bit dude. Plus, since we're talking huge scales, death of billions might just do us some good. And yeah, I realize that I'm talking about my descendants among everyone else. Overpopulation's not nice, and if in order to adapt and possibly even fix the problem it takes radical 'natural' balancing of population, that's gonna happen anyway.[/QUOTE] A serious water crisis is likely to happen within 20 years. So no, I think it is very likely it is to happen this century. California is about to enter a "megadrought" era, it's almost impossible for us to reverse that now. And that's only one region. Mexico is facing a serious water crisis the country over. China will soon see a similar crisis. We are cloud seeding constantly without being exactly sure of its effects. There's some serious signs being dismissed if you think your life won't be affected by this.

[QUOTE=Blazedol;48009020]For the first time in a fucking decade, I'm crying right now with a taste of horror and disgust in the back of my throat. This is just... [I]fucked,[/I] man. Like, one of those things that makes you question if you're even awake.[/QUOTE] This post is going to be burned in my retinas for many years to come

[QUOTE=Sally;48013191]This post is going to be burned in my retinas for many years to come[/QUOTE] yeah, I know.

SMBC really does a good job at painting this picture of sensationalism like the article is doing [img_thumb]http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20090830.gif[/img_thumb]

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48013093]A serious water crisis is likely to happen within 20 years. So no, I think it is very likely it is to happen this century. California is about to enter a "megadrought" era, it's almost impossible for us to reverse that now. And that's only one region. Mexico is facing a serious water crisis the country over. China will soon see a similar crisis. We are cloud seeding constantly without being exactly sure of its effects. There's some serious signs being dismissed if you think your life won't be affected by this.[/QUOTE] My life sure as hell won't be affected by this, I don't live in Mexico or California, there's plenty of water where I'm sitting, we're [b]under[/b]populated here and most of resources are [b]under[/b]developed. But that's not the point - water crisis (minor one, AFAIK, nothing CATASTROPHIC) isn't going to cause BILLIONS of deaths, and megadrought is a slow-developing event. That sort of thing won't affect progress and development in any serious way - not in the nearest future. You're talking about BILLIONS of deaths, and that's not happening for at least another hundred years. I'm not saying "forget it", I'm saying relax a bit, you seem to be stressing too much over it.

Defeatism is what will kill us, we will work against it as we have worked against predators and diseases in the past, and may god help us if we fail.

[QUOTE=Black;48013417]Defeatism is what will kill us, we will work against it as we have worked against predators and diseases in the past, and may god help us if we fail.[/QUOTE] Selfishness and insanity will kill us. We have people in positions of power that believe in the rapture, believing that we can pollute as much as we want since the worlds gonna end anyway. [url]http://religiondispatches.org/does-end-time-belief-really-cause-climate-change-apathy/[/url]

[QUOTE=Xonax;48009063]While this sucks, it doesn't scare me as much as it used to since I know we are in this together.[/QUOTE] I'm eating you first during The Mass Starvation period.

[QUOTE=Inspector Jones;48013544]I'm eating you first during The Mass Starvation period.[/QUOTE] we better split him up among us. make him last. regardless of funny jokes, this is a scary prospect to me. an "end" to the world isn't something i'd want to go out with. it's unfortunate that we have no way to combat this unless the entire world suddenly had a change of heart simultaneously to work together and fix it.

Having been stressed about this all day; all i can say is what makes me feel good is do your own part encourage others too and just hope that we can stop this. We aren't sure what'll happen but you just have to put on a brave face and do what you can. Surrendering to it in the face of something like this is understandable but it won't do anyone anygood nor will sticking our heads in the sand going "nope this won't happen to me" will ethier; both are irresponsible actions.

[QUOTE=ridinmybike;48011255]As harsh and pessimistic as it is to say, it does seem like we're a cancer on this planet.[/QUOTE] It's always the misanthropes who refer to other human beings as "cancer".

meh