UK education sixth in global ranking, Angry Birds nation takes first place - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Murkat;38613237]so everyone's got worse education than this [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5fQZhv0poU[/media][/QUOTE] Because mentally challenged people count for education statistics

our education is good and maybe even the best in the world, yeah sure, too bad it wasn't when our jurists and judges went to school because our courts are full of idiots who can't see the difference between a child murderer and a crooked CEO, and let's not even talk about the politicians

[QUOTE=Swilly;38613080]Waiting For Superman opened my eyes up to the issues facing the US System. And while it pains me to say it, the Teacher's Union needs to be slapped in the face.[/QUOTE] That was such a good documentary.

[QUOTE=Erfly;38613409]That was such a good documentary.[/QUOTE] It scared me more than anything else. A union shouldn't have that much power, ever.

[QUOTE=jertan;38612380]depressing how low the us is[/QUOTE] I actually thought it might be worse than that.

im a complete utter dumbfuck who doesn't check his facts

[QUOTE=Swilly;38613473]It scared me more than anything else. A union shouldn't have that much power, ever.[/QUOTE] but the government should?

[QUOTE=yawmwen;38613670]but the government should?[/QUOTE] The corporations should? The militias should? The private industry should? If you're going to give me a loaded question, I'll give you three.

[QUOTE=Swilly;38613706]The corporations should? The militias should? The private industry should? If you're going to give me a loaded question, I'll give you three.[/QUOTE] well education has to be organized by someone. a bought off government isn't high on my list of groups to organize the system that gives people the power to create their world, although it is certainly a step above a purely privatized system. ideally it should be cooperation between unions and the public who is serviced by the schools. the "government"(state and federal government) should really only be forking over the cash and ensuring that human rights are being acknowledged. other than that i see no place for a group of people who are only semi-accountable to anyone besides special interests running a school.

with the amount of bitching about UK's education I'm surprised it's that high

[QUOTE=yawmwen;38613759]well education has to be organized by someone. a bought off government isn't high on my list of groups to organize the system that gives people the power to create their world, although it is certainly a step above a purely privatized system. ideally it should be cooperation between unions and the public who is serviced by the schools. the "government"(state and federal government) should really only be forking over the cash and ensuring that human rights are being acknowledged. other than that i see no place for a group of people who are only semi-accountable to anyone besides special interests running a school.[/QUOTE] The problem is that I don't see it working like that, especially since there is no universal or codified education system. That's truely what we need, because its not a level playing field. I also don't trust private enterprise nearly as much as I trust government institutions who NEED a highly educated base to keep most of its facilities running. Corporations and private entities can just go ahead and out source the work.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;38613670]but the government should?[/QUOTE] yes or a company anything but a union

[QUOTE=Swilly;38613840]The problem is that I don't see it working like that, especially since there is no universal or codified education system. That's truely what we need, because its not a level playing field.[/QUOTE] a universal education system decided by whom? who decides what's important to teach out children? who decides what's important to feed out children? certainly specific criteria should be met. for example, children should be taught a wide variety of social, political, and economic views to help inform their knowledge of the world. children should also not be subjected to bullying, abuse, poor diet, or neglect while at school. but most of the decisions regarding curriculum should be decided by teachers, and approved by the society that is affected by the teacher's choices. it shouldn't be up to government or ceo's to decide how schools should provide their service to the public

[QUOTE=yawmwen;38613909]a universal education system decided by whom? who decides what's important to teach out children? who decides what's important to feed out children? certainly specific criteria should be met. for example, children should be taught a wide variety of social, political, and economic views to help inform their knowledge of the world. children should also not be subjected to bullying, abuse, poor diet, or neglect while at school. but most of the decisions regarding curriculum should be decided by teachers, and approved by the society that is affected by the teacher's choices. it shouldn't be up to government or ceo's to decide how schools should provide their service to the public[/QUOTE] But CEOs and Governments have the power to ignore them. However, we can hold Governments accountable which could then hold corporations accountable. And the educational system curriculum should be decided by scientists of all branches, not by society and not by a bureaucracy.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;38613909]but most of the decisions regarding curriculum should be decided by teachers, and approved by the society that is affected by the teacher's choices. it shouldn't be up to government or ceo's to decide how schools should provide their service to the public[/QUOTE] that's like saying a restaurant ought to be run by chefs

You need to read [I]The End of Education[/I] by Postman, Yawman.

[QUOTE=Swilly;38613930]But CEOs and Governments have the power to ignore them. However, we can hold Governments accountable which could then hold corporations accountable.[/QUOTE] but our governments are more accountable to corporate interests then they are public interests. already we have collusion between the "public" sector and private sector in schools and it has cost children a nutritious diet. physical education facilities have to be sponsored by the private sector, putting the physical health education of students at the mercy of the private sector. community colleges, the only kind of school you can go to without racking up enormous debt, is little more than a vocational training facility designed to make you a semi-skilled worker for a corporate entity. our government has show that it isnt very accountable. [QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;38613933]that's like saying a restaurant ought to be run by chefs[/QUOTE] by the chefs, by the servers, by the receptionist. basically if you work to provide the service you should own the service you are providing.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;38613992]by the chefs, by the servers, by the receptionist.[/quote] what about people that are actually competent in running things? you know, like a managing director? did the bit in econ 101 about division of labor fly right over your head? [quote]basically if you work to provide the service you should own the service you are providing.[/QUOTE] why

[QUOTE=yawmwen;38613992]but our governments are more accountable to corporate interests then they are public interests. already we have collusion between the "public" sector and private sector in schools and it has cost children a nutritious diet. physical education facilities have to be sponsored by the private sector, putting the physical health education of students at the mercy of the private sector. community colleges, the only kind of school you can go to without racking up enormous debt, is little more than a vocational training facility designed to make you a semi-skilled worker for a corporate entity. our government has show that it isnt very accountable. [/QUOTE] Our government also has to deal with a populous where a fourth can't read beyond the 8th grade level. The other 3/4ths barely know how our government works. They also expect fast results from a system that is designed to be incredibly slow. And its actually incredibly accountable, the majority of Americans just don't care.

Poland should be at the very bottom of EU countries.

[QUOTE=proch;38614090]Poland should be at the very bottom of EU countries.[/QUOTE] poland is the poland of europe

Seriously, I went to school there and in Germany. The latter was like, five times better.

[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;38614013]what about people that are actually competent in running things? you know, like a managing director? did the bit in econ 101 about division of labor fly right over your head?[/quote] if you dont produce you have no business telling people how to produce unless the producers give you consent. [quote]why[/QUOTE] because it's the moral way to do it. why is it that democracy and self-determination end at the factory threshold? you spend a large portion of your day at work, you should have control over that part of your life like all other parts of your life. [QUOTE=Swilly;38614014]Our government also has to deal with a populous where a fourth can't read beyond the 8th grade level. The other 3/4ths barely know how our government works. They also expect fast results from a system that is designed to be incredibly slow. And its actually incredibly accountable, the majority of Americans just don't care.[/QUOTE] do you think these are simple coincidences? i would bargain that most of these problems stem from the fact that certain institutions benefit greatly from our ignorance.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;38614119] do you think these are simple coincidences? i would bargain that most of these problems stem from the fact that certain institutions benefit greatly from our ignorance.[/QUOTE] Then fight the cause, not the effect. Going after the government is basically shoveling while its snowing.

[QUOTE=Swilly;38614169]Then fight the cause, not the effect. Going after the government is basically shoveling while its snowing.[/QUOTE] well the cause is unaccountable and arbitrary power structures. i endorse the downsizing of any unaccountable and arbitrary power structure including government and capitalism.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;38614185]well the cause is unaccountable and arbitrary power structures. i endorse the downsizing of any unaccountable and arbitrary power structure including government and capitalism.[/QUOTE] I do not, because our most prosperous times were when our government was largest. And right now it is at its smallest and shrinking and there is almost no accountability. Whether that is a correlation only or actual causation is beyond my realm of pondering.

USA Is lower than I thought it would be. Huh.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;38614119]if you dont produce you have no business telling people how to produce unless the producers give you consent.[/quote] but managers do produce. they offer their expertise in organising other people's work in order to maximize efficiency and/or profit, in exchange for money. if you cannot grasp the basic fact that wealth production doesn't have to be tied to an actual concrete object then I don't think you have much business debating economics. [quote]because it's the moral way to do it. why is it that democracy and self-determination end at the factory threshold? you spend a large portion of your day at work, you should have control over that part of your life like all other parts of your life.[/quote] .. but I don't believe in democracy and self-determination? I'll flip it around - why does the efficiency with which managers run companies stop at the factory threshold? you spend a large portion of your life outside of work, why should the rest of the world be so incompetently managed compared to private business?

I had to take this test last year, as I recall the entire test felt like a joke it was all rather simple the test was primarily composed of common knowledge questions that I didn't find that difficult.

[QUOTE=Swilly;38614205]I do not, because our most prosperous times were when our government was largest. And right now its, at its smallest and shrinking and there is almost no accountability. Whether that is a correlation only or actual causation is beyond my realm of pondering.[/QUOTE] the ussr wasnt doing very good when government was at its largest. the point is that you cant simply say government seemed to work well one time so that's the best way to do it. sometimes government benefits people and sometimes it doesnt, for varying reasons(that aren't all attributable to government in the first place). it's like me saying "well valve does really well and treats its employees well therefore capitalism cannot be inherently flawed as a system of economic organization". i would rather have society determine its own prosperity and organize itself rather than having someone else organize it for them anyways. [editline]27th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;38614238]but managers do produce. they offer their expertise in organising other people's work in order to maximize efficiency and/or profit, in exchange for money. if you cannot grasp the basic fact that wealth production doesn't have to be tied to an actual concrete object then I don't think you have much business debating economics.[/QUOTE] well i dont believe that your version of economic distribution is moral. [quote].. but I don't believe in democracy and self-determination? I'll flip it around - why does the efficiency with which managers run companies stop at the factory threshold? you spend a large portion of your life outside of work, why should the rest of the world be so incompetently managed compared to private business?[/quote] because efficiency is but a means to achieve an end goal(happiness). if efficiency comes at the cost of worker happiness you are defeating the point of efficiency in the first place.