Neo-Nazis tried to crash a welcome party for migrants and refugees in Germany

[Tamschi]

[QUOTE=EdvardSchnitz;48627429]I don't think he was saying every refugee is an economic migrant, but a good number of economic migrants are pretending to be refugees.

This is an issue needs to quickly solve, it is good to accept refugees, but to let an endless amount of enomic migrants come into nations [B]almost full[/B]...[/QUOTE] [emphasis mine]

I wonder if this is actually going to be a long-term problem for Germany.
We have quite a bit of trouble with [URL="http://www.indexmundi.com/germany/age_structure.html"]an ageing population here[/URL], so it's expected that in a few years there's going to be a lack of employees in most areas.
Germany's population is also expected to go down a lot in total due to this effect.

Only about 1% of Germany's economy relies on local natural resources, which means that at least in that regard the main economies are uncapped.
We also have regulations in place that prevent jobs with too low salaries for the most part, so I doubt there'd be a competition issue of that nature with native workers.

So by that measure we aren't really "almost full" by any means, but there are of course temporary caps that are an issue here:

- First there currently aren't enough homes available to refugees.
We do seem to have quite a few empty ones though, so there needs to be a way to combine the two issues. Alternatively the state could start funding buildings with rent caps again, like previously.

- The bureaucracy is quite slow in regards to refugees, so there is a long time until they are either sent back or can start working.
The politicians are slowly being pressured into optimising that issue, but I'm not sure how much has been done so far.
[editline]edit[/editline] They can start working once they've been here for three months now. I suspect this was somewhat recently patched.

- Advanced qualifications may not be recognised, barring people from working in their professions.
It makes sense for certain issues, but for others it would make a lot of sense to let people who have otherwise already learned a job get back to it a bit more easily.
Outside of freelance crafting (which is quite heavily regulated) and services with high bars due to security requirements (where the full "standardised" education is necessary), it's likely not that much of a problem though.

So overall in the long term immigration is quite good for this country even if it happens in larger numbers, as far as I can tell (and read on Spiegel Online, but that's admittedly a little left. It should still have a better grasp on the situation than what you can read in the US though).

Merkel's "mom" image seems to be getting a bit out of hand though :v:
[URL="http://www.n-tv.de/politik/Warum-Fluechtende-nach-Deutschland-wollen-article15875576.html"]According to n-t[/URL][URL="https://archive.is/JXx9H"]v[/URL] there are now poems praising her as "compassionate mother" going around among refugees from Syria.

[Fourier]

This happened 2 days ago in France..

[url]https://www.facebook.com/100009829652888/videos/161810064156648/[/url]

[Tamschi]

[QUOTE=awcmon;48627737]it's honestly kinda disgusting how they choose and pick where they go

beggars can't be choosers, you can't look a gift horse in the mouth, etc

they complain about european nations not being "good enough" and not catering enough to them and some shit and want to choose where to go? like what

i come from a refugee family myself

my family took the first option they could get because anything was better than before

for that reason we're scattered across a dozen countries today

but we're happy because we're safe and that's all that matters in the end[/QUOTE]

It's a bit more complicated it seems: The chance to be deported from Germany is, at least seemingly, far lower than elsewhere, and many eastern-European countries appear to not want to host refugees at all. There's also the issue of somewhat misleading reporting making this country [I]vastly[/I] more attractive than the surrounding ones (like a leaked instruction saying Syrian refugees would [I]currently in practice mostly[/I] not be deported to other EU-countries anymore). The reputations and name recognition of EU countries are in part also [I]very[/I] different even though they are in close proximity, so it makes sense a lot of people would go directly for the best deal in a bad situation (which is a problem. I hope the politicians find a way to balance this initial impact).

[editline]6th September 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=Fourier;48627805]This happened 2 days ago in France..

[url]https://www.facebook.com/100009829652888/videos/161810064156648/[/url][/QUOTE]

This needs [B]a lot[/B] of context. [URL="https://translate.google.com/#auto/en/Zauwa%C5%BCyli%C5%9Bcie%20%C5%BCe%20jak%20zwykli%20obywatele%20robia%20np.%20Manifestacje%20%2C%20policji%20jest%20jak%20mr%C3%B3wek%20wszedzie%20ich%20pe%C5%82no%20!!%20Gdy%20odbywaj%C4%85%20sie%20mecze%20policja%20r%C3%B3wnie%C5%BC%20jest%20uzbrojona%20a%C5%BC%20po%20z%C4%99by%20i%20pilnuje%20porz%C4%85dku%20i%20kiboli%20!!%20Ale%20gdy%20muzu%C5%82manie%20demoluj%C4%85%20ulice%20%2C%20dewastuj%C4%85%20samochody%20i%20sklepy%20to%20kurw***%20nie%20ma%20nikogo%20!!!%20Ja%20sie%20pytam%20gdzie%20jest%20policja%20gdzie%20kurw***%20sa%20wojska%20%3F%20Dlaczego%20nikt%20z%20tym%20nic%20nie%20robi%20%3F%20Ja%20wiem%20%C5%BCe%20kto%C5%9B%20na%20tym%20%C5%82adnie%20zarabia%20ale%20do%20chu***%20pana%20tu%20chodzi%20o%20bezpiecze%C5%84stwo%20obywateli%20!!!%20To%20ju%C5%BC%20nie%20jest%20normalne%20tu%20potrzeba%20dzia%C5%82a%C5%84%20tu%20potrzeba%20ostrej%20amunicji%20by%20zrobi%C4%87%20porz%C4%85dek%20!!%20Bo%20albo%20my%20wyt%C4%99pimy%20ten%20syf%20albo%20ten%20syf%20ju%C5%BC%20wkr%C3%B3tce%20wyt%C4%99pi%20nas%20bia%C5%82ych%20i%20staniemy%20sie%20niewolnikami%20we%20w%C5%82asnych%20Krajach%20!!!%0A%28%20filmik%20..%20Muzu%C5%82manie%20na%20ulicach%20Francji%20%29"]The video description certainly is useless in that regard[/URL] [URL="https://archive.is/p6RVz"]:glare:[/URL]

Google translate: [quote]Have you noticed that when ordinary citizens are doing such. The demonstrations, the police is like ants everywhere full of them !! When the matches take place, the police also armed to the teeth and makes sure the order and kiboli !! But when Muslims demolish streets, cars and shops devastate the fuck *** no one !!! I ask where is the police where troops are whores ***? Why did none of this does anything? I know that someone in this nicely earns but chu *** you here in terms of security of the citizens !!! This is not normal there need for action here live ammunition need to make the order !! Because either we wytępimy this shit or that shit soon will destroy us white and will become slaves in their own country !!!
(Video .. Muslims in the streets of France)[/quote]

[editline]edit[/editline] I can't find any news whatsoever about this but it's clearly in Paris since there's an RATP van being demolished. From that I think it's highly likely that at least the date is completely wrong.

[Arrows]

It doesn't matter if your a homeless, jobless, rich or poor as long as you are white and are anti mass immigration you will be branded racist and a neo nazi by the leftist establishment.

I don't know what the economic situation is in Germany but the in UK we should not be taking in any more migrants and should be cutting back on foreign aid as it's just been announced that thousands of cancer patients now and in the future will suffer because the NHS will no longer provide funding for common drugs, so essentially condemning people to die as funding goes elsewhere.

Unemployment is high, homelessness is high and we have extreme economic and social issues as well as failure of current migrants to intergrate, how many much the UK\europe take before enough is enough?

[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/11844314/Thousands-of-cancer-patients-to-be-denied-treatment.html[/url]

[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/nhs-cuts-to-drugs-fund-mean-thousands-of-cancer-patients-in-england-will-be-denied-lifeextending-treatments-10487245.html[/url]

[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3222588/Thousands-cancer-patients-denied-life-extending-drugs-NHS-funding-cuts.html[/url]

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34153136[/url]

[QUOTE]Patients affected
Blood cancer - 1,759 patients
Breast cancer - 986 patients
Bowel cancer - 845 patients
Prostate cancer - 601 patients
Upper gastrointestinal cancer - 549 patients
Urological cancer - 376 patients
Brain and central nervous system - 229 patients
Gynaecological cancer - 188 patients[/QUOTE]

[CatFodder]

[QUOTE=Kasper9384;48627432]They are human beings with much easier countries to migrate to if their life is really the main concern. I fully support taking care of as many human beings as possible but at what cost? Wouldn't it be better to [b]build and stabilize the Middle East[/b] instead of cramming as many people into Europe as possible with tensions as high as they already are?[/QUOTE]

That's a task that will take decades, if it's possible at all. The refugees need help [i]now[/i].

[Kasper9384]

[QUOTE=CatFodder;48628068]That's a task that will take decades, if it's possible at all. The refugees need help [i]now[/i].[/QUOTE]

People have lived for hundreds of thousands of years without first world amenities. We need to take care of ourselves, collectively, and THEN help everyone else.

[itisjuly]

[QUOTE=Kasper9384;48628077]People have lived for hundreds of thousands of years without first world amenities. We need to take care of ourselves, collectively, and THEN help everyone else.[/QUOTE]
And that's why we should give refugees as much help as we can, even if it causes our own living standards to fall. I don't mind giving up most of my luxuries if it means helping thousands.

[Complifused]

[QUOTE=itisjuly;48628128]And that's why we should give refugees as much help as we can, even if it causes our own living standards to fall. I don't mind giving up most of my luxuries if it means helping thousands.[/QUOTE]

Speak for yourself

[greasemunky]

[QUOTE=Kasper9384;48628077]People have lived for hundreds of thousands of years without first world amenities. We need to take care of ourselves, collectively, and THEN help everyone else.[/QUOTE]

It's mine mine, all mine!

No seriously this is a terrible line of thinking, don't act like our problems are equivalent to theirs and maybe try showing some empathy? Just because you can live like that doesn't mean it's desirable to.

[Mr. Someguy]

[QUOTE=Kasper9384;48627432]Wouldn't it be better to build and stabilize the Middle East instead of cramming as many people into Europe as possible with tensions as high as they already are?[/QUOTE]

We tried that for 10 years, they resisted all along the way and tore it down as soon as we left.

[NoOneKnowsMe]

[QUOTE=Kasper9384;48628077]People have lived for hundreds of thousands of years without first world amenities. We need to take care of ourselves, collectively, and THEN help everyone else.[/QUOTE]

That's very short sighted thinking. They wouldn't come to other countries in the first place if their economic status was okay. So we also have to help others too.

[Ager]

What I want to see, in order to gain some perspective, is numbers.

In Europe, how many immigrants are long-term unemployed? What are the criminality rates among the foreign population? How many of them obtain a degree? How sustainable is it to take in thousands of people with no job, no domicile?

I wanna know whose opinion is closer to the truth; the xenophobic nationalists or the limpdick leftists.

[Cinnamonbun]

While I do feel bad for any refugee, how the fuck are you guys going to deal with 800,000 of them? Especially ones that come from a completely different culture, and I guarantee there will be some bad apples in that 800,000 that will definitely try and fuck things up.

For all the people in this thread calling people heartless because they don't want a shit ton of immigrants leaking into Europe, what the fuck would you guys do?

I am okay with immigration/refugees, but this many at one time is way too much to handle.

[editline]6th September 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=Ager O'Eggers;48628192]What I want to see, in order to gain some perspective, is numbers.

In Europe, how many immigrants are long-term unemployed? What are the criminality rates among the foreign population? How many of them obtain a degree?

I wanna know whose opinion is closer to the truth; the xenophobic nationalists or the limpdick leftists.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I agree, you guys need to find out those rates. Because you don't want 1/8th of 800,000 refugees being bad apples.

[Silly Sil]

"All those immigrants are poor war refugees who fled from certain death and the closest stable region they can go is Germany. This has nothing to do with money or benefits."
Give me a fucking break.

[Kommodore]

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;48628161]We tried that for 10 years, they resisted all along the way and tore it down as soon as we left.[/QUOTE]

wow

[editline]6th September 2015[/editline]

boy do you have that backwards

[Tamschi]

I think I found out [URL="http://www.n-tv.de/politik/Warum-Fluechtende-nach-Deutschland-wollen-article15875576.html"]why people are trying to get into Germany instead of Austri[/URL][URL="https://archive.is/JXx9H"]a[/URL]:

- Germany is more than twice as likely to recognise applications for refuge (from Syria in 2013, 95% vs. 45%).
- Germany gives more money during the application process above necessities (143€ vs. 40€ for singles).
- Germany's joblessness rate is at 6%, which is a two-decade low. (Austria's just grew to 9.2%.)
- Refugees can start working here three months into their application (with priority given to EU-citizens though), while in Austria repeated permits for limited work areas are given out.
- Probably most importantly: Many of them just don't know Austria exists.

On a related note: [URL="https://archive.is/vIVid#selection-1667.0-1679.426"]Austria is starting to undo the emergency measures[/URL] allowing refugees to travel from Hungary to Germany.
I assume this means they'll start stopping progressively more of them as they prepare housing measures.

[URL="https://archive.is/vIVid#selection-1753.0-1769.160"]Germany is providing interest-free loans to cities for creating refugee homes[/URL] (over ten years, 300M€ total). This is expected to provide room for up to 30.000 people.

(via [URL="http://www.focus.de/politik/ausland/fluechtlingskrise-im-news-ticker-csu-kritisiert-merkels-entscheidung-fuer-fluechtlingsaufnahme_id_4926933.html"]this ticker[/URL])

[Kommodore]

Guys have you maybe considered that they want to go to Germany because they don't want to live in camps, they don't want to live in countries where unemployment is an issue for even for citizens? If they decide to go anywhere at all, why not go the distance, why not give their children and their families the best possible chance? Is that honestly so hard to understand?

Like I know it's nothing new that people are upset and condescending about immigration but I can only count humanity's lucky stars that the people in charge at the very least recognize that this is a humanitarian disaster and a question of human dignity, otherwise I'd honestly be tempted to say we've learned fuckall from our mistakes. You reap what you sow.

[Killuah]

[QUOTE=Jame's;48627189]Because they aren't refugees, they're economic migrants. Like the Father of that child who washed up on the beach, they lived in turkey fine for 3 years prior but he wanted more money and free dental care.

This whole situation is a fucking joke, the only reason people are so welcoming to them is because it makes them feel good inside.[/QUOTE]

Imagine thinking that it's bad to feel good about helping people.
What a miserable person.

[editline]6th September 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=Ager O'Eggers;48628192]What I want to see, in order to gain some perspective, is numbers.

In Europe, how many immigrants are long-term unemployed? What are the criminality rates among the foreign population? How many of them obtain a degree? How sustainable is it to take in thousands of people with no job, no domicile?

I wanna know whose opinion is closer to the truth; the xenophobic nationalists or the limpdick leftists.[/QUOTE]

Less long term, higher criminality. More of them have a degree already than Germans.

[editline]6th September 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;48628260]"All those immigrants are poor war refugees who fled from certain death and the closest stable region they can go is Germany. This has nothing to do with money or benefits."
Give me a fucking break.[/QUOTE]

Says noone ever. The refusal rate for refugees from the Balkan is 100% right now.

[James]

[QUOTE=Killuah;48628358]Imagine thinking that it's bad to feel good about helping people.
What a miserable person.[/QUOTE]

Helping people only to feel good is a bad reason to help someone. A better reason would be an empathy for their situation, but helping for the sake of making your own self feel better is a bit wrong. It's the difference between being selfish and selfless.

[Killuah]

[QUOTE=EdvardSchnitz;48627429]I don't think he was saying every refugee is an economic migrant, but a good number of economic migrants are pretending to be refugees.

This is an issue needs to quickly solve, it is good to accept refugees, but to let an endless amount of enomic migrants come into nations almost full...[/QUOTE]

Those "enomic" migrants are heavily needed because our socety is so overaged and many of them already have a degree.
I'm helping in a camp of about 600 people in my town and there are SEVERAL people who are academics, teachers, doctors, technicians and so on and so on.
Because those are the ones that make the journey.

Unlike in the 70s when Germany important dumb no-goods for cheap labor the situation is different.

[editline]6th September 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=James xX;48628384]Helping people only to feel good is a bad reason to help someone. A better reason would be an empathy for their situation, but helping for the sake of making your own self feel better is a bit wrong. It's the difference between being selfish and selfless.[/QUOTE]

No the difference is :

sitting on your ass posting philosophic treaties on the idealistic and right reasoning on a gaming forum

and

going out there and do something

[Doom64hunter]

[QUOTE=Kommodore;48628329]Guys have you maybe considered that they want to go to Germany because they don't want to live in camps, they don't want to live in countries where unemployment is an issue for even for citizens? If they decide to go anywhere at all, why not go the distance, why not give their children and their families the best possible chance? Is that honestly so hard to understand?
[/QUOTE]

No it's not hard to understand but it makes the whole Dublin regulation pointless if nothing is done about it. Everyone wants to go to Germany, and nowhere else, they know the system exists and as such go out of their way to avoid registration in other countries.
And unemployment will likely become a bigger issue in Germany as well if they keep receiving the overwhelming majority of refugees/immigrants.

Edit: So Germany heavily needs the workforce yet has an unemployment rate of over 6%? I wonder how you achieve that.

[James]

[QUOTE=Killuah;48628411]
No the difference is :

sitting on your ass posting philosophic treaties on the idealistic and right reasoning on a gaming forum

and

going out there and do something[/QUOTE]

The reason you do something changes whether or not you do said thing? That's news to me. My point was that helping people for the right reason will ensure they get the help they need. What happens to these people once the politicians feel good enough about themselves? What would happen to the refugees if the politicians really cared instead?

[swebonny]

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;48627162]I'm still confused as to why the refugees have to goto Germany over just going to their neighbors. Can someone please explain why they cannot just goto Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, and Jordan?[/QUOTE]

They are. Lebanon and Jordan has tiny populations, refugees account for like 25-30% of their country now.

[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3843429/ShareX/2015/09/2015-09-07_00-13-43.png[/IMG]

[editline]6th September 2015[/editline]

A lot of aid is given out to them, Germany isn't doing this alone:

[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3843429/ShareX/2015/09/2015-09-07_00-16-08.png[/IMG]

And this is only refugees from the Syrian civil war:
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War[/url]

[HumanAbyss]

[QUOTE=James xX;48628452]The reason you do something changes whether or not you do said thing? That's news to me. My point was that helping people for the right reason will ensure they get the help they need. What happens to these people once the politicians feel good enough about themselves? What would happen to the refugees if the politicians really cared instead?[/QUOTE]

People are going to attack you for this, but you're pretty much right.

A recent analysis of Canada's international refugee and charity efforts(We're apparently the largest country for charity donations world wide per capita) showed that the refugee limits after any large devastating natural or otherwise disaster peaked the year after, and steadily began to decline afterwards, even if the event was still going on, or still in need of help. The government limits always fall back down when it comes right down to it.

[Kommodore]

[QUOTE=Swebonny;48628467]They are. Lebanon and Jordan has tiny populations, refugees account for like 25-30% of their country now. [/QUOTE]

bearing in mind also that running a refugee camp is done at enormous risk given the lack of foreknowledge about how long they'll have to be maintained and the history of refugee camps gradually becoming permanent slums on-site or elsewhere

[TornadoAP]

[QUOTE=Arrows;48628041]It doesn't matter if your a homeless, jobless, rich or poor as long as you are white and are anti mass immigration you will be branded racist and a neo nazi by the leftist establishment.

I don't know what the economic situation is in Germany but the in UK we should not be taking in any more migrants and should be cutting back on foreign aid as it's just been announced that thousands of cancer patients now and in the future will suffer because the NHS will no longer provide funding for common drugs, so essentially condemning people to die as funding goes elsewhere.

Unemployment is high, homelessness is high and we have extreme economic and social issues as well as failure of current migrants to intergrate, how many much the UK\europe take before enough is enough?

[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/11844314/Thousands-of-cancer-patients-to-be-denied-treatment.html[/url]

[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/nhs-cuts-to-drugs-fund-mean-thousands-of-cancer-patients-in-england-will-be-denied-lifeextending-treatments-10487245.html[/url]

[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3222588/Thousands-cancer-patients-denied-life-extending-drugs-NHS-funding-cuts.html[/url]

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34153136[/url][/QUOTE]

You guys have budget problems way fucking worse than sending some foreign aid to others.

[Silly Sil]

[QUOTE=Killuah;48628358]Says noone ever. The refusal rate for refugees from the Balkan is 100% right now.[/QUOTE]
You sure no one ever?
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;48627747][QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;48627625] Turkey has offered support, Israel offers support, Jordan has several refugee camps, Lebanon offers sanctuary. Why go further then these countries?[/QUOTE]because the region is still unstable and they won't have nearly as much opportunities for a better life as they would in a developed country? [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kommodore;48628329]Guys have you maybe considered that they want to go to Germany because they don't want to live in camps, they don't want to live in countries where unemployment is an issue for even for citizens? If they decide to go anywhere at all, why not go the distance, why not give their children and their families the best possible chance? Is that honestly so hard to understand?

Like I know it's nothing new that people are upset and condescending about immigration but I can only count humanity's lucky stars that the people in charge at the very least recognize that this is a humanitarian disaster and a question of human dignity, otherwise I'd honestly be tempted to say we've learned fuckall from our mistakes. You reap what you sow.[/QUOTE]
You people are really fucking nuts. Do you really think that people saw tanks outside their window, then started up their computers, started up google and checked unemployment rates of the EU countries, refusal rate, etc and decided where to go? That's the first thing you do when you flee for your life from a warzone?
Give me a fucking break.

[Kommodore]

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;48628495]You sure no one ever?

You people are really fucking nuts. Do you really think that people saw tanks outside their window, then started up their computers, started up google and checked unemployment rates of the EU countries, refusal rate, etc and decided where to go? That's the first thing you do when you flee for your life from a warzone?
Give me a fucking break.[/QUOTE]

yeah they paid smugglers to get them to europe for no reason at all, they do things without any cause or justification whatsoever, that makes loads of sense and it's us who are crazy

[editline]6th September 2015[/editline]

surely there's no way word of mouth could have told them that germany was the best place to go. that would be insane.

[Killuah]

[QUOTE=James xX;48628452]The reason you do something changes whether or not you do said thing? That's news to me. My point was that helping people for the right reason will ensure they get the help they need. What happens to these people once the politicians feel good enough about themselves? What would happen to the refugees if the politicians really cared instead?[/QUOTE]

This argumentation is futile. The "what if people stopped" argument isn't one at all because it can be used against anything and thus against nothing.
"what if polititians stopped caring"

It's not important for whatever reason people are helping. It's help after all.
If people need a sense of self importance and feeling good about the help, so be it. They are helping, they are feeling good about it. Win-win.

Your super idealistic "but people need to help for the RIGHT reason" view isn't helping anyone and it's also far from reality.

So get out there and help and donate in case you care.
You don't have to feel good about it if you don't want to.

[HumanAbyss]

[QUOTE=Kommodore;48628527]yeah they paid smugglers to get them to europe for no reason at all, they do things without any cause or justification whatsoever, that makes loads of sense and it's us who are crazy

[editline]6th September 2015[/editline]

surely there's no way word of mouth could have told them that germany was the best place to go. that would be insane.[/QUOTE]

I'm not even on his side and I can see what a obvious fucking false dichotomy this is.