Valve explains methodology behind controversial trade holds/escrow system on Steam, reveals ~75K acc - Polidicks

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;49283130]Still waiting for the ability to use Google Authenticator instead of Valve's own crappy app. I don't mind 2FA, I mind being forced to use crappy apps when solutions exist already.[/QUOTE] Click the app > see the code > close the app I don't see why your problem is that you have to use a different app if the solution is one tap away

[QUOTE=Grandzeit;49287927]You're right. How dare people have different phones. They shouldn't be allowed to trade or instead resort to downloading a potentially malicious program which renders the entire process useless since you no longer use two different devices anyways. Valve really shouldn't give a shit about them, even if they could easily have settled with an alternative or ported their app. Let's all put this behind us and forget it even happened and press people into buying new devices, all due to a large part of the userbase which will likely still end up getting phished after all these extra forced safety steps.[/QUOTE] Yeah. I think you shouldn't depend on niche OS software. Good luck asking for support from literally any company in the world if the demographic isn't there.

[QUOTE=Take_Opal;49288225]Yeah. I think you shouldn't depend on niche OS software. Good luck asking for support from literally any company in the world if the demographic isn't there.[/QUOTE] How dare people rely on OS that better suits their real life needs. :downs: Either way, Valve made a pretty great move to prevent people from just cancelling trades while they're in their waiting period. [t]http://i.imgur.com/JIU6wN0.png[/t] Weird they didn't mention it in article.

[QUOTE=Grandzeit;49288318]How dare people rely on OS that better suits their real life needs. :downs: [/QUOTE] You're asking a company to cater to your specifications and that is inherently ridiculous in this situation. It isn't viable to create and maintain a feature-complete application for an OS used by %3 of the market.

[QUOTE=Knurr;49287687]It's scary for me they even started discussing about removing trading completely only because they don't have anything from it. Valve seems to show it's selfish nature.[/QUOTE] lmao valve considers closing down the system that makes them the most money, simply to help protect their customers by removing the incentive for others to steal their accounts, and they're selfish for it? how does that logic work jesus christ lol

[QUOTE=Take_Opal;49288639]You're asking a company to cater to your specifications and that is inherently ridiculous in this situation. It isn't viable to create and maintain a feature-complete application for an OS used by %3 of the market.[/QUOTE] What Valve exactly is doing already is catering to the dumbfuck %8, the alleged 77.000 of the average 9m active users a month, that mostly click things they're not supposed to click, or don't have proper client-end safety measures. It doesn't even have to be an application. All they have to do is to make this entire ordeal [B]optional[/B] at the cost of voiding your access to Steam account recovery/item Support, like they did with their previous restrictions - and that works just well. There are plenty of other ways as well. But no, apparently it's too much for me to want a service I've been using for 5+ years to start using common sense and stop risking additional hacked account because "It isn't viable to create and maintain a feature-complete application for an OS used by %3 of the market." [QUOTE=Whibble;49288720]lmao valve considers closing down the system that makes them the most money, simply to help protect their customers by removing the incentive for others to steal their accounts, and they're selfish for it? how does that logic work jesus christ lol[/QUOTE] They're doing it to reduce the stress on Steam Support mostly. So yes, they would be harming the majority for the sake of using less time on helping people that lost something. That is selfish.

[QUOTE=Coolboy;49285101]I dunno what you all are talking about, I use since it surfaced and it works fast and wonderful. There is even no need to unlock my phone thanks to the notification I always get, it is so goddamn handy. Sure I get it, its bad for people without smartphones, but other than that, it works flawlessy. Though, those people that are fine with the app are not vocal about it.[/QUOTE] When you're alienating people without smartphones or with Windows Phones it really stops working flawlessly, though.

[QUOTE=Grandzeit;49288741]What Valve exactly is doing already is catering to the dumbfuck %8, the alleged 77.000 of the average 9m active users a month, that mostly click things they're not supposed to click, or don't have proper client-end safety measures. It doesn't even have to be an application. All they have to do is to make this entire ordeal [B]optional[/B] at the cost of voiding your access to Steam account recovery/item Support, like they did with their previous restrictions - and that works just well. There are plenty of other ways as well. But no, apparently it's too much for me to want a service I've been using for 5+ years to start using common sense and stop risking additional hacked account because "It isn't viable to create and maintain a feature-complete application for an OS used by %3 of the market." They're doing it to reduce the stress on Steam Support mostly. So yes, they would be harming the majority for the sake of using less time on helping people that lost something. That is selfish.[/QUOTE] You just sound like you've never worked for a tech business, or any idea how costly support can be. I don't think you realize the amount of effort companies go through to take care of dumbfucks. This way, they don't have to take care of them at all, and if you somehow lose out the amount of work valve gets to avoid because of this helps those people even more. You really just don't seem to realize the benefit of them doing this, and that just makes you look dumb.

[QUOTE=Grandzeit;49288741]What Valve exactly is doing already is catering to the dumbfuck %8, the alleged 77.000 of the average 9m active users a month, that mostly click things they're not supposed to click, or don't have proper client-end safety measures. It doesn't even have to be an application. All they have to do is to make this entire ordeal [B]optional[/B] at the cost of voiding your access to Steam account recovery/item Support, like they did with their previous restrictions - and that works just well. There are plenty of other ways as well. But no, apparently it's too much for me to want a service I've been using for 5+ years to start using common sense and stop risking additional hacked account because "It isn't viable to create and maintain a feature-complete application for an OS used by %3 of the market." They're doing it to reduce the stress on Steam Support mostly. So yes, they would be harming the majority for the sake of using less time on helping people that lost something. That is selfish.[/QUOTE] People who are well versed in safety can still fall prey to hijackers. There are so many methods, and methods yet to be conceived, to gain control of a target's computer. Malicious ads that install trojans and game servers that can install malicious software on a client's computer, just to name a couple. Hijackers will continue to abuse and find new methods as long as they are likely to gain from it. What's the best way to opt out of these 'ordeals' that a hijacker can't take advantage of? To any user that uses email confirmations, the first thing a hijacker disables is the email confirmations. So that route is completely pointless. I don't understand why this is 'harming' the majority. Yes, it's an inconvenience for users across the board, but it's a tradeoff for security across the board. Maybe you don't care because "it'll never happen to me". I've had quite a few friends get hijacked, even ones that I know were computer literate. Common sense only works for situations you've heard of or seen before. New and novel ways will fly right under your radar. So what if one of the benefits is to reduce the load on Steam Support? Sure, they can just throw more people onto the pile, but it becomes a much larger drain on resources as a result. Why not prevent problems in the first place, rather than solving them after they happen? Valve is still a business, and efficiency is key no matter what kind of business you run. Overall I'd call this is a positive change for both sides.

[QUOTE=Grandzeit;49288741]What Valve exactly is doing already is catering to the dumbfuck %8, the alleged 77.000 of the average 9m active users a month, that mostly click things they're not supposed to click, or don't have proper client-end safety measures. It doesn't even have to be an application. All they have to do is to make this entire ordeal [B]optional[/B] at the cost of voiding your access to Steam account recovery/item Support, like they did with their previous restrictions - and that works just well. There are plenty of other ways as well. But no, apparently it's too much for me to want a service I've been using for 5+ years to start using common sense and stop risking additional hacked account because "It isn't viable to create and maintain a feature-complete application for an OS used by %3 of the market." They're doing it to reduce the stress on Steam Support mostly. So yes, they would be harming the majority for the sake of using less time on helping people that lost something. That is selfish.[/QUOTE] lets be real i'd be curious to see the demographic overlap between steam users and windows phone users i would say that it's not that much all things considered. i just don't think there's enough WP users who also use steam to make it relevant

[QUOTE=Coment;49287804]Because, just like with Google Authenticator, you can't confirm on the device that the trade you're seeing in the computer screen is the same as the one you're doing. Which is a trick you can only do with a fake URL looking like steam's, which goes back to problem #1 of people not double-triplechecking where they do important things like logins and trades.[/QUOTE] SMS would work actually, since they could include the details of the trade in that. However, I think that would get fairly costly for Valve, also because users would use this far more often than just for logging in.

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;49289742]lets be real i'd be curious to see the demographic overlap between steam users and windows phone users i would say that it's not that much all things considered. i just don't think there's enough WP users who also use steam to make it relevant[/QUOTE] In the US? Certainly. In Europe where WPs are in many ways one of the most affordable functional smartphone, banks have apps for them, in many cases are a person's first smartphone and a lot of other things? I doubt the number is that small to be insignificant. I mean you see WPs in Prague all the time, generally in the hands of younger people. The reason for that is that carrier subsidies are either non existant or shit and WPs tend to win in the sub 300USD pricepoint on performance.

[QUOTE=Ezhik;49284667]Valve, to Windows Phone users: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯[/QUOTE] I'm going to assume their excuse for not making a Windows Phone app is because if you're on W10, that app is now on your desktop, because they work across platforms (WP8.1 supports W10 apps and vice versa). Or they just fucking lazy.

[QUOTE=Reagy;49293137]I'm going to assume their excuse for not making a Windows Phone app is because if you're on W10, that app is now on your desktop, because they work across platforms (WP8.1 supports W10 apps and vice versa). Or they just fucking lazy.[/QUOTE] You can actually go and make a UWP app work only on a phone. Since you define target families. [t]https://i-msdn.sec.s-msft.com/dynimg/IC801371.png[/t]

so if you just use steam to buy games and don't do shit with the market, you're fine?

[QUOTE=Squad1993;49293900]so if you just use steam to buy games and don't do shit with the market, you're fine?[/QUOTE] Naturally. This only affects trading, nothing happens if you're not a trader and don't use the two-factor authenticator. It's still adviced to use it if you can, losing your Steam account and all your games sucks.

[QUOTE=zerosix;49285177]The Steam app works fine for me, first time I've used 2 factor authentication that lets me just look at my lock screen for the code Phone is on my desk, hit enter to log into Steam, double tap phone screen (LG G4) and the code is there[/QUOTE] Can't forget the widget [t]https://my.mixtape.moe/zwmqto.jpeg[/t] [editline]12th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=atrblizzard;49285425]Always saddens me that Windows Phone never gets the desired love as it should, but I might be able to do an unofficial client based off Jessecar96's [URL="https://github.com/Jessecar96/SteamDesktopAuthenticator"]Steam Desktop Authenticator[/URL] if it's okay with him.[/QUOTE] Actually it's just using our good friend geel9's library Someone already included support for winRT Shops open, Someone's probably already started

[QUOTE=Scratch.]Can't forget the widget Actually it's just using our good friend geel9's library Someone already included support for winRT Shops open, Someone's probably already started[/QUOTE] Yes, seen that when I started digging around its source code. I'll most likely to make the code visible in large tile mode for convenience just like how Android has it. Don't mind working on my version in the meantime.

I think it was a completely dumb as shit move by making permanently removing games from your library a thing. As in having to re-buy them to get them back. What purpose does that serve, especially when you can just move them to a folder already and never see them. It's just a new way to fuck with accounts people have gained access to. If I was a cunt who phished accounts, I'd now be deleting one or two games from people's accounts a month. It could be a year before they notice. John Doe goes to install a game he hasn't played in a while only to discover that in the time since he's last played it's been deleted from his account. Good luck getting it back without paying for it again

[QUOTE=TheTalon;49294906]I think it was a completely dumb as shit move by making permanently removing games from your library a thing. As in having to re-buy them to get them back. What purpose does that serve, especially when you can just move them to a folder already and never see them. It's just a new way to fuck with accounts people have gained access to. If I was a cunt who phished accounts, I'd now be deleting one or two games from people's accounts a month. It could be a year before they notice. John Doe goes to install a game he hasn't played in a while only to discover that in the time since he's last played it's been deleted from his account. Good luck getting it back without paying for it again[/QUOTE] I think your overestimating peoples interest in fucking with people they don't know. Besides its just automating something that was already possible by contacting support for in the past. [editline]11th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Butthurter;49295082]the worst part is who even sincerely wanted this? there isnt a big enough crowd of people that demanded this, other than people ironically saying theyd get rid of steam games like as though anybody cares what kind of shit you have[/QUOTE] I think the main use-case is children, and people who want to get rid of their censored version, so they can buy an uncensored one.

You guys seem to have forgotten about region locked games. This is the main purpose of removing games, so you can remove a region locked game and purchase a new one if you move. IIRC there are steps you can go through to restore 'deleted' games as well.

[QUOTE=Cold;49295118]I think your overestimating peoples interest in fucking with people they don't know.[/QUOTE] You know a lot of computer viruses are made without the intention of gaining anything, just to fuck with people and ruin their shit? I think you underestimate peoples interest in fucking with people they don't know.

[QUOTE=FingerSpazem;49297532]You know a lot of computer viruses are made without the intention of gaining anything, just to fuck with people and ruin their shit? I think you underestimate peoples interest in fucking with people they don't know.[/QUOTE] Its can be easy to make something destructive in some cases, but it different from when you're dealing with steam accounts, and you have a much higher entry barrier, a much larger minimal amount of time you need to invest to get to the point of owning the steam account. And being able to bypass the steam authenticator to delete their games. It does happen tho, the most obvious examples being the defacing of high profile websites. But its still just an very small minority of cyber-crime being motivated by people doing it for the sake of causing drama.

[QUOTE=Cold;49309403]Its can be easy to make something destructive in some cases, but it different from when you're dealing with steam accounts, and you have a much higher entry barrier, a much larger minimal amount of time you need to invest to get to the point of owning the steam account. And being able to bypass the steam authenticator to delete their games. It does happen tho, the most obvious examples being the defacing of high profile websites. But its still just an very small minority of cyber-crime being motivated by people doing it for the sake of causing drama.[/QUOTE] All they need to remove games from your account is an xss on the support page Which would probably be more likely to happen than someone trying to bypass an 2fa

[QUOTE=PsiSoldier;49285352]There's a good reason most don't allow you to see the security code without first unlocking. Y'know, going against the whole idea of [I]'secure'[/I] and everything.[/QUOTE] I'm 4 days late so I doubt this guy will see this, but, my phone has some smart lock stuff that will unlock my phone when it's in a trusted area (I have my office and home set up) and will lock itself again when its set back down onto a table or if it detects that it has been moved from my person/left my safe unlock zones. So unless I'm in one of these places you can't see the notifications until you enter my pin or swipe pattern. Pretty sure all android phones by default have notifications hidden when the phone is locked.

it was only a problem when malware was going around that traded the entirety of peoples steam inventories hm hm.

[QUOTE=Knurr;49287687]It's scary for me they even started discussing about removing trading completely only because they don't have anything from it. Valve seems to show it's selfish nature[/QUOTE] I don't think you understand how costly it is for Valve's support to have to deal with problems like this. It's either they pay people money to deal with customer support/re-allocate resources/workers to deal with customer support, ignore any complaints because "lol if you got hacked its your fault" (which in turn would give them a bad rep) or they can try and deal with the problem in what they deem to be a secure method. Why would they continue wasting resources on something they don't gain anything from and people only lose from? I don't really see that as selfish.

[QUOTE=Scratch.;49294364]Can't forget the widget [t]https://my.mixtape.moe/zwmqto.jpeg[/t] [...][/QUOTE] Oh cool, thanks, that is helpful.