• 120 Days Until the Largest Tax Hikes in History
    231 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Tetracycline;24574143]Goodish, we need taxes to get out of the debt or something along those lines[/QUOTE] No, we need to create goods in this country to sell to other coutries to make money. If america was even 60% self sufficient we probably wouldn't be in this mess because we would be able to pay back debts. There would be jobs for everyone too!
Tax cuts expiring is NOT the same as raising taxes. "Raising taxes" implies the normal level of tax is being raised. Since we are talking about temporarily LOWERED taxes, this is not applicable.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;24576079]Read a post more than once next time?[/QUOTE] The reason I am always ninja'd is because I always re-read a post 3 or more times. Sometimes things just slip through. But my point still stands. Being overyly taxed mixed with taxation without representation was the whole taxes issue.
[QUOTE=Ridge;24576907]The chart would seem to suggest it was Bush (take your pick :))[/QUOTE] Wait which one, I'm just skimming this thread. Also pretty sure this one is bullshit: [QUOTE]The top income tax rate will rise from 35 to 39.6 percent (this is also the rate at which two-thirds of small business profits are taxed).[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]The staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation estimates that in 2011 just under 750,000 taxpayers with net positive business income (three percent of all taxpayers with net positive business income) will have marginal rates of 36 or 39.6 percent under the President’s proposal[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.jct.gov/publications.html?func=startdown&id=3691[/url]
I love how when something bad happens it is "out of obama's control" but when something good is done it is entirely of Obama's doing and as such he should be treated as a god. Nice double standard you folks have here.
what are you talking about
[QUOTE=ASmellyOgreV2;24576235]I'm not going to pretend to know whether higher or lower taxes is good for the economy right now, but I do know that we need to raise taxes and lower spending for the long term. We need to reform Social Security, welfare, and further reform healthcare. Essentially, we need to start running this country like a company that sells social benefits, not like a charity that can print money. The goal every year should be to gain money to lower the deficit without compromising the people. We need to reduce the rate at which people take advantage of welfare. It's disgusting how many people use it for drug money, a way to scrape by without working, or discounted luxury items. These are just a few issues, and it would take years of individual research in innumerable categories and, after legislation passes, further trial-and-error to find the right balance of input and output, but I'm sure it's possible. What this country needs is a massive social reform. I would have to dedicate over a decade to this to even know how to begin, but I know it is possible to change our attitude, and eventually actions, toward government.[/QUOTE] While I agree with you on the cut spending part the raising taxes is not a good idea right now. (It's never been, really) Our Founding Fathers would be ashamed if we turned our government into a company. I mean we ran our country and government like a company, please don't get confused. As said in an eariler post: [QUOTE=Uberman77883;24575336]When will you people get that America hates taxes. Our country's revolution was started in part by over-taxation by the Monarchy. Plus, the Founding Fathers intended the Federal Government to be nothing more but a representation of all the states, which were viewed as independent nations under one banner of unity. My point is, I don't want to give my money away to a government that spends exorbitant amounts of money, no matter who is president. Bush spent money on the war, Obama is spending even more amounts of money on stimulus. When will the spending end? In the past two years, the deficit has gone up nearly 2 trillion dollars.[/QUOTE] Healthcare, Social Security, and other various government programs are not the government's job. Look I'm all for the helping of others, but I believe that it should NOT be up to the government. If you you see someone struggling for whatever reason, the responsibility is up to you. Government is not God, and cannot pass out miracles during depressing economic times, whether it be the great depression, Reagan, Bush, or Obama administration's fault.
that was a complete non sequitur
[QUOTE=Lambeth;24577549]what are you talking about[/QUOTE] Indeed.
Move to Somalia. [editline]08:24PM[/editline] Also how many people on this forum actually pay income taxes. [editline]08:24PM[/editline] Or even property tax.
or any taxes
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;24577170]Tax cuts expiring is NOT the same as raising taxes. "Raising taxes" implies the normal level of tax is being raised. Since we are talking about temporarily LOWERED taxes, this is not applicable.[/QUOTE] Last time I checked, raising taxes meant making taxes higher than they were previously. The difference between "expiring tax cuts" and "raising taxes" is pure semantics.
[QUOTE=Matt4019;24577553]While I agree with you on the cut spending part the raising taxes is not a good idea right now. (It's never been, really) Our Founding Fathers would be ashamed if we turned our government into a company. I mean we ran our country and government like a company, please don't get confused. As said in an eariler post: Healthcare, Social Security, and other various government programs are not the government's job. Look I'm all for the helping of others, but I believe that it should NOT be up to the government. If you you see someone struggling for whatever reason, the responsibility is up to you. Government is not God, and cannot pass out miracles during depressing economic times, whether it be the great depression, Reagan, Bush, or Obama administration's fault.[/QUOTE] When I said "we need to start running this country like a company that sells social benefits, not like a charity that can print money," I meant that since the early 20th century, we've been spending more than we take in. This country has been accelerating itself into the ground at least since the end of WWII. After World War II, the United States used its newfound post-war surplus to essentially rebuild Europe, at great cost to itself. After that, they never really found out how to keep an economy growing. The baby boomers helped to flesh out the taxes as they reached working age. Then the credit bubbles built up in the 90's. All at once in the first decade of the 21st century, massive bubbles burst, exposing the massive debt throughout the nation and the baby boomers started to retire, severing a massive section of income and causing Social Security to steadily plummet into the red. As all of this happened, the Bush administration simultaneously started a war and lowered taxes. For all of the 20th century we were comfortable giving out money. Only now have we realized that you have to make money to spend money. We have to expand economically or face massive repercussions. Contrary to what you say, the government is supposed to help its people. It is part of the social contract that the Founding Fathers[highlight]*[/highlight] loved so much. The people of a nation give up some freedoms for protection by their government, for example you give up the freedom to kill another man for protection from being killed by another man. This has been extrapolated over the years to such things as the freedom to keep a percentage of income in exchange for protection against poverty in old age (Social Security), protection from inescapable poverty (Wellfare), and, more recently, protection from denial of healthcare (healthcare reform). Every one of these is viewed as necessary in modern society. Every one of the current systems needs to change, though. People take advantage of all of these systems. Social Security and Wellfare were made as the bubble grew and there was more money available due to the largest segment of the population being employed. Healthcare reform is just new and must be polished by trial-and error. The point still stands, though. We dug ourselves a massive hole in the 20th century. We have to find a way to provide the necessary functions of government, eliminate the unnecessary waste, and turn a profit. If we can do that, we can climb back up the ladder to the greatest nation on earth. [highlight]*[/highlight] You can't possibly know how the Founding Fathers would feel about modern issues nor would it matter. They allowed the constitution to be amended for a reason, that reason being that times change. You shouldn't judge modern issues on your narrow view of the beliefs of people that died over 200 years ago.
I never understood why the Founding Fathers have such infallible beliefs on government. These people were born in the 1700s; we live in a radically different world now. They were great people in their time, but applying 18th century policies to 21st century problems is insane.
[QUOTE=tomahawk2;24578946]I never understood why the Founding Fathers have such infallible beliefs on government. These people were born in the 1700s; we live in a radically different world now. They were great people in their time, but applying 18th century policies to 21st century problems is insane.[/QUOTE] They did not believe the government was the greatest thing. They despised government. The realized it HAD to be done to provide a common place for the then 13 independent countries to help resolve local disputes and make decisions that would affect them all. It's the first version of the UN.
[QUOTE=tomahawk2;24578946]I never understood why the Founding Fathers have such infallible beliefs on government. These people were born in the 1700s; we live in a radically different world now. They were great people in their time, but applying 18th century policies to 21st century problems is insane.[/QUOTE] Its more so 18th-19th century precedences. Also, simply because it has been around for a long time doesn't necessarily mean its outdated. They lived in houses during the 1600s. That must mean houses are WAY outdated.
Houses also did not have taxes based on the size, and there were not so many building regulations, but besides the fact, God Damn taxes! I understand now what Andrew Ryan intended on the point about the parasite taking our hard earned work. There is enough sales tax, and property tax, already, that we have to waste time and also do some tax return shit. The problem with taxes and welfare is not to be racist, but the truth is, you know how some people jump the border and have kids born in the US to have an excuse to stay, well certain people just have more and more children just to be able to collect welfare, where as some people really do need welfare, but those who take advantage of the system, the result is certain parents don't give a rats ass about their kids, their kids have a bad life, and you end up with gang neighborhoods, more bad lifestyle, and other lives taken in the crossfire. So they will pay for the corrupt party, where as no one in the gov seems to give a shit about the mentally/physically disabled in my state which Obama came from. I can say this because I work in the field with the disabled. The government does not care about those with motor skill disabilities. They purposely make the process so fucking hard that they can not prove their case to get help from the government. So their education, finding work that pays a living, housing, and medication is a pain in the ass, unless someone gives a damn to help and treat them, the fuck is this tax hike going to help. Respectively speaking, you can have an 80 something year old parent still trying to support their 40 something year old daughter, you have to wonder what that daughter is going to do when she is on her own, but no, the fucking US don't pay attention to these issues. Before you dismiss and ridicule the daughter guys, you would think different if you had something happen to you where your body is unresponsive to your mind, or if you later were both blind and deaf, I could go on and on, but living in Obama's state, they had to shut down medical housing and institutions, that a lot of people ended up on the street, and its not like some of these who have families are able to take care of them, it doesn't help Blago, yes he was, a corrupt governor, fucking trying to ban kids from purchasing video games. All I know is I hope the government is honest this time with its taxes, but after every Governor in Obama state has been found guilty except one, I have my doubts.
[QUOTE=tomahawk2;24578809]Last time I checked, raising taxes meant making taxes higher than they were previously. The difference between "expiring tax cuts" and "raising taxes" is pure semantics.[/QUOTE] Raising taxes requires enacting legislation, but expiring is the result of legislation already enacted. That is a very important difference.
[QUOTE=Ridge;24579516]They did not believe the government was the greatest thing. They despised government. The realized it HAD to be done to provide a common place for the then 13 independent countries to help resolve local disputes and make decisions that would affect them all. It's the first version of the UN.[/QUOTE] you haven't read anything by the founding fathers have you: [quote] "The way to have safe government is not to trust it all to the one, but to divide it among the many, distributing to everyone exactly the functions in which he is competent....To let the National Government be entrusted with the defense of the nation, and its foreign and federal relations..... The State Governments with the Civil Rights, Laws, Police and administration of what concerns the State generally. The Counties with the local concerns, and each ward direct the interests within itself. It is by dividing and subdividing these Republics from the great national one down through all its subordinations until it ends in the administration of everyman's farm by himself, by placing under everyone what his own eye may superintend, that all will be done for the best." Thomas Jefferson[/quote]
[QUOTE=Regulas021;24574301]You can't complain about federal debt and then bitch about tax increases.[/QUOTE] That's why it's hilarious to watch tea party activists demand complain about both in a single sentence [editline]09:40PM[/editline] [QUOTE=gerbile5;24577114]No, we need to create goods in this country to sell to other coutries to make money. If america was even 60% self sufficient we probably wouldn't be in this mess because we would be able to pay back debts. There would be jobs for everyone too![/QUOTE] Gotta thank all those corporations for out-sourcing
[QUOTE=thisispain;24581231]you haven't read anything by the founding fathers have you:[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure Hamilton was not a fan of state's rights either.
[QUOTE=MRTW113;24581284]Gotta thank all those corporations for out-sourcing[/QUOTE] Gotta thank the government for taxing and regulating them to death
[QUOTE=Ridge;24581348]Gotta thank the government for taxing and regulating them to death[/QUOTE] Uh, I'm not a fan of government regulation, but I'm pretty sure there's a reason for corporate regulation.
[QUOTE=Dolton;24574064]Biased article, it will still hurt, nonetheless.[/QUOTE] So anything that isn't pro-healthcare has an automatic bias? Bias is inherent in just about any article you might read, sorry to say. There is too small a selection of words in the English language to cover the hundreds of ways to detect bias. However, I'm sure you all are too smart to know that.
[QUOTE=nERVEcenter;24581589]So anything that isn't pro-healthcare has an automatic bias? Bias is inherent in just about any article you might read, sorry to say. There is too small a selection of words in the English language to cover the hundreds of ways to detect bias. However, I'm sure you all are too smart to know that.[/QUOTE] oh please, just look at the website
[QUOTE=MisterMooth;24582370]oh please, just look at the website[/QUOTE] Americans for Tax Reform Okay? Is it not a credible source until it appears on Huffington Post?
[QUOTE=nERVEcenter;24581589]So anything that isn't pro-healthcare has an automatic bias? Bias is inherent in just about any article you might read, sorry to say. There is too small a selection of words in the English language to cover the hundreds of ways to detect bias. However, I'm sure you all are too smart to know that.[/QUOTE] Thank you for informing us how news works. [editline]11:27PM[/editline] as if we did not know already
Let's just tax the hell out of everything for a few years and then normalize them over the course of another few years.
People will grumble then bend over and take it like usa citizens always do, which is nothing.
[QUOTE=WhatTheKlent;24574108]Why is it called Obamacare?, I doubt he had anything involved in the actual planning of the new healthcare system.[/QUOTE] In the 90s the Clinton health care plan, masterminded by First Lady Hillary Clinton, was nicknamed "Hillarycare" by its opponents. Hillarycare sort of made sense as a play on the word healthcare. So when Obama got elected the Republicans called his plan Obamacare even though it makes no sense this time.
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