Former Israeli president sentenced to 7 years for rape
89 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Clark21;28748528]Rehabilitation. And there is a reason why crime rates are very low in Norway. At least they get treated better here than they do in the USA(guantanamo, Pfc Bradley manning, etc)
Also those pictures are of a minimum security prison.[/QUOTE]
Rehabilitation does not have to mean giving them a nice flat.
i can understand the mans temptation with all those beautiful israeli women surrounding him
[QUOTE=STeel;28747448]Our justice system in Israel is fucking horrible.[/QUOTE]
I dislike Israel, but the justice system is eh. Though I agree it's good to have a system of rehabilitation, there seems to be a lot of favouritism in the Israeli justice system.
the only thing i learned form that Norwegian prison pic is that it seems your better off committing crimes and going to jail than being homeless...
[QUOTE=Spacewolf;28747385]Wow, a whole seven years. That doesn't seem like enough.[/QUOTE]
7 years is fine.
[editline]22nd March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;28747917]That's probably down to the actual way the country is run rather than their prison system.[/QUOTE]
You know the way the prison system is run IS part of the way Norway is run, right?
[editline]22nd March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;28750969]Rehabilitation does not have to mean giving them a nice flat.[/QUOTE]
Yes it does. And it isn't even as nice as you make it out to be. it's just slightly more comfortable.
[QUOTE=Spacewolf;28747385]Wow, a whole seven years. That doesn't seem like enough.[/QUOTE]
seven years is a long ass time.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;28750969]Rehabilitation does not have to mean giving them a nice flat.[/QUOTE]
not only do they have an incredibly low violent crime rate, but far fewer prisoners who go through their system end up back in prison compared to the US
so yeah apparently they know better than your fire and brimstone ass
[editline]22nd March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=privatesmily;28751124]the only thing i learned form that Norwegian prison pic is that it seems your better off committing crimes and going to jail than being homeless...[/QUOTE]
unless you don't have an egregious problem with poverty
Sentenced to 7 years of rape?
Oh come on, he will get used to it after the first one.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28747900]Norway is obviously doing something right since they have the lowest violent crime rate in the world
So let's lay off and perhaps take some of their ideas[/QUOTE]
Actually, Qatar has the lowest violent crime (homocide, specifically) rate in the world- followed closely by Saudi Arabia. Norway is 9 and 8 places behind them, respectively.
[url]http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita[/url]
[url]http://www.nationmaster.com/country/qa-qatar/cri-crime[/url]
[url]http://www.nationmaster.com/country/sa-saudi-arabia/cri-crime[/url]
Saudi Arabia, on that note, has one of the highest rates of capital punishment in the world, too (3rd)...
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Saudi_Arabia[/url]
Evidently, since their violent crime rate is so low, they must be doing something right. So let's lay off and perhaps take in more of their ideas.:v:
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;28750969]Rehabilitation does not have to mean giving them a nice flat.[/QUOTE]
Sure it does. We shouldn't worry about reshaping their personalities specifically by making them learn discipline and responsibility whilst instilling a respect for authority in them. Goodness no! We should treat them [b]all[/b] as poor, innocent victims of circumstances who made bad decisions entirely because of elements which were completely out of their control. All they need to do is sit down for a few hours daily and talk about their feelings with counselors, because that will definitely solve the most basic yet most significant underlying problems they have.
/sarcasm
I bet the Palestinians did this. [/BurnEmDown]
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;28752526]
Sure it does. We shouldn't worry about reshaping their personalities specifically by making them learn discipline and responsibility whilst instilling a respect for authority in them. Goodness no! We should treat them [b]all[/b] as poor, innocent victims of circumstances who made bad decisions entirely because of elements which were completely out of their control. All they need to do is sit down for a few hours daily and talk about their feelings with counselors, because that will definitely solve the most basic yet most significant underlying problems they have.[/QUOTE]
lol, you have taken what rehabilitation actually DOES to something no one even think it should do
GOOD JOB CLAP CLAP CLAP
[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28752754]lol, you have taken what rehabilitation actually DOES to something no one even think it should do
GOOD JOB CLAP CLAP CLAP[/QUOTE]
Read again, kiddo:
[quote]Actually, Qatar has the lowest violent crime (homocide, specifically) rate in the world- followed closely by Saudi Arabia. Norway is 9 and 8 places behind them, respectively.
[url]http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita[/url]
[url]http://www.nationmaster.com/country/qa-qatar/cri-crime[/url]
[url]http://www.nationmaster.com/country/sa-saudi-arabia/cri-crime[/url]
Saudi Arabia, on that note, has one of the highest rates of capital punishment in the world, too (3rd)...
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Saudi_Arabia[/url]
Evidently, since their violent crime rate is so low, they must be doing something right. So let's lay off and perhaps take in more of their ideas.:v:[/quote]
So a country with one of the highest rates of capital punishment in the world actually has less violent crime than a country that's focused entirely on rehabilitation... I think you can see how that defeats both your argument and Zeke's.
[IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/2nsc2yv.jpg[/IMG]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate[/url]
Saudi arabia is indeed lower, but Qatar is not
[editline]22nd March 2011[/editline]
So what exactly is your point?
Wait, how did we get from a former Israeli president's rape-a-palooza to homicide rates in Qatar?
[editline]22nd March 2011[/editline]
In less than one page?
Ask Lunch box of doom.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28747739]There's one reminder that you're in prison though: you aren't allowed to leave[/QUOTE]
Well it's not like people on this forum leave their room quite often. :v:
I think it's funny how no one is questioning the proof (or the lack thereof).
wow
[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28752966][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate[/url]
Saudi arabia is indeed lower, but Qatar is not[/quote]
Qatar has no rate listed even for the most recent year provided there, 2009. Saudi Arabia was my primary focus, however.
[quote=The LocalFlavor][editline]22nd March 2011[/editline]
So what exactly is your point?[/QUOTE]
That it's erroneous to try to claim as Zeke did that the lack of violent crimes in Norway is due just to their system of rehabilitation, and that, even assuming their system of punishment, did cause this to be so, it is negated by the fact that they have much higher violent crime rate in comparison to the nation of Saudi Arabia, which is ranked 3rd highest in the world for use of capital punishment yet has a lower rate of violent crimes (thereby showing that, if this kind of a drummed-up comparison were to be valid and lack any fallacious logic, capital punishment must evidently be more effective than rehabilitation).
[editline]22nd March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28753038]Ask Lunch box of doom.[/QUOTE]
Refer to Zeke129.
Except in every single country that prides itself on a system of rehabilitation has A: low crime rates and B: has a low rate of people going BACK to prison.
[editline]22nd March 2011[/editline]
And the countries THEMSELVES pride themselves on preventing violent crime and their system of rehabilitation is part of the effort.
[editline]22nd March 2011[/editline]
It's fucking logic
I support this.
In other news, a former Israeli president raped an employee. [i]Twice.[/i] Surely there's a pun we're missing here.
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;28753214][B]That it's erroneous to try to claim as Zeke did that the lack of violent crimes in Norway is due just to their system of rehabilitation[/B], and that, even assuming their system of punishment, did cause this to be so, it is negated by the fact that they have much higher violent crime rate in comparison to the nation of Saudi Arabia, which is ranked 3rd highest in the world for use of capital punishment yet has a lower rate of violent crimes (thereby showing that, if this kind of a drummed-up comparison were to be valid and lack any fallacious logic, capital punishment must evidently be more effective than rehabilitation).
[/QUOTE]
Well, the higher QOL is probably responsible for the lower violent crimes, but there's statistical evidence that proves rehabilitation produces significant drops in repeat offenders. However, apply this logic to your own argument and you find that Iran has a pretty meh violent crime rate, and China has a pretty average one which defeats the claim that capital punishment is responsible for low crime rates. The lower crime rates are likely due to the fact that these countries are vastly conservative in all aspects anyway, which is something that'll never be implemented in any Western nation anytime soon, I hope.
However, consider the fact that a majority of violent crime is not due to sociopathy or psychopathy, but due to poverty, so it makes plenty of sense that rehabilitation via skill training would lower repeat offending rates. Then consider the fact that sociopathy and psychopathy, the other cause of violent crime, cannot be successfully corrected via discipline, but again through rehabilitation.
Also, I would like some statistics proving that disciplinary action lowers crime rates, I'm fairly certain I offered papers on rehabilitation's effect on repeat offenders in another thread.
[QUOTE=STeel;28747673][img]http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1787/norwegianprisonthumb01ao9.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
This room does not even have carpeting! What a fucking joke! This is a blatant and outrageous abuse of human rights, and the Norwegian prison system needs to be drastically reformed if this room represents the rest of their system.
[QUOTE=Explosions;28754727]This room does not even have carpeting! What a fucking joke! This is a blatant and outrageous abuse of human rights, and the Norwegian prison system needs to be drastically reformed if this room represents the rest of their system.[/QUOTE]
But carpet can collect dust and make you sneeze.
[QUOTE=Explosions;28754727]This room does not even have carpeting! What a fucking joke! This is a blatant and outrageous abuse of human rights, and the Norwegian prison system needs to be drastically reformed if this room represents the rest of their system.[/QUOTE]
And they only have a conventional TV, they're depriving them of their rights to HD
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;28752526]Sure it does. We shouldn't worry about reshaping their personalities specifically by making them learn discipline and responsibility whilst instilling a respect for authority in them. Goodness no! We should treat them [b]all[/b] as poor, innocent victims of circumstances who made bad decisions entirely because of elements which were completely out of their control. All they need to do is sit down for a few hours daily and talk about their feelings with counselors, because that will definitely solve the most basic yet most significant underlying problems they have.
/sarcasm[/QUOTE]
Also, I would like to mention that if anyone is set on committing violent crime, and it isn't through necessity and he/she was raised in a manner that enforces that disobeying the law is wrong, then they probably have some sort of mental disease, which means their decisions are out of their control.
The only situation where I could imagine someone with a sound mind committing a violent crime is if someone is really angry. And even then, psychologist recommend, you guessed it, rehabilitation.
[editline]22nd March 2011[/editline]
Oh! And that's an argument against capital punishment too. If they're angry enough to kill, are they really thinking about the consequences?
[editline]22nd March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Explosions;28754727]This room does not even have carpeting! What a fucking joke! This is a blatant and outrageous abuse of human rights, and the Norwegian prison system needs to be drastically reformed if this room represents the rest of their system.[/QUOTE]
You can't argue with their methods, it's working after all.
The same cannot be said about the U.S.
[QUOTE=Clark21;28748528]Rehabilitation. And there is a reason why crime rates are very low in Norway. At least they get treated better here than they do in the USA(guantanamo, Pfc Bradley manning, etc)
Also those pictures are of a minimum security prison.[/QUOTE]
I thought the same, but then I thought of the case of Varg Vikernes whom was convicted with murder and arson, living in similar condition. Later he also tried to escape and was caught in a car with a whole armory in it, and after that he still was being kept in these conditions.
[QUOTE=STeel;28747673]You reminded me of some of Norway's prisons.
[img_thumb]http://designgid.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/10/Norwegian%20Prison%20Looks%20More%20Like%20a%20Holiday%20Resort/halden-prison-04.jpg[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1787/norwegianprisonthumb01ao9.jpg[/img_thumb]
Both looking more comfortable than my room.[/QUOTE]
Comfortable room BUT NO FREEDOM
[editline]23rd March 2011[/editline]
Imagine living in a luxury house But you can never leave. Cant talk to your friends. being monitored 24-7. The food you eat is decided by the wardens and not you.
This luxury is a lie. You have no freedom in prison
[QUOTE=STeel;28759460]I thought the same, but then I thought of the case of Varg Vikernes whom was convicted with murder arson, living in similar condition. Later he also tried to escape and was caught in a car with a whole armory in it, and after that he still was being kept in these conditions.[/QUOTE]
First of all, the fact he tried to escape disproves that these places are too comfortable to leave. Second of all, the actions of one person does not represent every single human.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.