• Julia Gillard Wins the Australian Election
    180 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Keeshond v2;24662415]you should read both threads. I've done this numerous times already.[/QUOTE] All you have done is say they are better. Reasons, provide them.
[QUOTE=Isotope;24662388]Funny you say that when Labor are always bending over for the Unions, who pretty much pay for Labors dirt slinging campaigns.[/QUOTE] there hasn't been much on the unions at all this term. The ideology behind unions is quite well intentioned too.
[QUOTE=Keeshond v2;24662444]there hasn't been much on the unions at all this term. The ideology behind unions is quite well intentioned too.[/QUOTE] "The path to Hell is paved with good intentions"
[QUOTE=Keeshond v2;24662444]there hasn't been much on the unions at all this term. The ideology behind unions is quite well intentioned too.[/QUOTE] Nearly all the pro labor ads you saw on your television this campaign were funded by the unions. Next argument please.
Too much union is bad. Very bad.
[QUOTE=Superwafflez;24662435]All you have done is say they are better. Reasons, provide them.[/QUOTE] kay [quote=me] Another thing is, the mining tax. It hasn't been talked about too much on facepunch; but i'd like to make a point: We only have these deposits of iron ore, uranium and other shit like that ONCE. We should capitalize on it greatly. Because sooner or later, we're going to run out, and some estimates have said our grandchildren could witness the beginning of it. I'm damn happy the greens support it too. Did you know, in 50-100 years; there will be no more matches? (or at least not as we know them today). Phosphorus reserves are estimated to deplete soon. [/quote] [quote=me]A stronger economy means a stronger country. We can pay back the debt; it will take time, but it will be worth it.[/quote] I can't be bothered quoting everything i said on that page, you can read through my comments on the stimulus packages here. [url]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=997897[/url] [editline]09:20AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Noth;24662454]"The path to Hell is paved with good intentions"[/QUOTE] An unsourced quote doesn't give that much merit, especially when it's taken out of context.
[QUOTE=Keeshond v2;24662494]kay I can't be bothered quoting everything i said on that page, you can read through my comments on the stimulus packages here. [url]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=997897[/url] [editline]09:20AM[/editline] An unsourced quote doesn't give that much merit, especially when it's taken out of context.[/QUOTE] The problem with the mining tax is employment. Mining companies will simply end their employees contracts and overwork others to maintain the same level of profit. Your points on the stimulus scream labor brainwashing - we didn't need near the amount that was used.
[QUOTE=Superwafflez;24662461]Nearly all the pro labor ads you saw on your television this campaign were funded by the unions. Next argument please.[/QUOTE] May you please provide evidence from an unbiased source? I'm not actually trying to imply you're wrong on this, i'm just fact checking. Still, i'd rather unions than large corporate bodies.
I couldn't remember who said it
[QUOTE=Keeshond v2;24662528]May you please provide evidence from an unbiased source? I'm not actually trying to imply you're wrong on this, i'm just fact checking. Still, i'd rather unions than large corporate bodies.[/QUOTE] There's an overwhelming amount of documentation of union donations to the Labor party for the express use in campaigning. [url]http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=labor+advertisment+union+funded[/url] Scroll past the American relevant links.
[QUOTE=Keeshond v2;24662528]May you please provide evidence from an unbiased source? I'm not actually trying to imply you're wrong on this, i'm just fact checking. Still, i'd rather unions than large corporate bodies.[/QUOTE] Nice to know that people can give their views without resorting to "fuck you", "you're an idiot" and other such eloquent phrases. Don't ever give in.
[QUOTE=Superwafflez;24662527]The problem with the mining tax is employment. Mining companies will simply end their employees contracts and overwork others to maintain the same level of profit. [/quote] I'll believe you when it happens. Several companies said they'd remove major operations from Australia immediately. Hasn't happened yet. They cannot legally 'overwork' minors. There are strict rules regarding work hours and such. Finally, what would you rather, a few fired employees, or millions, billions or even perhaps trillions of dollars we could obtain for the budget. Sooner or later, the mining companies WILL come back to australia, even if we keep the tax. They know this, we know it. Your points on the stimulus scream labor brainwashing - we didn't need near the amount that was used.[/QUOTE] We didn't need, but it did benefit us alot. I'm sorry, i have to leave for now. It's been nice having this debate :)
A big part of the problem to me is that most people seem to think that the National Treasury works like their personal bank account, with debt being the absolute worst thing possible. Debt may not be a good thing, but neither is excess surplus. Liberal wants to cut back on spending, awesome, fantastic. Except we'll have lots of money lying around not being spent on anything useful, like new infrastructure (National fibre optic network anybody?) as opposed to being in debt for slightly longer and getting fucking badass internet as well. Surplus is nice, but when you're cutting back on so much needed infrastructure, it's not as nice.
[QUOTE=GunsNRoses;24662417]That's not true at all. People donkey vote and vote informally because they don't want to be voting in the first place, so in reality it gives a less accurate reflection. It makes you wonder how many seats are decided by who was the first on the voting list. People shouldn't be forced to exercise their democratic right if they don't want to, forcing dumb people to vote doesn't make them think. Finally explain to me how the hell it would be "counter-productive" to have only the people who actually give a shit voting.[/QUOTE] I admit, donkey voting is the bane of as mandatory system. This is not to say that it less accurate, quite the opposite. People who don't want to vote are still going to, and it gives them an incentive to think about it (well actually, 'forces') whether this is which party would be funniest to vote for or who will represent them best. Secondly, why have that right if you don't excercise it? If you are not going to use it, why be in a democracy if you will not play the game. thirdly, to reiterate, the population as a whole wouldn't be represented. It is counter productive to say the person was elected for the people by the people if only some of the people voted for the person. People refers to everyone as a collective group, you can't say "oh yeah [B]people[/B] voted for him alright" (people as in anyone, not everyone) because it is equivilent to saying "Oh yeah people have accepted responsibility, just not all of them". Which in turn leads to people bitching about how they didn't vote and the prime minister is a wanker and he shouldn't be in power.
[QUOTE=speedy3020;24662003]Can't think for yourself and want me to do all the work for you? No wonder you voted Labor (assumption, greens perhaps?) * Poorly implemented and controlled pink batts scheme that saw 4 people die and hundreds of houses burnt down. * Poorly implemented and controlled BER. Grossly overpriced buildings charged to the govt. to name one facet. * Poor handling of GFC when Australia was barely impacted. $900 was far [b]far[/b] too much to stimulate an economy that didn't need stimulating in the first place. * I can't count how many ministers Labor has gone through the first term alone, including their own PM. (And I know I'm talking State, but lets not forget Morris Iemma and Nathan Rees being sacked) That's only what immediately comes to mind.[/QUOTE] Sorry for the late response, I was out applying for a job so I could keep getting my dole money :smug: [LIST] [*]It was poorly managed I will give you that but it's not like that means the entire thing was a catastrophe. They still insulated several hundred thousand homes causing an enormous decrease in power consumption along with the jobs and training created through the scheme (if they had spent more money on training then they would of been installed properly :v:). [*]Again, poor management does not invalidate the entire program. It gave work to thousands of people where there was none and upgrades the entire education system to prevent them from becoming rundown and requiring more costly maintenance. [*]Speculate all you want about us not being affected by it but there's no way of knowing if we weren't affected because of the spending or because of who we are. The $900 was spent almost immediately by most people so they weren't hoarding it and thus pumping it straight into the economy. As for too much, that's your opinion which I'm sure is backed up by amazing economic credentials. [*]They swaped people around, they must be incompetent! Not only do the Liberals swap people around all the time, why does it matter if they do? It's always a political move to gain popularity and does not affect any policy at all. As has been said previously, their policy was still the same. [/LIST] As I said, you can twist anything around and make it appropriate for your partisan views. It doesn't really matter what issue it is, you can complain about the management, cost, "impact to business" or anything else that comes to mind.
[QUOTE=Lorahalo;24662621]A big part of the problem to me is that most people seem to think that the National Treasury works like their personal bank account, with debt being the absolute worst thing possible. Debt may not be a good thing, but neither is excess surplus. Liberal wants to cut back on spending, awesome, fantastic. Except we'll have lots of money lying around not being spent on anything useful, like new infrastructure (National fibre optic network anybody?) as opposed to being in debt for slightly longer and getting fucking badass internet as well. Surplus is nice, but when you're cutting back on so much needed infrastructure, it's not as nice.[/QUOTE] the surplus is for making the inevitable return of the labor government less hard hitting
[QUOTE=Lorahalo;24662621]A big part of the problem to me is that most people seem to think that the National Treasury works like their personal bank account, with debt being the absolute worst thing possible. Debt may not be a good thing, but neither is excess surplus. Liberal wants to cut back on spending, awesome, fantastic. Except we'll have lots of money lying around not being spent on anything useful, like new infrastructure (National fibre optic network anybody?) as opposed to being in debt for slightly longer and getting fucking badass internet as well. Surplus is nice, but when you're cutting back on so much needed infrastructure, it's not as nice.[/QUOTE] Problem with your comment there is we've always had the Liberals to get the country OUT of debt again, so Labor can go about putting us back in. What would happen if we just kept spending and spending? We'd just go further into debt. This is what Labor is doing
Both parties are also estimating reaching surplus at the same time, so that's another interesting fact.
[QUOTE=Noth;24662657]Problem with your comment there is we've always had the Liberals to get the country OUT of debt again, so Labor can go about putting us back in. What would happen if we just kept spending and spending? We'd just go further into debt. This is what Labor is doing[/QUOTE] Odd, because the Liberal party promised to spend over $10 billion more than the Labor party - and then they had their economic plan reviewed by Treasury (they avoided this until after the election) - which was found to have a $11 billion hole, i.e. missing information / over expenditure. [editline]07:45PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Isotope;24662316]Compulsory voting being ditched would have hilarious results for Labor, they would be totally stuffed without the doll bludgers, immigrants and misty eyed students being forced to actually turn up at polling booths :V[/QUOTE] I think you mean Australian Greens, not Labor.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;24662681]Odd, because the Liberal party promised to spend over $10 billion more than the Labor party - and then they had their economic plan reviewed by Treasury (they avoided this until after the election) - which was found to have a $11 billion hole, i.e. missing information / over expenditure. [/QUOTE] It's not only the Libs that treasury found problems with, an $8 billion shortfall was found in Labor's mining tax.
[QUOTE=Superwafflez;24663002]It's not only the Libs that treasury found problems with, an $8 billion shortfall was found in Labor's mining tax.[/QUOTE] It's a problem policy - not a number problem like the Liberals.
[QUOTE=Lorahalo;24662678]Both parties are also estimating reaching surplus at the same time, so that's another interesting fact.[/QUOTE] Pig's might also fly, if Labor does that it will be an absolute miracle. But, looking at Labor's track record we will just be billions more in debt and they will come up with some bullshit story. Probably the tired old "it's the recession we had to have".
Democracy sounds good but is bad.
[QUOTE=FreeThinker;24663161]Democracy sounds good but is bad.[/QUOTE] Get out of here, you aren't even Australian. This thread has enough impotent rage without you trolling it.
[QUOTE=Isotope;24663140]Pig's might also fly, if Labor does that it will be an absolute miracle. But, looking at Labor's track record we will just be billions more in debt and they will come up with some bullshit story. Probably the tired old "it's the recession we had to have".[/QUOTE] Of course, there is always the tired old argument that the Liberals always get Government in a time of growth. I think you're kidding yourself if you believe in the Liberal's backwards economic plans for Australia. [QUOTE=Devodiere;24663189]Get out of here, you aren't even Australian. This thread has enough impotent rage without you trolling it.[/QUOTE] Don't worry about it. FreeThinker is an idiot. Between "Labour camps for murders" and "eating humans", they're an idiot.
[QUOTE=FreeThinker;24663161]Democracy sounds good but is bad.[/QUOTE] this is true, facism is the only way to go
Thank god I voted for the DLP. lol.
I wanted Tony... Hes the only one who said he would look into the R rating for video games even knowing he had a WTF is that look on his face.
Even with the poorly managed implementations by Labour at least the NBN lives.
Could people please stop referring to Labor as Labour. The party is spelt differently!
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