Russian SU 24 buzzes US Navy ship; gets as close as 30 ft from it - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Melnek;50130496]here come the american jingoists and war mongers [editline]14th April 2016[/editline] next stop is posting the number of tanks, planes and aircraft carriers each country has so that the dickstroking will be complete.[/QUOTE] Well it's pretty indisputable that America's military is the mightiest in the world. I've said this before but just one of our. SSBN's could be considered the third most powerful country in the world. Not to say that's a reason to go out and seek conflict though.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50130514]Well it's pretty indisputable that America's military is the mightiest in the world. I've said this before but just one of our. SSBN's could be considered the third most powerful country in the world. Not to say that's a reason to go out and seek conflict though.[/QUOTE] Israel has a badass military as well.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50130514]Well it's pretty indisputable that America's military is the mightiest in the world. I've said this before but just one of our. SSBN's could be considered the third most powerful country in the world. Not to say that's a reason to go out and seek conflict though.[/QUOTE] the problem lies with the conflict itself while your military is the most funded (any source that tries to put into numbers the might of a country in order to make some sort of "power ranking" bullshit list is downright retarded and easily dismiss-able), if you pit china or russia in an all out conflict literally nobody wins. both countries are adequately equipped to wage conventional war for years. china in particular. your technological edge is not that ground breaking nor is it impervious to all damage. this is why these sort of discussions boil down to MY COUNTRY COULD BEAT UP YOUR COUNTRY, often by posting wikipedia articles and comparing statistics and numbers for no other reason other than stroking nationalistic dicks.

[QUOTE=GunFox;50128770]The jet endangered the lives of 250 American sailors and a Polish helicopter flight crew. One mistake during the ELEVEN simulated attack runs could have killed and injured hundreds. All for what? Nothing. Not a goddamn thing. This was flagrant disregard for life on board a ship that wasn't even doing anything weird. They were training with Poland by themselves. The probing of air defense networks by sending bombers towards a nation is common. It is an intelligence gathering tool and risks basically nobody. They do it all the time in Alaska and Europe. This isn't that. This crosses the line into dangerous. [editline]13th April 2016[/editline] They only knew it was clean because the aircraft buzzed the ship so close that the crew could see it had no armaments. Had it had armaments, it would have been long since too late.[/QUOTE] No need to repeat what I've already read. If this response is supposed to be giving me a reason for killing the 2 pilots then you've only reinforced my observation.

[QUOTE=Melnek;50130560]the problem lies with the conflict itself while your military is the most funded (any source that tries to put into numbers the might of a country in order to make some sort of "power ranking" bullshit list is downright retarded and easily dismiss-able), if you pit china or russia in an all out conflict literally nobody wins. both countries are adequately equipped to wage conventional war for years. china in particular. your technological edge is not that ground breaking nor is it impervious to all damage. this is why these sort of discussions boil down to MY COUNTRY COULD BEAT UP YOUR COUNTRY, often by posting wikipedia articles and comparing statistics and numbers for no other reason other than stroking nationalistic dicks.[/QUOTE] Ive always joked China would win a war with America. All they would have to do is turn off all the factories making our goods. Oh let not forget they could cash in the bonds they hold making the us economy crash. Also all the spies they have wormed into so far into our economy and maybe even military. Yeah I dont think America would win.

[QUOTE=Daysofwinter;50130631]Ive always joked China would win a war with America. All they would have to do is turn off all the factories making our goods. Oh let not forget they could cash in the bonds they hold making the us economy crash. Also all the spies they have wormed into so far into our economy and maybe even military. Yeah I dont think America would win.[/QUOTE] China doesn't need to do anything militarily to ruin the US.

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;50128926]This is false. The truth is, Americans value themselves over others (not saying other nations don't) to the extent they're quite open to killing people over [B]reasonable fears[/B]. The beginning of your post talking about the value of the pilot's life was telling. I'm beginning to believe that even reasonable self defense actions are seen as bloodthirsty by many Europeans, and this does not bode well for the future of your continent. [/QUOTE] When I said that I wasn't referring to this specific situations. I was referring to such situations where please have shot and killed unarmed people for no reason and it doesn't phase them. Most of these situations are definitely not [B]reasonable fears.[/B] This situation definitely is a reasonable fear but I see that as no justification to shoot them down. What they did was provocative, sure, everyone knows the Russians are like that. However American's can't talk about shooting people down because they're scared when they're the most invasive and provocative Nation out there. The ship was in the Baltic sea for christ's sake, some nations could see that as threatening. Shooting down those pilots will never be a justifiable action, no matter what you say. The commander made the right decision. He weighed up the situation, saw that they were not armed and held fire. He was within his right to warn them with a lock on but shooting down an unarmed craft is just as unjustifiable as shooting an unarmed schizophrenic man. If the craft had been carry armaments this would be a completely different story so don't put yourself above me with the "Europeans are scared of fights so even self defence is seen as bloodthirsty" bullshit when there was no self defence to be carried out in that situation. [editline]14th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Michael haxz;50130348]Just because you have the bodies doesn't mean that you have the odds too[/QUOTE] Hmmm. WWII would disagree. [editline]14th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=agentfazexx;50130557]Israel has a badass military as well.[/QUOTE] Yeah because they're all inhuman psychopaths.

[QUOTE=Wickerman123;50130669]Hmmm. WWII would disagree.[/QUOTE] it's not WW2 anymore, we have weapons that can autonomously flatten city blocks at the flip of a switch

[QUOTE=Daysofwinter;50130631]Ive always joked China would win a war with America. All they would have to do is turn off all the factories making our goods. Oh let not forget they could cash in the bonds they hold making the us economy crash. Also all the spies they have wormed into so far into our economy and maybe even military. Yeah I dont think America would win.[/QUOTE] The world economy would collapse as virtually all electronic manufacturing is done in that corner of the world, then by some miracle if that didn't happen, the US would have to get by without the newest iPhone and computers, China would have to figure out how to feed their billion people without the metric fucktons of food they import from the US Ergo a drawn out conventional war between the US and China is all but impossible today.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50130697]it's not WW2 anymore, we have weapons that can autonomously flatten city blocks at the flip of a switch[/QUOTE] The dickwaving begins. I'm sure the German's had that mentality in WW2, "we have weapons that can do this and that." They were the most technologically advanced yet the Russian's gave them a run for their money with an overwhelming number of troops. You can't really use the "oh but we have more advanced weapons now" excuse because you never know how a scenario is going to play out. You have to take a leaf out of a history book or you're just going to make the same mistakes.

[QUOTE=Melnek;50130496]here come the american jingoists and war mongers[/QUOTE] Having an opinion on a foreign military is pretty far from jingoism or war mongering guy, especially when I didn't mention anything in regards to our military.

[QUOTE=Wickerman123;50130740]The dickwaving begins. I'm sure the German's had that mentality in WW2, "we have weapons that can do this and that." They were the most technologically advanced yet the Russian's gave them a run for their money with an overwhelming number of troops. You can't really use the "oh but we have more advanced weapons now" excuse because you never know how a scenario is going to play out. You have to take a leaf out of a history book or you're just going to make the same mistakes.[/QUOTE] er I didn't mean 'we' as in 'we Americans', I meant 'we' being humanity. Everyone has these kinds of weapons. You can't just throw bodies at a problem, they'll get vaporized.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50130749]er I didn't mean 'we' as in 'we Americans', I meant 'we' being humanity. Everyone has these kinds of weapons. You can't just throw bodies at a problem, they'll get vaporized.[/QUOTE] Apologies. My point still stands though, better tech doesn't mean you're gonna win a war. Russia proved that in the past.

Honestly who cares who's military is bigger and better. Both the Russians and Americans will never get in to a direct shooting war. It never happened at the end of WW2 when there was the highest chance in history that they would. They then never started shooting at each other during the Cuban Missile Crisis when there was every chance they would. This was nothing more than the Russians showing off and gauging the US Navy's reaction time to something they haven't experienced in quite some time, at least not that close. Kudos to the Russian pilot for being Russia's biggest Top Gun fan, and kudo's for the US Captain for not doing his best Kilgore/Ripper impression.

[QUOTE=Wickerman123;50130781]Apologies. My point still stands though, better tech doesn't mean you're gonna win a war. Russia proved that in the past.[/QUOTE] I think what people are trying to tell you is that the dynamics of war have shifted beyond where the events of the past are comparable, especially how war went down in the WWI-WWII times. I would argue that's undeniably true.

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;50130858]I think what people are trying to tell you is that the dynamics of war have shifted beyond where the events of the past are comparable, especially how war went down in the WWI-WWII times. I would argue that's undeniably true.[/QUOTE] I suppose you're right but I'm in the mindset that you should never underestimate an opponent.

[QUOTE=glitchvid;50130305]China and Russia are just barely 'allies', they may be economic friends[/QUOTE] And if by "economic friends" you mean we're their very own garbage dump then yeah. If any conflict were to happen China would just say "No thanks, we'll take Far East, that is all".

Our militaries are great and all, but in today's world, a military conflict between large nations like the US and Russia benefits no one, everyone loses even if they win, and they're so large that it's probable that neither would ever "lose" or "win". The best way to wage war between such nations is economically. And the US would lose all to fuck because our greed has put much of our economy in the borders of cheaper labor

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;50128926]This is false. The truth is, Americans value themselves over others (not saying other nations don't) to the extent they're quite open to killing people over [B]reasonable fears[/B]. The beginning of your post talking about the value of the pilot's life was telling. [B][U]I'm beginning to believe that even reasonable self defense actions are seen as bloodthirsty by many Europeans, and this does not bode well for the future of your continent.[/U][/B][/QUOTE] So in Finland, we should enact laws to make gun ownership much less restricted? And then make other changes in the law so that we can defend ourselves and property using our guns? (Or alternatively just create a legal nightmare where people have bunch of shiny custom guns, but not much legal room to use them for.. their intended purpose?(??) Oh and guess who you would piss off the most? All the police in the entire country probably.

People really seem to be ignoring the fact that the destroyer in this incident is literally on Russia's doorstep. Whenever Russia get's the close to anywhere else, they're scared off by scrambled fighters. You can't go "Oh Russia are being real dickheads getting so close to our ship like that" when relatively speaking, the ship itself is just as close to Russia.

Well you kinda got to get close to Russia when you're working with the Polish when you're training with their military... so, that point is kind of moot. Along with the fact this took place in international waters. Basically if you're doing something with someone and an unannounced third party started fucking around with you, you'd be mad. This is like that on a military scale level. The Russian's had no place being around these ships unless they tried to make some sort of reasonable contact, which apparently didn't happen. And when you're conducting exercises with helicopters, and you have douchebags in jets getting this close... [img]http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/2bb92232da719557abf0336bcad59ff901e22ca1/r=x393&c=520x390/http/cdn.tegna-tv.com/-mm-/3649606d982f180e1877e4151665cfc04ab0982a/c=81-0-4677-3456/local/-/media/2016/04/13/GGM/MilitaryTimes/635961593797026058-NAV-Russia-2.JPG[/img] [img]http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/2bb92232da719557abf0336bcad59ff901e22ca1/r=x393&c=520x390/http/cdn.tegna-tv.com/-mm-/b34b550423997f20f5368148f69c37cd253f18b7/c=94-0-1203-834/local/-/media/2016/04/13/GGM/MilitaryTimes/635961593792346028-26346063541-4b940b5119-o.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Orkel;50125804]why did they let a hostile aircraft fly 9 metres from the ship multiple times? what kind of lax defensive orders does the US navy have, one would imagine at least some warning shots?[/QUOTE] no US vessel is going to fire warning shots during peacetime, and ESPECIALLY not with russia

:snip:snap

[QUOTE=Wickerman123;50130669] Hmmm. WWII would disagree.[/QUOTE] Yes, I remember when a majority of the fighting forces on both sides in WWII had the ability to: - Transport their troops via armored, amphibious fighting vehicles - Jet aircraft able to break the speed of sound - Missiles that can lock onto targets from miles away - Intermediate cartridge rifles - Radios the size of apples The list goes on. Don't compare shit from today to conflicts that are more than half a century old. "Well a powerful navy isn't everything, the Romans didn't have one so clearly we don't either"

[QUOTE=Wickerman123;50130669] Yeah because they're all inhuman psychopaths.[/QUOTE] did you seriously just call every memeber of the isreali military a psychopath are you for fucking real dude [editline]14th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Wickerman123;50128664]I get the impression that American's value themselves over others (not saying other nations don't) [B]to the extent they're quite open to killing people for the smallest of disrespectful actions.[/B] [/QUOTE] woooooow this is what happens when you use facepunch to develop your worldview, folks how sheltered does one have to be to actually believe this shit

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;50132356]woooooow this is what happens when you use facepunch to develop your worldview, folks how sheltered does one have to be to actually believe this shit[/QUOTE] It's pretty common among Europeans from my experience as a gun owner, particularly Brits. They won't let you prove them wrong, either.

we shoot each other over holding up the supermarket line our grocery store lines are laden with the bodies of those poor souls taking 15 items into a 12 item checkout

If a Russian warship was off the coast of Florida you can bet your ass some fighters are gonna check it out. Russia was well within their right to fly wherever the fuck they want in international waters and shooting at the jet would have been quite literally one of the dumbest decisions ever made. [editline]14th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=GunFox;50128770]One mistake during the ELEVEN simulated attack runs could have killed and injured hundreds. [/QUOTE] Imagine a world where a 30 ft flyby by an SU 24 constitutes a simulated attack run. They were showing off, if it wanted to pretend to attack it would have locked on with an anti-ship missile at 10km away. Which they didn't have equipped btw.

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;50132356] woooooow this is what happens when you use facepunch to develop your worldview, folks how sheltered does one have to be to actually believe this shit[/QUOTE] I don't use Facepunch to develop my world view you arrogant shit. This is like my first time in Sensationalist Headlines because I saw this in the most popular threads. I build my views by investigating multiple sources and speaking to people from a variety of different political backgrounds. [editline]14th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Grenadiac;50132401]It's pretty common among Europeans from my experience as a gun owner, particularly Brits. They won't let you prove them wrong, either.[/QUOTE] Jesus christ your'e trying to call me sheltered and arrogant and you come out with this pish? It's like you don't even consider other's opinions. I formed my opinion on gun ownership through many experiences, a particularly enlightening one was in a huge teamspeak server with a clan where 90% of clan members were gun owners. I learned a lot and I even managed to silence the server a few times and make people reconsider their own gun ownership. I was certainly swayed, before that discussion I was 100% totally against gun ownership. You're just being closed-minded here. I'm perfectly open to accepting other people's opinions, as I mentioned earlier I understand [I]some[/I] of the pros of gun ownership but your gun control laws are so fucked that even if you fixed them, it's too late to make a difference. The more you argue with this arrogant pisswater the further you bolster my previous observations. [editline]14th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Bat-shit;50132282]You can't ignore something you didn't know.. Nice internet fight though, y'all.[/QUOTE] It's literally in the first sentence of the OP. [editline]14th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=purvisdavid1;50132255]Well you kinda got to get close to Russia when you're working with the Polish when you're training with their military... so, that point is kind of moot. Along with the fact this took place in international waters. Basically if you're doing something with someone and an unannounced third party started fucking around with you, you'd be mad. This is like that on a military scale level. The Russian's had no place being around these ships unless they tried to make some sort of reasonable contact, which apparently didn't happen. And when you're conducting exercises with helicopters, and you have douchebags in jets getting this close... [/QUOTE] I wouldn't say it's moot. Training with someone else's military or not, it's bound to be uncomfortable for Russia. [URL="http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/09/the-counted-police-killings-us-vs-other-countries"]Just [/URL]going to link these [URL="http://www.humanosphere.org/science/2015/10/visualizing-gun-deaths-comparing-u-s-rest-world/"]statistics [/URL]to back up my views.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50132289]Yes, I remember when a majority of the fighting forces on both sides in WWII had the ability to: - Transport their troops via armored, amphibious fighting vehicles - Jet aircraft able to break the speed of sound - Missiles that can lock onto targets from miles away - Intermediate cartridge rifles - Radios the size of apples The list goes on. Don't compare shit from today to conflicts that are more than half a century old. "Well a powerful navy isn't everything, the Romans didn't have one so clearly we don't either"[/QUOTE] People like you are why we never learn anything from our history.