UK Does Not Consider Itself European. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Swebonny;43157777]So why does the UK people want to leave EU. Edit: I don't understand economics, but that seems to be a nice benefit of being in the EU economic zone.[/QUOTE] Because it allows stinking eastern Europeans in?? I dunno, that seems to be pretty much the only reason given. Oh and people don't seem to like that it adds an extra layer of protection for people with some of the directives and regulations they pass. Sure it might take [I]some[/I] power out of the country but it prevents us being fucked over by the government on certain matters.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;43160235]I don't get why people say we aren't a part of Europe. We're separated by a few thousand meters of shallow water, and even then there's a tunnel making it possible to walk straight to France from here. Europe itself is just a periphery of the vast continent of Asia, of which we occupy the western end. If Britain isn't part of the continent, does that also mean islands like Sicily, Sardinia, Crete, Japan, and Taiwan are equally divorced from continental affairs?[/QUOTE] Because they step out of their ugly council house staring at grey and black concrete, glancing at the grey rainy sky believing the rest of Europe is too far romantic compared to Britain's soulless industrial tacky environment. Its a inferiority complex, I was reading online about it and discovered a lot of Brits simply believe we are not sophisticated enough in food, history or culture to be considered Europeans.

[QUOTE=mobrockers;43158130]Move to Scotland.[/QUOTE] But they wouldn't be in the EU if they left! Its been suggested they would have to apply from the outside and go through the entire accession (including the forced switch to the euro amongst other things) process. That's if they would even meet the requirements for entry.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;43160235]I don't get why people say we aren't a part of Europe. We're separated by a few thousand meters of shallow water, and even then there's a tunnel making it possible to walk straight to France from here. Europe itself is just a periphery of the vast continent of Asia, of which we occupy the western end. If Britain isn't part of the continent, does that also mean islands like Sicily, Sardinia, Crete, Japan, and Taiwan are equally divorced from continental affairs?[/QUOTE] I will freely admit that there's no logical reason why we shouldn't consider ourselves European. However we are an island with that comes an island mentality combined with a history of feeling under attack from Europe principally France, Germany and Spain. More so we share less in common with the rest of Europe than other European countries do because of our history of separation, such as our food, language and constitution. [QUOTE=Jsm;43160314]I was sad for a while, but then energy saving light bulbs stopped sucking dick. Like its now possible to go into a small, dark bathroom at night and turn the light on and do what you gotta do in the space of about 30 seconds. Unlike with the old ones where you would have to turn the light on 5 minutes in advanced to ensure the room was slightly lit.[/QUOTE] I have a dimmer switch and they don't work with the new bulbs.

[QUOTE=Gordon Frohm;43158431]I'm still pissed the EU banned light bulbs.[/QUOTE] I was sad for a while, but then energy saving light bulbs stopped sucking dick. Like its now possible to go into a small, dark bathroom at night and turn the light on and do what you gotta do in the space of about 30 seconds. Unlike with the old ones where you would have to turn the light on 5 minutes in advanced to ensure the room was slightly lit. [editline]12th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=slamex;43159064]See I think there's 3 types of Europe. Mainland Europe, Eastern Europe and Britain. Britain claims itself to be European as much as New Zealand claims itself to be Australasian I guess.[/QUOTE] But we are a European nation, just as NZ [B]is[/B] part of Australasia. Eastern Europe is also part of Europe, with the same sort of culture at the end of the day. Although to be fair I see the UK aligned more with the Scandinavian part of Europe than with what people seem to associate Europe with (France and Italy). Our cultures aren't [I]that[/I] different. [editline]12th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=The mouse;43160301] I have a dimmer switch and they don't work with the new bulbs.[/QUOTE] Oh dear, I completely forgot the reason why I switched to using halogen spot lights.. Yeah that is pretty shitty, although I [I]think[/I] people are working on it.

[QUOTE=The mouse;43160128]Personally I don't think they can offer us anything that we can't do ourselves. But I do think that if they ceeded points on immigration or the enviroment then a lot of Eurosceptics in this country would abandon their positions.[/QUOTE] So basically you want to pollute like America and kick the eastern Europeans out. Kind of a shitty thing to want. [editline]12th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=The mouse;43160301]I will freely admit that there's no logical reason why we shouldn't consider ourselves European. However we are an island with that comes an island mentality combined with a history of feeling under attack from Europe principally France, Germany and Spain. More so we share less in common with the rest of Europe than other European countries do because of our history of separation, such as our food, language and constitution. [/QUOTE] As far as invading small islands go though you're as European as it gets.

[QUOTE=The mouse;43160128]Personally I don't think they can offer us anything that we can't do ourselves. But I do think that if they ceeded points on immigration or the enviroment then a lot of Eurosceptics in this country would abandon their positions.[/QUOTE] But, to me, those are things that Britain would almost certainly get wrong without heavy handed guidance. It would be incredibly dangerous in this ever expanding global society to be restrictive on immigration and dismissive of environmentalism. Like you say, Britain still maintains an island mentality, and I don't feel like that is something that we should hold on to at all if we want to survive and stay relevant.

Saying Britain is not Europe is exactly like saying Japan isn't Asia

[QUOTE=The mouse;43160128]Personally I don't think they can offer us anything that we can't do ourselves. But I do think that if they ceeded points on immigration or the enviroment then a lot of Eurosceptics in this country would abandon their positions.[/QUOTE] Legal immigrants are fine. The problem is illegal immigrants and that isn't the EU's fault.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;43160418]So basically you want to pollute like America and kick the eastern Europeans out. Kind of a shitty thing to want. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Wiggles;43160485]But, to me, those are things that Britain would almost certainly get wrong without heavy handed guidance. It would be incredibly dangerous in this ever expanding global society to be restrictive on immigration and dismissive of environmentalism. Like you say, Britain still maintains an island mentality, and I don't feel like that is something that we should hold on to at all if we want to survive and stay relevant.[/QUOTE] I didn't say I wanted those things, but I do think that a lot of people in this country do and that's where a lot of the Euroscepticism comes from. Personally all I'm against is someone else having the ability to tell us what to do without my consent. To me, the EU is beyond the pale of reform and so regrettably we must leave before it either takes us down with it or takes away our sovereignty completely. [QUOTE=Coffee;43160571] The problem is illegal immigrants and that isn't the EU's fault.[/QUOTE] The EU's open borders allow for illegal immigrants to come from anywhere without checks being done on them, in this sense Britain has it relativly light being an island, but none the less it is very much facilitated by the EU.

[QUOTE=The mouse;43160301]I will freely admit that there's no logical reason why we shouldn't consider ourselves European. However we are an island with that comes an island mentality combined with a history of feeling under attack from Europe principally France, Germany and Spain. More so we share less in common with the rest of Europe than other European countries do because of our history of separation, such as our food, language and constitution.[/QUOTE] Britain isn't really much of an island anymore. We should have realized that (well I couldn't because my ancestors were Polish aristocrats in the Russian Empire at the time) when the first plane flew over the Channel in 1909. The channel is a tiny stretch of easily bypassable water. The British navy cannot and will not be what it used to be (much of the logic behind it is pretty much moot these days). Also we share a great deal in Europe. We speak an indo-european language. We are populated by people who are essentially genetically the same as those on the mainland. Half of our language is composed of words derived from Latin or French sources. The other half is Germanic. Our royal family is German. We hold land in mainland Europe. It goes on.

[QUOTE=The mouse;43160732] The EU's open borders allow for illegal immigrants to come from anywhere without checks being done on them, in this sense Britain has it relativly light being an island, but none the less it is very much facilitated by the EU.[/QUOTE] But the fact non EU illegal immigrants get into the UK is nothing to do with the EU. We aren't part of the Schengen agreement and have complete control over our border. The fact the UKBA cannot do their job is not the fault of the EU. Admittedly the EU should deploy Frontex more to protect the external borders but that isn't ever going to happen.

[QUOTE=The mouse;43160732]I didn't say I wanted those things, but I do think that a lot of people in this country do and that's where a lot of the Euroscepticism comes from. Personally all I'm against is someone else having the ability to tell us what to do without my consent. To me, the EU is beyond the pale of reform and so regrettably we must leave before it either takes us down with it or takes away our sovereignty completely. The EU's open borders allow for illegal immigrants to come from anywhere without checks being done on them, in this sense Britain has it relativly light being an island, but none the less it is very much facilitated by the EU.[/QUOTE] How do you function in daily life You remind me to ponder this question like every few weeks

Good reasons to leave the EU:

[QUOTE=NoDachi;43157850]I always found it odd how people here referred to the mainland like some distant Other.[/QUOTE] Britain's (and earlier, England's) entire history is a series of ridiculous arguments with the continent. Couple our turbulent relationship with our innate British smugness and general dislike of foreigners and the fact that we've done rather well for ourselves given that we're a tiny island, and one gets a decent picture of why our attitude towards Europe is the way it is.

You guys are fucking terrible. Someone comes in with a differing opinion and is very calm and versed about it and all you can do is throw immediate strawmans at him and ask him "HOW DO YOU FUNCTION IN LIFE". Even if you don't agree with it can you not respond to it correctly? Well to be fair [I]some[/I] of you have. Pretty much an echo chamber here. "I don't understand economics or how things work...- BUT I LOVE THE EU!!"

"Atlantic Islanders" just sounds weird.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;43162079]"Atlantic Islanders" just sounds weird.[/QUOTE] Especially considering the coasts are largely surrounded by the Irish Ocean and the British Channel.

[QUOTE=Aman;43162046]You guys are fucking terrible. Someone comes in with a differing opinion and is very calm and versed about it and all you can do is throw immediate strawmans at him and ask him "HOW DO YOU FUNCTION IN LIFE". Even if you don't agree with it can you not respond to it correctly? Well to be fair [I]some[/I] of you have. Pretty much an echo chamber here. "I don't understand economics or how things work...- BUT I LOVE THE EU!!"[/QUOTE] The guy gets explained to him why he's wrong regularly. He isn't interesting in learning. So why should I be interested either.

[QUOTE=Aman;43162046]You guys are fucking terrible. Someone comes in with a differing opinion and is very calm and versed about it and all you can do is throw immediate strawmans at him and ask him "HOW DO YOU FUNCTION IN LIFE". Pretty much an echo chamber here. "I don't understand economics or how things work...- BUT I LOVE THE EU!!"[/QUOTE] We must always have a guy like this, otherwise it isn't SH

Island mentality in the 21st centuri is a recipe for disaster. [QUOTE=The mouse;43160301]I have a dimmer switch and they don't work with the new bulbs.[/QUOTE] They do if you buy the right (and expensive) kind. You're not even trying.

[QUOTE=Jsm;43160831]But the fact non EU illegal immigrants get into the UK is nothing to do with the EU. We aren't part of the Schengen agreement and have complete control over our border. The fact the UKBA cannot do their job is not the fault of the EU. Admittedly the EU should deploy Frontex more to protect the external borders but that isn't ever going to happen.[/QUOTE] How do they get to France, Holland and Belgium in the first place? [QUOTE=NoDachi;43160865]How do you function in daily life You remind me to ponder this question like every few weeks[/QUOTE] Acting like a pretentious cunt doesn't give you an argument.

[QUOTE=The mouse;43162263]How do they get to France, Holland and Belgium in the first place?[/QUOTE] People can only travel from one country to another with zero checks if both countries are in the Schengen Zone. That's the EU (minus the UK), Norway and Austria. So they have to be a legal immigrant to any of those countries in order to be able to move freely within Europe. Once they're in Europe, they still have to go through the appropriate checks to get into the UK. That will only change if the UK enters into the Schengen Zone. Personally, I hope they do, for purely selfish reasons.

What the fuck

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;43162308]People can only travel from one country to another with zero checks if both countries are in the Schengen Zone. That's the EU (minus the UK), Norway and Austria. So they have to be a legal immigrant to any of those countries in order to be able to move freely within Europe. Once they're in Europe, they still have to go through the appropriate checks to get into the UK. That will only change if the UK enters into the Schengen Zone. Personally, I hope they do, for purely selfish reasons.[/QUOTE] That's what I meant when I said that the EU facilitates illegal immigration. The Schengen zone allows them to get as far as the coast where they can them illegally enter the UK.

so close they can smell our chip butties

[QUOTE=The mouse;43162651]That's what I meant when I said that the EU facilitates illegal immigration. The Schengen zone allows them to get as far as the coast where they can them illegally enter the UK.[/QUOTE] You're suggesting that a reasonably large number of people, every day, are gaining legal access to mainland Europe and instead of finding a job and living there (where they are [I]already[/I] allowed to live and work), they trek all the way over to the channel in order the make the illegal and not-exactly-easy-or-safe journey over the channel to a country that is renowned for being hostile toward immigrants, legal or no, so that they can live and work there illegally?

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;43162705]You're suggesting that a reasonably large number of people, every day, are gaining legal access to mainland Europe and instead of finding a job and living there (where they are [I]already[/I] allowed to live and work), they trek all the way over to the channel in order the make the illegal and not-exactly-easy-or-safe journey over the channel to a country that is renowned for being hostile toward immigrants, legal or no, so that they can live and work there illegally?[/QUOTE] Which is why I also said [QUOTE] in this sense Britain has it relatively light being an island[/QUOTE] This is something that occurs Europe wide, Britain has it light because they filter out throughout the rest of Europe first. The Schengen area allows illegal immigrants to settle anywhere in Europe, which was the reason I brought it up in the first place. [QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;43162824]I don't really know what point you're making then. Are you arguing that the EU facilitates illegal immigration or not?[/QUOTE] It Does.

[QUOTE=The mouse;43162797]Which is why I also said This is something that occurs Europe wide, Britain has it light because they filter out throughout the rest of Europe first. Didn't bring it up about Britain initially.[/QUOTE] I don't really know what point you're making then. Are you arguing that the EU facilitates illegal immigration or not?

[QUOTE=The mouse;43162797]Which is why I also said This is something that occurs Europe wide, Britain has it light because they filter out throughout the rest of Europe first. The Schengen area allows illegal immigrants to settle anywhere in Europe, which was the reason I brought it up in the first place. It Does.[/QUOTE] No, the schengen area allows [B]legal[/B] immigrants to settle anywhere in the [B]schengen area[/B]. [editline]12th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=The mouse;43162263]How do they get to France, Holland and Belgium in the first place? Acting like a pretentious cunt doesn't give you an argument.[/QUOTE] [B]The Netherlands[/B].