Phil Fish blows a gasket, tells media member to "kill himself" - FEZ 2 CANCELED, owned?
719 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Mingebox;41621877]The only reason he deserves any sympathy is that he probably has some sort of mental disorder.[/QUOTE]
He's just an egotistical spoiled manchild who grew full of himself when people showed the smallest appreciation for his early work. People can be assholes without having a mental disorder of any sort.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;41621877]The only reason he deserves any sympathy is that he probably has some sort of mental disorder.[/QUOTE]
He's just a butthurt man baby
He is literally throwing a fucking temper tantrum on twitter, how much more immature can you get
how would any of you know if he had a mental disorder or not? sure he's responsible for the things he's said and done but why do you assume its completely his fault? he certainly seemed pretty depressed and mentally disturbed in indie game the movie.
[QUOTE=Nemisis116;41621923]He's just a butthurt man baby
He is literally throwing a fucking temper tantrum on twitter, how much more immature can you get[/QUOTE]
Soon he will be like chris chan once making a game better than sonichu's there will be a competition and death threats also much much anger and will be called "The Phil Fish Saga".
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;41621853]
Long story short, Phil Fish knew what was ahead and handled it really poorly because he's an idiot.[/QUOTE]
He didn't know what was ahead of him because it was his first game. Edmund and Tommy also made the same mistake with Super Meat Boy (released info too early) and then they regretted it deeply. And they had a lot of other games made before Meat Boy. So why would you expect someone on their first game to know this beforehand?
You probably have no idea of how hard it is to make a game, especially if it's your first one. So yea, I'd also act like a snarky asshole when people were constantly shitting on me because I'm not good/fast enough to make a game. A simple 2D platformer (Super Meat Boy) took what, one-two years to make? And that was Edmund's + Tommy's 20th game or some shit. So why would you expect someone's first game (that is also a 2D platformer, but a bit more complex) to take less time? It's a miracle that Fez even came out, because for your first game to be that big and that good it takes A LOT of work, more than any of you could possibly imagine.
And honestly, what would you do if people said they liked a prototype you made? Just start working on smaller projects on newgrounds because that's what other people do or push through, finish a game and make money to possibly fund further games? I'd go with the second option, even if I knew it would take a long time (which he probably didn't, because, again, it was his first game).
IMO it is the Internet's fault for picking on one guy so much because of not having anything better to do or because it's funny. Yea, sure, let's laugh at this guy who can't handle being harassed. That's fucking hilarious.
edit: all of this reminds me of this South Park episode: [url]http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s12e02-britneys-new-look[/url]
[QUOTE=The Vman;41620567]To all the people saying that Fish got a lot of unwarranted hate, or that the journalist's comments were out of line, the thing is that that's simply something you have to deal with if you're going to take up a creative industry.
The most important thing when entering a creative field is that you [B]NEED[/B] to have a thick hide. There's no way around it. No matter what you do, you are always going to catch some negative criticism. As an artist, you need to have the ability to shrug it off, or use what they say to improve on what you've done.
Yes, it can get you down, there's no doubt about it, but really your only option is to suck it up.
The way Phil acted just goes to show that he is not at all cut out to be a game developer. Anyone can have a great idea that they're really passionate about, but if you plan on releasing it to the world you need to be able to withstand the criticism you will inevitably receive.[/QUOTE]
Phil didn't just "catch some negative criticism", there was a full-on hate wagon against him from more or less the start that went well beyond what the average developer or artist gets
[editline]28th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=adnzzzzZ;41621784]
This is the exact type of shit that gets blown out of proportion. His comments got taken out of context and if you were to read/listen to EVERYTHING he said WITHIN CONTEXT his comments about japanese games weren't even worthy of notice. Just some guy giving a pretty appropriate opinion on the subject.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much, I've more or less never seen a rude Twitter post or other communication from Fish that wasn't a reply to something else rude when you take a look one or two steps up the comment chain
Yeah this guy didnt do anything wrong at any point in this or bring anything at all upon himself.
Apparently impossible because 1) were all just people its okay(even though it's one sided in fishes favour.) 2) no one knows how hard it can be to do any public creative venture. Even a little bit. 3) not like we could do better
All not valid reasons as for why he's a dick and can be criticized thusly
[QUOTE=adnzzzzZ;41622000]He didn't know what was ahead of him because it was his first game. Edmund and Tommy also made the same mistake with Super Meat Boy (released info too early) and then they regretted it deeply. And they had a lot of other games made before Meat Boy. So why would you expect someone on their first game to know this beforehand?[/quote]
The internet is here for that. Fable is a great example of how too much promises can make people utterly disappointed in your game, and it takes half a brain to realize how much pressure is put on someone when he is in the center of public attention.
[QUOTE=adnzzzzZ;41622000]You probably have no idea of how hard it is to make a game, especially if it's your first one. So yea, I'd also act like a snarky asshole when people were constantly shitting on me because I'm not good/fast enough to make a game. A simple 2D platformer (Super Meat Boy) took what, one-two years to make? And that was Edmund's + Tommy's 20th game or some shit. So why would you expect someone's first game (that is also a 2D platformer, but a bit more complex) to take less time? It's a miracle that Fez even came out, because for your first game to be that big and that good it takes A LOT of work, more than any of you could possibly imagine. [/quote]
Why say I have no idea how hard it is to make a game when an entire part of my post is decidated to saying how hard it is to make a game ?
And the rest of this paragraph of yours is exactly my point. Don't go making a full blown charged game with no prior experience in the domain or you're going to crash yourself against a wall.
[QUOTE=adnzzzzZ;41622000]And honestly, what would you do if people said they liked a prototype you made? Just start working on smaller projects on newgrounds because that's what other people do or push through, finish a game and make money to possibly fund further games? I'd go with the second option, even if I knew it would take a long time (which he probably didn't, because, again, it was his first game).[/quote]
Okay, let's look at newgrounds for a second. Tom Fulp made a few smaller games back in the days, notably Pico's School and Alien Hominid. After a whole lot more games and as NG grew bigger, Tom Fulp finally decided to move onto something bigger, founded Behemoth and released a new and improved version of Alien Hominid for consoles. Later on, he released Castle Crashers, considered a milestone in independent games because of how well it sold over steam and XBLA. It took that guy so much work and so much practice before releasing a grand total of three charged games over the past 12 years (since he started making flash games). When people like that and Edmund McMillen exist, what exactly did make Phil Fish think he could pull it off with no experience whatsoever, directly throwing himself in the development of a single game ?
[QUOTE=adnzzzzZ;41622000]IMO it is the Internet's fault for picking on one guy so much because of not having anything better to do or because it's funny. Yea, sure, let's laugh at this guy who can't handle being harassed. That's fucking hilarious.[/QUOTE]
"Picking on one guy" what ? Have you seen his twitter ? This isn't some silent, humble guy that got pushed to be an asshole by the internet, he started being a flaming idiot and everyone responded negatively, like it's generally the case when someone does something socially stupid. People tend to give feedback on each other's actions and upon doing stupid childish shit, Phil Fish received negative response. How exactly is it not his fault ?
And before you start going on about how he didn't do anything wrong and he only responded aggressively when people said mean things on twitter, you have to understand that Phil Fish put himself in that situation of a snarky dick who openly insults everything people like, for the sake of being hip and edgy. When a japanese reporter politely asked him at a convention what he thought of japanese video games, Phil Fish downright insulted the entire industry and called it utter shit. And the reporter wasn't being mean or sarcastic at all, he just asked a simple question and Phil Fish decided to play it all arrogant-rock-star and started throwing insults everywhere. And when people reacted negatively to that, instead of getting sensible and realized he had made a stupid mistake, he decided not to apologize and continued being pissy about everything. Even in the indie game movie he's already clearly a paranoid, self delusional dipshit who just doesn't know any better and cannot comprehend the fact that people criticize him because everything he does is either socially retarded or downright insulting.
To put it in parallel with Egoraptor's reddit post, imagine if Arin just decided to say everyone to choke on his fat dick over all the criticism he received on pokeawesome 2 and then went "SEQUELITIS IS CANCELLED" on twitter after rambling for hours about how everyone who said pokeawesome 2 was bad should apologize to him.
[url]http://pixelenemy.com/fez-price-announced-on-steam-phil-fish-says-to-be-grateful/[/url]
why does everyone forget this
I love how he's being called a hero
I mean I understand his anger that people are mad that theres only a 1$ discount but holy shit, even if he's being sarcastic, he just sounds like an idiot
[QUOTE=Zeke129;41622023]Phil didn't just "catch some negative criticism", there was a full-on hate wagon against him from more or less the start that went well beyond what the average developer or artist gets
[editline]28th July 2013[/editline]
Pretty much, I've more or less never seen a rude Twitter post or other communication from Fish that wasn't a reply to something else rude when you take a look one or two steps up the comment chain[/QUOTE]
and when he responds rudely to rude comments, all it does is add coal to the fire and makes him look bad
he shouldn't reply to shitty comments at all, it just looks really stupid when he acts equally as terrible
[QUOTE=adnzzzzZ;41622000]IMO it is the Internet's fault for picking on one guy so much because of not having anything better to do or because it's funny. Yea, sure, let's laugh at this guy who can't handle being harassed. That's fucking hilarious.[/QUOTE]
I'm very sure, that most of the time, people dislike him because of his genuinely seemingly completely shit attitude, and that him responding the way he does, only leads him to be harassed even more.
[QUOTE=J!NX;41622124][url]http://pixelenemy.com/fez-price-announced-on-steam-phil-fish-says-to-be-grateful/[/url]
why does everyone forget this
I love how he's being called a hero
I mean I understand his anger that people are mad that theres only a 1$ discount but holy shit, even if he's being sarcastic, he just sounds like an idiot[/QUOTE]
His first tweet was reasonable, he only made the $90 comment after everyone started getting absolutely furious about the lack of a discount
Yeah he probably should have shut up but let's be honest, if he ignored people everyone would criticize him about dismissing his fans or something else
[QUOTE=Zeke129;41622160]His first tweet was reasonable, he only made the $90 comment after everyone started getting absolutely furious about the lack of a discount
Yeah he probably should have shut up but let's be honest, if he ignored people everyone would criticize him about dismissing his fans or something else[/QUOTE]
Well, then instead of ignoring people he should try and be mature and not be a child about it.
That's why this entire thing started in the first place. Bad temper. I don't tell people to fuck off when they say I made a shitty post or the project I'm working on is horrible.
better to ignore assholes, than to simply become an asshole yourself and try and sit there and argue with them.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;41622160]His first tweet was reasonable, he only made the $90 comment after everyone started getting absolutely furious about the lack of a discount
Yeah he probably should have shut up but let's be honest, if he ignored people everyone would criticize him about dismissing his fans or something else[/QUOTE]
You know, even if you're just some average person you should try not to be a total asshole and fight fire with fire, but when you're a successful and fairly well known person you're expected to act with some common sense and restraint.
You don't see Gabe Newell commenting on twitter and shit every time someone calls him fat.
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41622213]You know, even if you're just some average person you should try not to be a total asshole and fight fire with fire, but when you're a successful and fairly well known person you're expected to act with some common sense and restraint.
You don't see Gabe Newell commenting on twitter and shit every time someone calls him fat.[/QUOTE]
to be fair gabe newell would have a lot more to lose if he did that.
[QUOTE=Y'all.;41622235]to be fair gabe newell would have a lot more to lose if he did that.[/QUOTE]
While thats true, it's not an excuse for making yourself look like a fool.
[QUOTE=J!NX;41622170]Well, then instead of ignoring people he should try and be mature and not be a child about it.
That's why this entire thing started in the first place. Bad temper. I don't tell people to fuck off when they say I made a shitty post or the project I'm working on is horrible.
better to ignore assholes, than to simply become an asshole yourself and try and sit there and argue with them.[/QUOTE]
The way I see it is that he kind of occupies the opposite end of the spectrum as Garry.
If someone comes to facepunch to post about how much gmod sucks, Garry doesn't respond. He just bans them. Fish, on the other hand, invites the troll in for tea and gets mad with the troll breaks the teacups.
Neither is the ideal solution but like I said earlier, the games industry seems to have a real lack of a moderate middle ground when it comes to this kind of thing.
This whole thing is just ridiculous.
I'm having the same reaction to this as I had to the whole Amy's Baking Company thing a while back.
I'm having a hard time understanding how anyone can justify acting like this in public.
You can say what you want that it's just "humor" or "his way of doing things", but that doesn't make it any more acceptable. I'm not an expert, but I think it's pretty damn obvious there is something wrong in this guys head that makes him think this is how people should act.
I never bought Fez; When a company treats their customers like shit, I don't do business with them. Why should the rules be any different for an Indie Dev?
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;41622246]While thats true, it's not an excuse for making yourself look like a fool.[/QUOTE]
what if he just has anger problems? i mean a lot of the time people on the internet receiving so much mixed criticism from stuff like youtube comments/tweets can be overwhelming. there's a lot of things to consider. he could just be a straight up dick, but i don't think any of us know him well enough to assume that it's entirely on him
[QUOTE=Zeke129;41622023]Phil didn't just "catch some negative criticism", there was a full-on hate wagon against him from more or less the start that went well beyond what the average developer or artist gets[/QUOTE]
And why do you think the hate wagon started? Because Phil made the big mistakes of being very unprofessional, and [B]very[/B] loud. He obviously goes out of his way to draw attention to himself, and the more people who are paying attention to him, the more negative comments he'll receive. Had he not blown his relevance out of proportion, and if he had even a semblance of professionalism, he wouldn't have wound up in the situation he's in.
My main point is that it is impossible to control public opinion. All the posts in this thread saying that people insulting him are stooping to his level, or how people ought not to tell people to kill themselves, probably aren't ever going to stick with the people who made those comments in the first place. The better idea as someone on the receiving end is to learn to cope with these inevitable comments, and do your best to avoid incurring them, since you'll NEVER be able to simply tell the internet "Hey, stop making fun of me"
I never liked this guy, he always seemed like a pretentious drama queen. And I'm not just saying that because he's an indie dev. I [i]love[/i] indie games and the devs are usually pretty cool people - look at Gaijin Games: they're always so chill and nice to everyone and Bit.Trip turned out to be one of my favorite new series of Gen7.
But Fish always seemed to the the dark side of the indie developer scene compressed into one person. He was an arrogant twit, he thought himself to be much more clever and original than he actually was, he hypocritically dished out abuse all the time when he couldn't take a [i]shred[/i] of criticism, he bitched at Japanese and PC gaming over I don't even know what, and whenever he complimented anyone it was always in a smug, backhanded manner that always carried the message of "count yourself lucky that you've earned my approval." He was an outright hipster who didn't know how to keep his mouth shut. I don't care how good Fez was; I don't support someone like that. And I imagine I'm not the only one here instinctively thinking: "Good riddance, you douchebag."
If you are the content creator or any sort of creator for that matter you should be above responding rudeness with rudeness. If your product is good enough it should speak for itself or at least your fans should be the ones responding. You should stay above the rude and childish comments and shitstorms that will inevitably take place in the internet.
This is not to say you should ignore your customers, your fanbase or your critics, but there is no "stooping to their level" when you are the creator, manager or director of something, there is only "stooping lower than them". Beer might have been an asshole, Fish's critics might have been assholes and everyone might have insulted him and his game, but if you respond in kind this is what you get.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;41621853]Phil Fish started the shitstorm. He promoted his game when it was in a very early stage of development, people picked up on it and started showing appreciation or his work, which Fish appreciated. When he started to delay the game by several years combined people started to feel upset because that game they were expecting wasn't coming out. This is the point Phil Fish started to lose his shit and consider everyone on the internet a snarky asshole because people were being genuinely surprised a 2D basic platformer would take someone 5 years to develop. The closest the game came to being released and the more toxic Phil Fish became, starting to make shitty comments about his own fanbase (which was still expecting the game at this point) without ever explaining the delays or even showing the slightest concern about it. When the games were finally out, he just went full retard and started insulting everyone, knowing that the most hardcore indie fanbase would still support him regardless. He got several awards for his game and some website claimed it was a work of art because they either couldn't see a game 5 years in the making as being potentially bad, or they didn't want a community uproar, which made Phil Fish an even bigger asshole as he decided [B]to side with the hilariously delusional reviews about the failure of a game that was Fez[/B], ignore all the bad reviews and opinions on his game and dig himself a big nice hole of delusion and self-admiration.
[/QUOTE]
You had me until there.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/bFtD0Uj.png[/img]
Fun fact, there are opinions. Some people enjoy the laid back gameplay of Fez. Some people think its nothing special and rather boring. Fish made a pretty good game in terms of production value and polish that sold extremely well and garnered plenty of good feedback, a crapton of awards, and lots of coverage. Not bad for $10 indie platformer from a previously unheard of dev.
Or, you could keep bantering that his game was horrible and everyone who thought his game was good must have clearly been some sort of delusional maniac.
I'm not saying he doesn't act like a self absorbed twat. But give him credit where its due. You're the one whose lying to himself to further your own beliefs if you honestly believe that Fez was a flatout failure and a bad game.
[QUOTE=Y'all.;41622298]what if he just has anger problems? i mean a lot of the time people on the internet receiving so much mixed criticism from stuff like youtube comments/tweets can be overwhelming. there's a lot of things to consider. he could just be a straight up dick, but i don't think any of us know him well enough to assume that it's entirely on him[/QUOTE]
Anger problems is still no excuse. Get off twitter then, especially if it can potentially like it has here destroy your reputation.
It would be great if he keeps on working on Fez II now he's effectively disappeared, then it comes out in a couple of years and someone else does the PR for it.
[QUOTE=Leaf Runner;41622563]You had me until there.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/bFtD0Uj.png[/img][/QUOTE]
[img]http://broduck.ta0soft.com/misc/U4p3M5.png[/img]
i see.
[QUOTE=iWhatIsLove;41622614][img]http://broduck.ta0soft.com/misc/U4p3M5.png[/img]
i see.[/QUOTE]
Didn't Mass Effect 3 have a user score of 0 for a while
[QUOTE=Leaf Runner;41622563]You had me until there.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/bFtD0Uj.png[/img]
Fun fact, there are opinions. Some people enjoy the laid back gameplay of Fez. Some people think its nothing special and rather boring. Fish made a pretty good game in terms of production value and polish that sold extremely well and garnered plenty of good feedback, a crapton of awards, and lots of coverage. Not bad for $10 indie platformer from a previously unheard of dev.
Or, you could keep bantering that his game was horrible and everyone who thought his game was good must have clearly been some sort of delusional maniac.
I'm not saying he doesn't act like a self absorbed twat. But give him credit where its due. You're the one whose lying to himself to further your own beliefs if you honestly believe that Fez was a flatout failure and a bad game.[/QUOTE]
did you just use metacrtic as an objective score to show how it was a game above these peoples meager criticisms?
[QUOTE=iWhatIsLove;41622614][img]http://broduck.ta0soft.com/misc/U4p3M5.png[/img]
i see.[/QUOTE]
That's because professional critics review the [i]game[/i], and not the person who made it.
[QUOTE=Zillamatic;41622645]That's because professional critics review the [i]game[/i], and not the person who made it.[/QUOTE]
but isn't 6.3 a rather meh score?
I knew he was unprofessional and an asshole, but also a blithering fool and a gigantic idiot?
:v:
[QUOTE=Zeke129;41622636]Didn't Mass Effect 3 have a user score of 0 for a while[/QUOTE]
what im trying to get at is that metacritic is probably not a great place to reference for reviews.
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