Saudi Arabia to 'inoculate' children against Westernisation, atheism and liberalism
67 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51542509]Thanks for the history lesson, but all of that was pretty much a non-sequitor. You basically just said "you're wrong, the left [I]does[/I] give Muslims agency!" and then you didn't back up that claim at all.
My problem with the left is thus:
If we lived in a world that had 1.7 billion Mormons, the left would flip out and do everything in their power to ridicule, criticize, and ultimately demonize the religion. They would not stop talking about it. It would be among the left's list of biggest problems with the world.
[B]Why? Because Mormonism is a religion of white westerners. They are the oppressors! Their oppression must be resisted by brave souls who dare to stand up to the evil Mormon lobby![/B]
What we have instead is a religion of 1.7 billion people that is [I]worse[/I] than Mormonism when it comes to the average adherent's beliefs and values. "Moderate Islam", meaning the median belief structure among the world population of Muslims, ranks worse than anything seen in Europe or the United States. But instead of criticism we find the left making common cause with apologists, and even extremists at times for this religion. See Glenn Greenwald's Twitter, or the entire Young Turks Channel on YouTube for evidence of this.
IF the reality was that Islam was simply a peaceful religion, under assault from all sides by an evil Western effort to suppress and marginalize Muslims, that would be another story. But we see what Europe has done to accommodate Muslims. No other society in the history of the world has been so welcoming to outsiders. [B]Muslims are not a victimized group in the world[/B], especially in the West (overall). The leftist narrative is a lie.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure if this even deserves a thought-out reply. What the [I]hell[/I] am I reading?
First off, the part about the 1.7 billion Mormons is you displaying a demonstrable lack of knowledge towards religion at all. I don't even know what your point was. It was a weird attack towards leftists because you think you know how they think (you don't, of course, but you think you do). To think all 1.7 billion Muslims in the world are Arab is incredibly wrong. Most Muslims are Asian. The amount of Arab Muslims are at around 300 million. The amount of Catholics in Europe (so mostly whites) is at almost 300 million, too. So by your (stupid) logic, us left white people automatically hate Catholicism because their numbers are the same as the amount of Arab Muslims or something? I'm having difficulty following such stupid logic.
Second, this view of "Moderate Islam" and "median belief structure" and "ranks worse" is you making stuff up on the spot. What do you mean it "ranks worse"? That moderate Islam practitioners in the West are objectively worse than people who don't practice Islam because...? If this is another poorly worded argument on how Muslims have difficulty integrating, then I will tell you right now, many Muslims in the West are very generally a generation or two in that new country, and this is pretty typical for many immigrants, not just Muslims. Perhaps you've seen a Chinatown or two. "Instead of criticism we find apologists" yes how dare these evil leftists not agree with your short-sighted view of Islam. Bonus points for mentioning the Young Turks, a channel run by Turkish people. You know, an Islamic country. Even more bonus points for saying that Glenn Greenwald and TYT are representative of the nebulous "left" as a whole.
"IF the reality was that Islam was simply a peaceful religion", right, so all these Muslims are brought up to be violent and intolerant because that's just how they are. Despite the fact that the ME has been destabilised for literally decades at this point, their democracies and leaders getting caught in Cold War shenanigans, wars in their country, invasions from the USSR and the USA, and widespread poverty, poor education, and corruption, it is Islam that is the cause of this. I bet you also think that it's hip-hop and gangster culture that causes black people to cause crime, rather than generations of political and economic persecution to keep them in poverty and segregated away from whites.
"Muslims are not a victimized group" says Pantz Master as he writes up a few paragraphs smearing all 1.7 billion of them while simultaneously attacking those rascally leftists. "The leftist narrative is a lie" says Pantz Master as he bold-facedly makes up a whole bunch of nonsense.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51542002]Imagine the chaos if someone was talking about cultural inoculation against Islam.[/QUOTE]
Yeh lol its weird that people hold the free world to a higher standard than Saudi Arabia
[editline]17th December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51542509]Thanks for the history lesson, but all of that was pretty much a non-sequitor. You basically just said "you're wrong, the left [I]does[/I] give Muslims agency!" and then you didn't back up that claim at all.
My problem with the left is thus:
If we lived in a world that had 1.7 billion Mormons, the left would flip out and do everything in their power to ridicule, criticize, and ultimately demonize the religion. They would not stop talking about it. It would be among the left's list of biggest problems with the world.
Why? Because Mormonism is a religion of white westerners. They are the oppressors! Their oppression must be resisted by brave souls who dare to stand up to the evil Mormon lobby!
What we have instead is a religion of 1.7 billion people that is [I]worse[/I] than Mormonism when it comes to the average adherent's beliefs and values. "Moderate Islam", meaning the median belief structure among the world population of Muslims, ranks worse than anything seen in Europe or the United States. But instead of criticism we find the left making common cause with apologists, and even extremists at times for this religion. See Glenn Greenwald's Twitter, or the entire Young Turks Channel on YouTube for evidence of this.
IF the reality was that Islam was simply a peaceful religion, under assault from all sides by an evil Western effort to suppress and marginalize Muslims, that would be another story. But we see what Europe has done to accommodate Muslims. No other society in the history of the world has been so welcoming to outsiders. Muslims are not a victimized group in the world, especially in the West (overall). The leftist narrative is a lie.[/QUOTE]
Oh okay I guess you understand the left really well, thank you for telling me what I think, that's cool. Us leftists defend Muslims wherever possible, look at all the leftists endlessly defending Saudi Arabia for its atrocities. We don't blindly defend Islam, the point is that Islam is not the root cause of the problem, the problem is the brutal geopolitics of the Middle East, and so we defend against people labelling Islam as evil, and we defend against ignorant attacks against Muslims. It has literally nothing to do with race at all whatsoever, you're the one making it about race. That's the problem, you and many others try to reduce an incredibly complex issue that neither of us could hope to understand without studying it in depth for years down to race and religion.
Frankly, it has nothing to do with being 'the left' anyway, it's not a hive mind, it's not even a single ideology, don't lump us together like that, that's as dumb as when people say all right wingers are racists.
[quote]If we lived in a world that had 1.7 billion Mormons, the left would flip out and do everything in their power to ridicule, criticize, and ultimately demonize the religion. They would not stop talking about it. It would be among the left's list of biggest problems with the world.[/quote]
Lol you mean like we do with Christianity of which there's more than Muslims? You know it's only a tiny sect of the Left that reduces things to race and religion in the same way some on the Right do, that talks about white men as oppressors and harbors a hatred for white people. A tiny tiny sect.
[quote]"Moderate Islam", meaning the median belief structure among the world population of Muslims, ranks worse than anything seen in Europe or the United States. [/quote]
Do you have a basis for this? Considering a lot of the mass polling among the international community of Muslims, the biggest group of which is in South East Asia, they're not far off Europe and the US.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51542509]Thanks for the history lesson, but all of that was pretty much a non-sequitor. You basically just said "you're wrong, the left [I]does[/I] give Muslims agency!" and then you didn't back up that claim at all.
My problem with the left is thus:
If we lived in a world that had 1.7 billion Mormons, the left would flip out and do everything in their power to ridicule, criticize, and ultimately demonize the religion. They would not stop talking about it. It would be among the left's list of biggest problems with the world.
Why? Because Mormonism is a religion of white westerners. They are the oppressors! Their oppression must be resisted by brave souls who dare to stand up to the evil Mormon lobby!
What we have instead is a religion of 1.7 billion people that is [I]worse[/I] than Mormonism when it comes to the average adherent's beliefs and values. "Moderate Islam", meaning the median belief structure among the world population of Muslims, ranks worse than anything seen in Europe or the United States. But instead of criticism we find the left making common cause with apologists, and even extremists at times for this religion. See Glenn Greenwald's Twitter, or the entire Young Turks Channel on YouTube for evidence of this.
IF the reality was that Islam was simply a peaceful religion, under assault from all sides by an evil Western effort to suppress and marginalize Muslims, that would be another story. But we see what Europe has done to accommodate Muslims. No other society in the history of the world has been so welcoming to outsiders. Muslims are not a victimized group in the world, especially in the West (overall). The leftist narrative is a lie.[/QUOTE]
Speaking of backing things up, quote someone in this thread who is a lefty defending the topic. Otherwise there's no double standard here.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51542509]
If we lived in a world that had 1.7 billion Mormons, the left would flip out and do everything in their power to ridicule, criticize, and ultimately demonize the religion. They would not stop talking about it. It would be among the left's list of biggest problems with the world.
Why? Because Mormonism is a religion of white westerners. They are the oppressors! Their oppression must be resisted by brave souls who dare to stand up to the evil Mormon lobby!
[/QUOTE]
Have you heard of The Book of Mormon? Pretty sure that makes fun of Mormons for a few hours. And it's not because they're white. It's because mormons are fucking crazy.
I don't think your issue is as much with the left as it is your fanatical anti-islam viewpoint. Especially when you're pretending the average Muslim doesn't practice their faith peacefully.
Like, nobody's going to defend Saudi Arabia on this. But you need to stop treating all Muslims like some kind of enemy. Also goddamn is it hard to not fuck up formatting on mobile.
The sooner we abandon Saudi Arabia and start supporting the more moderate Muslim countries the quicker the region will see peace.
[Quote] But we see what Europe has done to accommodate Muslims. No other society in the history of the world has been so welcoming to outsiders. [/QUOTE]
This is not true. Ancient and current Muslim cities have churches and even whole Jewish quarters, there are also plenty of Asian countries where Muslims, Christians and buddist live together.
Europe is not the holy grail of welcoming outsiders.
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;51540694]Why are these people our allies, again?[/QUOTE]
we have plenty of people in this country who feel the same way about liberals.
[editline]17th December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=taipan;51542746]This is not true. Ancient and current Muslim cities have churches and even whole Jewish quarters, there are also plenty of Asian countries where Muslims, Christians and buddist live together.
Europe is not the holy grail of welcoming outsiders.[/QUOTE]
eh there really isnt many asian countries where muslims and jews arent reduced to 2nd class citizens. china has like 50+M muslims and theyre treated like garbage and are forcibly kept in one part of the country, it doesnt really get better in the rest of south east asia where you have a mix of oligarchies and dictatorships
in ancient times though? theres quite a lot of cities that were melting pots
If you read the source of the shitty article you can see that they picked out the inflamatory parts to make headlines and that the issue is actually much more difficult and complicated
[quote]The report also enumerated "the currents that threaten national security: a) the contemporary intellectual schools of thought – Westernization, atheism, liberalism, and secularism; b) the extremist takfiri streams; and c) the partisan and sectarian streams and the fomenters of schism and conflict."[/quote]
[quote]It should be noted that[B] in March 2015[/B], the Education Ministry had launched a project called "Fatin ('being smart') – A National Project for Protecting Schoolboys and Schoolgirls from Deviant Behavior." Senior ministry officials emphasized that its objective was to "provide spiritual inoculation for schoolboys and schoolgirls, and to protect them from drugs, dangerous behavior, and deviant ideas, by reinforcing religious, social, and moral values by means of programs involving training, lectures, workshops, and more." It was further reported that the project would protect from "security, social, cultural, health, and economic threats."[4] [B]For this project, the ministry did not list ideologies, but did hint at ISIS[/B] – in contrast to the "Immunity" project.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51542509]Thanks for the history lesson, but all of that was pretty much a non-sequitor. You basically just said "you're wrong, the left [I]does[/I] give Muslims agency!" and then you didn't back up that claim at all.
My problem with the left is thus:
If we lived in a world that had 1.7 billion Mormons, the left would flip out and do everything in their power to ridicule, criticize, and ultimately demonize the religion. They would not stop talking about it. It would be among the left's list of biggest problems with the world.
Why? Because Mormonism is a religion of white westerners. They are the oppressors! Their oppression must be resisted by brave souls who dare to stand up to the evil Mormon lobby!
What we have instead is a religion of 1.7 billion people that is [I]worse[/I] than Mormonism when it comes to the average adherent's beliefs and values. "Moderate Islam", meaning the median belief structure among the world population of Muslims, ranks worse than anything seen in Europe or the United States. But instead of criticism we find the left making common cause with apologists, and even extremists at times for this religion. See Glenn Greenwald's Twitter, or the entire Young Turks Channel on YouTube for evidence of this.
IF the reality was that Islam was simply a peaceful religion, under assault from all sides by an evil Western effort to suppress and marginalize Muslims, that would be another story. But we see what Europe has done to accommodate Muslims. No other society in the history of the world has been so welcoming to outsiders. Muslims are not a victimized group in the world, especially in the West (overall). The leftist narrative is a lie.[/QUOTE]
I'll respond:
I don't like Mormonism or Islam. They're both pretty shit. But if Mormons were being discriminated against, or countries were threatening their freedom of religion, I would speak up and be very concerned. I'd be concerned if evangelical Christian assholes who don't believe in climate change or evolution started having their religion restricted and banned.
I went off on a tangent in that post, but I originally meant to bring up how the left [I]generally[/I], but not always, defends Islam [I]in the name of defending freedom of religion[/I]. Effectively the only Christian group I've ever seen left-wing friends talk about restricting freedoms from is the Westboro Baptist Church, which is understandable since they're mostly a front for lawyers to make money by inciting violence.
I support the right of anyone to believe in Islam. I would support the right of anyone to be a goddamn Branch Davidian, so long as they didn't actually go out and hurt anyone. If an American wants to be a Wahhabist Muslim, that's their goddamn right and they're free to do so - but once they step over boundaries about hate speech, inciting violence, or engaging in violence (which they probably will since they're Wahhabist), they forfeit that freedom. Is it that complicated to understand? If a Muslim hates LGBT marriage because of their religion, okay, that's their right. Will I criticize them for it? Yes. Will I try to stop them from implementing that view? Yes. If a Christian does the same thing, okay. I vehemently disagree, but they have a right to hold that view and they have a right to hold a religious belief that reaffirms that view. They're cunts, but it's their right to be a cunt. I don't want to ban either religion because of that belief, because I don't like restricting freedom of speech because I disagree with the person.
Not all groups within Islam are peaceful. Nobody I know denies that - you only have to look at ISIS and the Taliban to come to that conclusion. But you're oversimplifying your opposition's actual position - nobody I know thinks that Islam is an inherently peaceful religion that can never do any wrong, being assaulted by the evil Westerners. Nobody. It's a religion. And people have a right to practice that religion so long as they don't cross certain civic and criminal boundaries.
If you don't blow people up, I don't care what you believe. If you blow people up, I don't care whether you're an anarchist, a Muslim, a Christian, an environmentalist, a Communist, or anything else. You blew someone up. No matter what motivated you to do that, you've forfeited your freedoms. End of. What's a "lie" about that narrative?
[editline]17th December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=taipan;51542746]This is not true. Ancient and current Muslim cities have churches and even whole Jewish quarters, there are also plenty of Asian countries where Muslims, Christians and buddist live together.
Europe is not the holy grail of welcoming outsiders.[/QUOTE]
Islam has historically been one of the most pluralistic Western religions out there. There's even a term, jizya, for the tax levied on non-Muslim residents of a Muslim state as a "protection fee" more or less. Non-Muslim religious groups inside caliphates or Muslim states were historically permitted to have their own legal systems and court systems separate from Muslim ones. Non-Muslims were [I]exempt[/I] from military service - because they paid the non-Muslim tax for protection anyways.
In comparison to the forced Christianization of much of Europe by the Romans, including Theodosius I banning the practice of all non-Christian pagan religions, the history of religious pluralism in Islam is commendable. I'm not going to even imply that it was perfect, because there was loads of religious violence, but it was a mainstream, accepted opinion at many points during the history of Islam and has effectively never been a mainstream viewpoint in Christianity. The Ottoman Empire marked the most major institutional non-pluralistic Islam in the Middle East, but hardly on the scale of Christianity.
When the Moors got booted out of Spain, the Alhambra Decree forcibly removed all Jews from Iberia, followed by Muslims, in order to Christianize the area. There's been much less religious pluralism in Europe, historically, than in the Muslim world until [I]very recently[/I] on a historical timescale.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51542509]
My problem with the left is thus:
If we lived in a world that had 1.7 billion Mormons, the left would flip out and do everything in their power to ridicule, criticize, and ultimately demonize the religion. They would not stop talking about it. It would be among the left's list of biggest problems with the world.
[/QUOTE]
And you accuse other people of reaching non-sequitors. You just spun a complete hypothetical and painted the entire left with it.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51542002]Imagine the chaos if someone was talking about cultural inoculation against Islam.[/QUOTE]
Imagine the chaos if the russians won the cold war. Imagine the chaos if the south won the civil war. None of these have anything to do with the thread im just here trying to expose some double standard i just made up in my head.
Saudia Arabia =/= Islam
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51543718]Saudia Arabia =/= Islam[/QUOTE]
still using islam to try and control the masses tho
[QUOTE=ironman17;51540814]Sounds like we need to inoculate them against fanaticism, fascism and barbarism. Fuck the Prime Directive.[/QUOTE]
Okay Picard, how exactly do you plan on going through with this without sparking a major multiple nation conflict? The Middle East is a powder keg full of anti-US sentiment, and the rest of "their" world will see this as a personal assault on them as well.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51542509]Thanks for the history lesson, but all of that was pretty much a non-sequitor. You basically just said "you're wrong, the left [I]does[/I] give Muslims agency!" and then you didn't back up that claim at all.
My problem with the left is thus:
If we lived in a world that had 1.7 billion Mormons, the left would flip out and do everything in their power to ridicule, criticize, and ultimately demonize the religion. They would not stop talking about it. It would be among the left's list of biggest problems with the world.
Why? Because Mormonism is a religion of white westerners. They are the oppressors! Their oppression must be resisted by brave souls who dare to stand up to the evil Mormon lobby!
What we have instead is a religion of 1.7 billion people that is [I]worse[/I] than Mormonism when it comes to the average adherent's beliefs and values. "Moderate Islam", meaning the median belief structure among the world population of Muslims, ranks worse than anything seen in Europe or the United States. But instead of criticism we find the left making common cause with apologists, and even extremists at times for this religion. See Glenn Greenwald's Twitter, or the entire Young Turks Channel on YouTube for evidence of this.
IF the reality was that Islam was simply a peaceful religion, under assault from all sides by an evil Western effort to suppress and marginalize Muslims, that would be another story. But we see what Europe has done to accommodate Muslims. No other society in the history of the world has been so welcoming to outsiders. Muslims are not a victimized group in the world, especially in the West (overall). The leftist narrative is a lie.[/QUOTE]
I really can't help but laugh when you say what we'd care about as a nebulous group, without a hint of irony
because you'd literally lose your shit if we proposed all sorts of radical things you want to do based on our assumptions
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51542002]Imagine the chaos if someone was talking about cultural inoculation against Islam.[/QUOTE]
Because that'd be bullshit if we did
We should be teaching kids proper morals, not telling them what religion is good or bad.
[QUOTE=Butthurter;51544840]they are the model culture and nation for most of the sunni islam countries
it disgusts me that there are still people here unaware of the shit that goes down there[/QUOTE]
While that is certainly true, they're not, and no one really is, the representative of "Islam".
Saudi Arabia is a horrible place with horrible backwards rules and uses religion in a very negative way
I don't think acknowledging that means that I have to say "That's what Islam is like though so it's all explained" because there are peaceful muslims
I don't think anyone (even fundamentalists) actively look up to Saudi Arabia and says "wow they're so muslim, we should be more like them!"
I wouldn't really say they "set an example" for other muslims, but honestly they do embody the worst traits of islam and it's ridiculous that they're actively trying to suppress free and intelligent thought.
[QUOTE] Saying "The left thinks Muslims have no agency" is such a stupid, stupid oversimplification. I think they do - and I think that these radical fundamentalists have demonized Western culture and Western values in part due to the West dicking around in their shit for so long. [I][B]The West is absolutely at partial fault.
[/B][/I]
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] If you don't blow people up, I don't care what you believe. If you blow people up, I don't care whether you're an anarchist, a Muslim, a Christian, an environmentalist, a Communist, or anything else. You blew someone up. [I][B]No matter what motivated you to do that, you've forfeited your freedoms.End of. What's a "lie" about that narrative?[/B][/I] [/QUOTE]
These from the same poster seem to contradict each other.
[editline]17th December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51544874]
I don't think acknowledging that means that I have to say "That's what Islam is like though so it's all explained" because there are peaceful muslims[/QUOTE]
No you don't have tell us that there are peaceful muslims either because we know.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51543718]Saudia Arabia =/= Islam[/QUOTE]
It's totally not like that the holy city of Islam is in Saudi Arabia or anything like that. A city which is forbidden for everyone who isn't a muslim. But sure, go and pretend that Saudi Arabia isn't the ringleader of Islamic faith, and also of all those extremist hate preachers they fly over to European countries all the time along with their neighboring oil states. And we are supposed to tolerate those people when all they do is to stir up shit all the goddamn time.
This flies in the face of the opinion that Islam is a tolerant, peaceful religion when an entire country (population 30 million) made up entirely of muslims has a Government ideology of indoctrination against western values, atheism and Liberalism.
The irony being that the Liberals are the apologists for anything wayward with the muslim world.
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51545055]This flies in the face of the opinion that Islam is a tolerant, peaceful religion when an entire country (population 30 million) made up entirely of muslims has a Government ideology of indoctrination against western values.
The irony being that the Liberals are the apologists for anything wayward with the muslim world.[/QUOTE]
you generalize every group you can because it means you have to do less thinking about the specifics and the nuances of the discussion
it's easier when you define things you don't like in ways that don't support the people you dislike, amiright
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51545063]you generalize every group you can because it means you have to do less thinking about the specifics and the nuances of the discussion
it's easier when you define things you don't like in ways that don't support the people you dislike, amiright[/QUOTE]
It's easier for you to accuse someone of something or other when they say something you don't like rather than reason your opinion.
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51545076]It's easier for you to accuse someone of something or other when they say something you don't like rather than reason your opinion.[/QUOTE]
You generalized my opinion as a liberal as to how I feel about a group, you put words in every liberals mouth and yet you see no problem with that
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51545083]You generalized my opinion as a liberal as to how I feel about a group, you put words in every liberals mouth and yet you see no problem with that[/QUOTE]
Where did I say who or what that I considered Liberal? You are generalising, not me.
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51545088]Where did I say who or what that I considered Liberal? You are generalising, not me.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]The irony being that the Liberals are the apologists for anything wayward with the muslim world.[/QUOTE]
Right because this isn't generalizing, nor sticking an opinion into my mouth, and by extension, other liberals?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51545098]Right because this isn't generalizing, nor sticking an opinion into my mouth, and by extension, other liberals?[/QUOTE]
It is quite a usual debate mechanism here to try to deflect the subject matter to being something else entirely rather than have to debate the subject matter.
I never stuck an opinion in your mouth because I never said at any point that I thought you were a liberal, you told me you were.
[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51545131]It is quite a usual debate mechanism here to try to deflect the subject matter to being something else entirely rather than have to debate the subject matter.
I never stuck an opinion in your mouth because I never said at any point that I thought you were a liberal, you told me you were.[/QUOTE]
which, you then, stick an opinion in my mouth by saying i must defend certain groups as you say I must because you're generalizing
[QUOTE=Perrine;51540663][url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-islam-inoculate-children-education-against-westernisation-atheism-liberalism-secularism-a7478761.html[/url][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]They were listed as threats to “ideological security”[/QUOTE]
Name one single time in history when this is a bad thing
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51542509]Thanks for the history lesson, but all of that was pretty much a non-sequitor. You basically just said "you're wrong, the left [I]does[/I] give Muslims agency!" and then you didn't back up that claim at all.
My problem with the left is thus:
If we lived in a world that had 1.7 billion Mormons, the left would flip out and do everything in their power to ridicule, criticize, and ultimately demonize the religion. They would not stop talking about it. It would be among the left's list of biggest problems with the world.
Why? Because Mormonism is a religion of white westerners. They are the oppressors! Their oppression must be resisted by brave souls who dare to stand up to the evil Mormon lobby!
What we have instead is a religion of 1.7 billion people that is [I]worse[/I] than Mormonism when it comes to the average adherent's beliefs and values. "Moderate Islam", meaning the median belief structure among the world population of Muslims, ranks worse than anything seen in Europe or the United States. But instead of criticism we find the left making common cause with apologists, and even extremists at times for this religion. See Glenn Greenwald's Twitter, or the entire Young Turks Channel on YouTube for evidence of this.
IF the reality was that Islam was simply a peaceful religion, under assault from all sides by an evil Western effort to suppress and marginalize Muslims, that would be another story. But we see what Europe has done to accommodate Muslims. No other society in the history of the world has been so welcoming to outsiders. Muslims are not a victimized group in the world, especially in the West (overall). The leftist narrative is a lie.[/QUOTE]
sets up a rule, then immediately breaks it. i'm pretty sure i've seen comedy skits about this
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