Biden: "Transgender Discrimination Is 'The Civil Rights Issue Of Our Time" - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;38276619]You have no legit reason why the word gravity should offend you. There are people who will feel bad if you call them the way they don't want to be.[/QUOTE] Maybe he's over/underweight and has horrible self esteem issues because of it. Thanks for literally bringing him down with gravity. :v:

[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;38276082]That's fantastic, if someone wants to be a girl then they can be a girl, but until such point in time they can mystically suck their testicles inside themselves, grow a uterus, fallopian tubes and convert their testes into ovaries and have their cock magically transform into previously aforementioned uterus as well as totally shift their bodies entire chemistry and biology, then they will always be male. I'm not saying that transgenders be referred to as their original biological sex or anything, if a guy feels more comfortable viewing themselves as a girl then I have no qualms with that or addressing them as a girl/she/her etc. but the fact is they are not [b]female.[/b][/QUOTE] This is pretty important if you're a doctor doing surgery on them or something, but it doesn't really matter all that much.

[QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;38276724]Maybe he's over/underweight and has horrible self esteem issues because of it. Thanks for literally bringing him down with gravity. :v:[/QUOTE] To be entirely honest it's hard for me to not to consider that as actual possibility...

no discrimination of bronies is the civil rights issue of our time we are a persecuted people, and i'm sure everypony agrees

to people who think female identification automatically mean's they're female yes because a surgical sex change totally genetically alters a person, yeah, definitely does! Except it doesn't, it changes ones identity and non-genetic metaphoric make up of "Who that person now represents" [QUOTE=Awesomecaek;38276055]So you will stand on emotionally harming people because of strict semantics?[/QUOTE] why is everyone misunderstanding LordCrypto so terribly [QUOTE=Awesomecaek;38276619]You have no legit reason why the word gravity should offend you. There are people who will feel bad if you call them the way they don't want to be.[/QUOTE] "Man, I bet Lord has such a high gravity, he has an orbit" That sure could offend him However, still not getting his point. I'll call a male with a female identity a female but still know that genetically by birth they are male. That doesn't make it right to call them that automatically unless you're speaking to someone on the basis of raw, unbiased genetics. genetics after birth cannot be changed like a name or a face these days. Identity can. A person can change their personality, their entire world view, their gender identity, their face, everything, but you simply cannot change the fact that a dna test still says who it is. Once we are able to take a male adult, and change it, to a purely genetic level a female adult, then that would be true female sex, not just through identity. [QUOTE=Fortesqueh;38276274]So much nitpicking. Just let people identify themselves how they wish 'n move on.[/QUOTE] We are, we just nod to genetics. At least what I'm specifically trying to.

[QUOTE=obdob;38277281]no discrimination of bronies is the civil rights issue of our time we are a persecuted people, and i'm sure everypony agrees[/QUOTE] I'd bet my house there's actually bronies out there who believe that

[snip].

[QUOTE=RobbL;38277454]I'd bet my house there's actually bronies out there who believe that[/QUOTE] there are furries in SL who act as if Furry is a race if I used a furry avatar and I got discriminated because of it, I sure as shit wouldn't use the race card. They would, however. [editline]1st November 2012[/editline] now about that house

this is why i hate arguing this point its the mass debate subtitle to a t

[QUOTE=J!NX;38277375] "Man, I bet Lord has such a high gravity, he has an orbit" That sure could offend him However, still not getting his point. I'll call a male with a female identity a female but still know that genetically by birth they are male. That doesn't make it right to call them that automatically unless you're speaking to someone on the basis of raw, unbiased genetics. genetics after birth cannot be changed like a name or a face these days. Identity can. A person can change their personality, their entire world view, their gender identity, their face, everything, but you simply cannot change the fact that a dna test still says who it is. Once we are able to take a male adult, and change it, to a purely genetic level a female adult, then that would be true female sex, not just through identity. [/QUOTE] Yes, such person can be in biologically described and proven to be originally of whatever gender. I deliberately choose to be literally imprecise when talking about the person in all cases when the imprecision wouldn't cause actual issues (the doctor, actual procreation etc) simply out of reasons of courtesy and preference of the person.

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;38277695]Yes, such person can be in biologically described and proven to be originally of whatever gender. I deliberately choose to be literally imprecise when talking about the person in all cases when the imprecision wouldn't cause actual issues (the doctor, actual procreation etc) simply out of reasons of courtesy and preference of the person.[/QUOTE] you don't need to be inprecise use man/woman and then you don't have the male/female issue problem solved

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;38277716]you don't need to be inprecise use man/woman and then you don't have the male/female issue problem solved[/QUOTE] Or I will use common sense and rather distinguish between the times when the difference matters and when it doesn't.

[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;38273515]Glasgow might just be the only place where that sort of shit is possible.[/QUOTE] Glasgow and the beautiful hamlet of Kilmarnock.

[QUOTE=Call Me Kiwi;38275454]Science to the rescue: [IMG]http://images.tutorvista.com/content/heredity-and-evolution/human-sex-chromosomes.jpeg[/IMG] This way you don't have to deal with circular logic crap.[/QUOTE] I don't know why people are rating this agree when it is actually wrong. There are men with XX chromosomes and women with XY chromosomes. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRY[/url]

[QUOTE=Farrelm;38273829]it's more of the fact that there's very little trans education in the lgbt community. the ignorance ive seen comes from a lack of understanding that gender isnt determined by sex, or they think of the stereotype of a man in drag with a 5 o'clock shadow and an awfully stuffed bra (a stereotype that terrifies some transgirls, myself included). or that because their sex and gender match everyones should.[/QUOTE] I'm trans myself and for the longest time (until after joining FP in fact) all I knew about transgenderism was exactly those negative stereotypes. And that combined with a father who would beat me for doing something as stupid as playing dolls with my sister when I was younger then later a stepfather who insisted that men had to be masculine caused me to pretty much lead a completely empty life. There's too little education on either side really. [QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;38275986]If you have a cock and balls, the chances are pretty damn good that you are genetically and anatomically male, regardless of whether or not you view yourself as a woman. I don't get how this is so offensive or difficult to grasp, male and female, and man and woman are two entirely different concepts.[/QUOTE] It's not what is being said that's offensive. It's how it's being said. It's being forced down the transperson's throat and they're already acutely aware of that fact. The harder you try to push it on them for it, the higher the chance you're just going to cause them to have a breakdown. And in addition to that the way you (no specifically you, I forget which point exactly you are arguing. I'm speaking more of people like LordCrypto here) are saying it comes across as "you're a male/female period, have no hope!" which is already something that the transperson you would be talking to already is aware of and already does nothing but cause them to be depressed over it because it is the one thing they want most and have no chance of ever having the way things currently are.

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;38277716]you don't need to be inprecise use man/woman and then you don't have the male/female issue problem solved[/QUOTE] or stop being a nerd and just call people what they want to be called problem solved [editline]1st November 2012[/editline] no offense to all them real ass nerdz out there

[QUOTE=LordCrypto;38277716]you don't need to be inprecise use man/woman and then you don't have the male/female issue problem solved[/QUOTE] having urges to put people in boxes ain't healthy bro (and it's worth noting that there are people neither male nor female in regards to gender and sex)

It's pretty well established that both sex and gender are not black and white, but spectrums that's a metaphor

[QUOTE=Atlascore;38274908]I hope you enjoy that insulting forum title you'll be getting from a raging transgender FP user in 3.. 2..[/QUOTE] I don't know why they would get mad. All I said was my personal preference regarding the issue. I said I wasn't against people switching genders, but if they told me they were transgender I might not be attracted to them. Although I've never had romantic relations with a transgender person.

well I'm not attracted sexually to people technically defined as men. there's nothing crazy or wrong about that.

[QUOTE=Boxbot219;38277806]I don't know why people are rating this agree when it is actually wrong. There are men with XX chromosomes and women with XY chromosomes. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRY[/url][/QUOTE] People were fighting about what defines gender, so seeming I'm the only one who could remember high school biology, I posted that. [QUOTE=Bobie;38275399]but then if you flip that around, a woman that cannot give birth is therefore no longer female you then have you explain that the woman who cannot give birth is a woman for other reasons which goes into circular logic territory[/QUOTE] So... To be correct for .005% of the population of the United States with this condition of having a gene override the normal sex chromosomes, along with the 99.995% of the population without that condition. In order to define gender in a way which is not subject to opinion. You would need to look at a person's genetics in entirety, not just chromosomes 23 and 24.

I don't understand why some people are defiant on making sure that 'real females and males understand that they will never be what that actually feel like'. Is it helping someone to provide a gateway to discrimination on the basis of sex? No, it isn't. By making it a point to label someone based on their sex, you are helping no one and hurting many.

excuse me I am a gravitykin and this discussion is triggering me

[QUOTE=Dori;38279203]excuse me I am a gravitykin and this discussion is triggering me[/QUOTE] fuck you antigrav is the only way

[QUOTE=Dori;38275977]those are secondary sexual characteristics[/QUOTE] Still in a lot of ways those secondary sexual characteristics influence a huge set of people's behaviours. I think that's one of the reasons why so many people have a hard time accepting MTF or FTM as the other gender on a more subjective level. Because their bodies don't have the same hormonal makeup that hugely hugely influences people's behaviour. Sure medication changes parts of the makeup but not all of it. At least that's why I think people have that hard time accepting. And I know that is one of the reasons why I myself have a hard time accepting it. And in a sense compared to differences in sexual orientation I have certain doubts that this view will change much. It's probably also the reason why quite many in the L and G communities have a hard time accepting the T community. Another important thing comes from the terminology. While in specific circles Gender and Sex are different things. In popular public circles both are synonymous. As are Female<>Woman Male<>Man. Sexual orientation on the other hand is a very seperate subject. Sure it spurs a lot of emotions, but people generally don't have to wrap their hands around a completely new concept.

[QUOTE=Speedhax;38274629]Transgender discrimination is a complicated issue. On one hand I fully support their right to switch genders. On the other I would never consider them a romantic partner.[/QUOTE] This is a common position. However, most who hold it aren't honest ( or something like it, I don't quite know how to put it into words) enough to state the second half along with the first. An example is a former friend of mine who made fun of a ftm's penis. I gave her crap about it, and she didn't understand why. She was pro-every politically correct liberal viewpoint in theory, but couldn't accept that not everything in the world was created to please her and her whims. Having had sex with her in the past, I made sure to point out (IN PRIVATE, unlike she did with him) that she wasn't exactly perfect either.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;38273727]Actually, for transgenderism, couldn't one take testosterone medication if they feel like they're a woman. But some men just want to be a woman, estrogen or not.[/QUOTE] oh god why in every transgender thread you post in

[QUOTE=Call Me Kiwi;38278941]People were fighting about what defines gender, so seeming I'm the only one who could remember high school biology, I posted that. So... To be correct for .005% of the population of the United States with this condition of having a gene override the normal sex chromosomes, along with the 99.995% of the population without that condition. In order to define gender in a way which is not subject to opinion. You would need to look at a person's genetics in entirety, not just chromosomes 23 and 24.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Atlascore;38275784]I highly doubt that it's just coincidence that 99% of males have XY chromosomes and 99% of females have XX chromosomes.[/QUOTE] as i said, it would make no difference to my argument of 99% of males were XX it still shows that chromosome is not an accurate measurement of gender nor is fertility nor is having a vagina i'm waiting for someone to show me a 100% accurate biological feature defined by gender

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;38273727]Actually, for transgenderism, couldn't one take testosterone medication if they feel like they're a woman. But some men just want to be a woman, estrogen or not.[/QUOTE] Don't you mean they take estrogen?

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;38273522]Jesus fuck, for real? Excuse my lack of knowledge but that's just horrible. How can anybody excuse "my kind of abnormality is okay but yours is not"?[/QUOTE] It happens all the time, people put down others in order to make themselves feel big. [editline]2nd November 2012[/editline] A perfect example is racism among minorities