Multiple unions have expressed solidarity with the Occupy movement. For those of you who are wondering exactly why a general strike organized by people in tents would hurt anything, this is how. If you've been watching the news recently, you're probably convinced the movement is dead. This is not true. It is simply in a metamorphosis.
I'm part of the Occupy movement, and our group is gearing up for multiple actions in the Spring. It is simply invigorating, being given the opportunity to affect real change in the country. The only way anybody on this board could possibly understand the movement is to take part in it, and that won't happen when you're behind a computer. Although, it's very easy to ignore the problems with this country while you're behind one.
I for one will be assisting with May Day, both in organization and in direct action. I encourage all of you to support your local groups if you truly want to find out what it's about. There is information all around you on how to become a part of the movement.
[b]Edit:[/b] Anyone with questions, feel free to PM them to my inbox.
Excellent [url=http://occupywallst.org/article/election-or-not-revolutionary-wave-grows/]article[/url] regarding the above post. The same thing is happening with the Greek and Spanish movements.
[QUOTE=muesli23;34627640]The Direct Action working group is full of anarchists - and they know how to get the job done. They've organized a very large portion of the large rallies and whatnot.
Also, capitalism in the US is in decline, and new polls suggest people are developing a positive view of socialism.[/QUOTE]
We're not a capitalist country anymore. We've moved onto a system of corporatism which is pretty much a bastardized combination of socialism and capitalism.
Pretty much everything that sucks about capitalism and everything that sucks about socialism balled up into one god awful economic system.
Petty are the attempts to distinguish between capitalism, "corporatism", and "crony capitalism". A common rhetoric of the center-left and libertarian right to justify the very system of greed and exploitation in which we live. It's a ridiculous notion that it's possible to not have corporate monopoly [B]without regulation[/B].
I wanna join in, simply because I kind of want a day off.
[QUOTE=muesli23;34628213]Petty are the attempts to distinguish between capitalism, "corporatism", and "crony capitalism". A common rhetoric of the center-left and libertarian right to justify the very system of greed and exploitation in which we live. It's a ridiculous notion that it's possible to not have corporate monopoly [B]without regulation[/B].[/QUOTE]
Well we do have regulation, but it's either ineffectual, not executed, or in shambles.
[QUOTE=muesli23;34627747]Converting an abandoned building filled with squatters to a community center? Self-defense against police brutality? Some dude burning a flag? The horrors![/QUOTE]
I'm talking about when they broke into city hall and started smashing and vandalizing shit.
[QUOTE=Splarg!;34628332]I'm talking about when they broke into city hall and started smashing and vandalizing shit.[/QUOTE]
As in every movement, the idiots speak the loudest. The Occupy movement has been vilified as a a bunch of freeloaders and vandals, even though the large majority of them are not. Similarly on the opposite side, the Tea Party, an economic movement, has been vilified as a movement of racism, of which it clearly is not.
Are there vandals in the Occupy movement and racists in the Tea Party? Of course there are. However, the vast majority of them are not, and it's merely an attempt made by their political opponents to undermine their success.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34628281]Well we do have regulation, but it's either ineffectual, not executed, or in shambles.[/QUOTE]
Or bought out. I was referring to the anarcho-cap notion that it would be wonderful if there was no state, but there was a free-market.
[QUOTE=Splarg!;34628332]I'm talking about when they broke into city hall and started smashing and vandalizing shit.[/QUOTE]
Stupid act of vandalism, but I feel no sympathy for the city either. Also, this is the way Oakland tends to be (not justifying it, just saying).
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;34628421]Similarly on the opposite side, the Tea Party, an economic movement, has been vilified as a movement of racism, of which it clearly is not. [/QUOTE]
ho ho ho no you don't
the reason why we say the tea party is racist is because they favour economic structures that unfairly favour one race over another.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34628517]ho ho ho no you don't
the reason why we say the tea party is racist is because they favour economic structures that unfairly favour one race over another.[/QUOTE]
but... but.. states rights!!
Can someone name anything Occupy protesters have actually fixed or changed?
There are no Occupy candidates. There are no Occupy laws. There are no Occupy representatives. What is the end goal, here?
I feel like this movement doesn't understand how anything works. Are we just supposed to strike until unemployment goes down? Until tax reform is passed? The Occupy movement hasn't put forward any unified statement on anything. What are we even protesting?
You don't just get to say things like "End Corruption!". How? How are we going to do that? Anyone?
either they use the democratic system or they have to take arms and violently overthrow the government.
the democracy is so broken that even if there was a candidate or representative they'd never be elected.
[QUOTE=Regulas021;34628579]Can someone name anything Occupy protesters have actually fixed or changed?
There are no Occupy candidates. There are no Occupy laws. There are no Occupy representatives. What is the end goal, here?
I feel like this movement doesn't understand how anything works. Are we just supposed to strike until unemployment goes down? Until tax reform is passed? The Occupy movement hasn't put forward any unified statement on anything. What are we even protesting?
You don't just get to say things like "End Corruption!". How? How are we going to do that? Anyone?[/QUOTE]
Occupy is influencing politicians and creating grassroots social change. It doesn't hold the country hostage over the debt ceiling - it changes the national dialogue and how the Obama administration views Wall Street.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34628599]or they have to take arms and violently overthrow the government.[/QUOTE]
But first, class consciousness! This is where the outreach and DA working groups come in.
[QUOTE=Bobie;34627318]if you're only interested in it because it's 'what everyone else is doing' or 'its in the news', then it clearly isnt for you.[/QUOTE]
This is what it is in my area. I live in downtown Atlanta and nobody takes them seriously except for themselves. They had an occupy meeting at my school, and it was about 20 people, all of which were the same people as always, yelling about oppression and the right to protest and all this crap, but they have no goals or objectives.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34628599]either they use the democratic system or they have to take arms and violently overthrow the government.
the democracy is so broken that even if there was a candidate or representative they'd never be elected.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, right. Just like a revolution was required in 1900 when it was legal to hire private armies to kill your workers if they were on strike. Or when it was legal to fire workers if they didn't vote for you. Or when one could legally stand guard outside polling booths and throw anyone out who didn't vote for their candidate. Or when there was no such thing as the secret ballet. I guess if your knowledge of American history dates back to 1980 it might seem like the system is the worst its ever been
So, assuming the system is so broken that it's not even worth trying to use it, how do you plan to fix it? You're just going to overthrow the American government? Any plan on how to fix it once you've magically done that?
[QUOTE=muesli23;34628608]Occupy is influencing politicians and creating grassroots social change. It doesn't hold the country hostage over the debt ceiling - it changes the national dialogue and how the Obama administration views Wall Street.[/QUOTE]
Really? Like what? Name a single measurable case where a politicians decision was based on the Occupy Movement. Because when you look at organized protests, with defined goals, like the way the internet unified over SOPA, we see legitimate change. Name an example.
[QUOTE=Regulas021;34628662]Yeah, right. Just like a revolution was required in 1900 when it was legal to hire private armies to kill your workers if they were on strike. Or when it was legal to fire workers if they didn't vote for you. Or when one could legally stand guard outside polling booths and throw anyone out who didn't vote for their candidate. Or when there was no such thing as the secret ballet. I guess if your knowledge of American history dates back to 1980 it might seem like the system is the worst its ever been
So, assuming the system is so broken that it's not even worth trying to use it, how do you plan to fix it? You're just going to overthrow the American government? Any plan on how to fix it once you've magically done that?[/QUOTE]
uh i don't know what you are responding to
the occupy protestors are doing the best they can do, bring awareness to the issue.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34628517]ho ho ho no you don't
the reason why we say the tea party is racist is because they favour economic structures that unfairly favour one race over another.[/QUOTE]
You mean like affirmative action?
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;34628684]You mean like affirmative action?[/QUOTE]
i mean favouring wall street oligarchy and subjection of the many by the few.
these are tea party ideals. deregulation doesn't hurt the middle class as much as it does hurt the lower class and many of them are not white.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34628680]uh i don't know what you are responding to
the occupy protestors are doing the best they can do, bring awareness to the issue.[/QUOTE]
I was referring to the call for revolution.
What issue? Tax inequality? Income inequality? Unemployment? Rising tuition costs? Police Brutality? Censorship? Corporate influence over Washington? Shrinking middle class? Rising cost of living?
You can't just stand on a corner saying "THESE ARE BAD THINGS!" What is the solution?
[QUOTE=Regulas021;34628662]
Really? Like what? Name a single measurable case where a politicians decision was based on the Occupy Movement. Because when you look at organized protests, with defined goals, like the way the internet unified over SOPA, we see legitimate change. Name an example.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_movement#Political_impact[/url]
[editline]10th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Regulas021;34628719]
You can't just stand on a corner saying "THESE ARE BAD THINGS!" What is the solution?[/QUOTE]
You'll get different answers from different people.
[QUOTE=muesli23;34628722][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_movement#Political_impact[/url]
[editline]10th February 2012[/editline]
You'll get different answers from different people.[/QUOTE]
God, that's more depressing than if you'd said there hasn't been one.
So the movement managed to enact some low level regulation on Spanish Banks? Christ.
The "Outlawing Corporate Cash Undermining the Public Interest in our Elections and Democracy (OCCUPIED) Constitutional Amendment" was pretty great. It will be, anyway, if it passes. There's no organized call to contact representatives about it, though. No one is even trying to raise awareness on it.
[QUOTE=muesli23;34628722]You'll get different answers from different people.[/QUOTE]
Then you're describing a demographic, not a movement. A movement needs to have established goals and solutions to them. Gandhi wanted an end to British Influence in India. MLK pushed for directed political reforms in the South. There was a clear end game here.
One cannot expect political change without social change - unless your political change is appealing to the financial elite (hint: tea party). The 1% are doing everything they can to stop the flow of Occupy, because it's only the start.
They have several goals and targets that they wish to reach, and they have stated them very clearly several times. This stupid notion that they don't know what they want is up there with the idea that they are all just bums looking for a job, it's utter bullshit. The entire fucking movement is to draw attention to these problems and get people informed and have them fixed. They can't fix them, they can only bring awareness to the problems and put pressure on the people who can fix them.
[editline]9th February 2012[/editline]
Other than that, the only tool they have left to fix these problems is violence, which everyone wants to avoid.
The Tea Party isn't comprised of the financial elite. It's comprised of people looking at the National Debt rising exponentially every year, government spending being poured into an open hole, and absolutely no plan to change that. It's the fear that worthless government spending will be subsidized with higher taxes and no reform will be made to the way the government decides how to use taxpayer money.
I don't even know what you're trying to argue. Who's stopping the flow of Occupy? How does that have anything to do with stated goals? Am I just talking to a propaganda bot?
[QUOTE=thisispain;34628707]i mean favouring wall street oligarchy and subjection of the many by the few.
these are tea party ideals. deregulation doesn't hurt the middle class as much as it does hurt the lower class and many of them are not white.[/QUOTE]
Race has nothing to do with it, therefore it is not the issue. Personally, I believe race shouldn't even be recognized by the state.
[QUOTE=Regulas021;34628849]The Tea Party isn't comprised of the financial elite. It's comprised of people looking at the National Debt rising exponentially every year, government spending being poured into an open hole, and absolutely no plan to change that. It's the fear that worthless government spending will be subsidized with higher taxes and no reform will be made to the way the government decides how to use taxpayer money.
I don't even know what you're trying to argue. Who's stopping the flow of Occupy? How does that have anything to do with stated goals? Am I just talking to a propaganda bot?[/QUOTE]
I was saying the Tea Party got co-opted by the GOP and shit. Only the banks were opposed to the Tea Party.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;34628817]They have several goals and targets that they wish to reach, and they have stated them very clearly several times. This stupid notion that they don't know what they want is up there with the idea that they are all just bums looking for a job, it's utter bullshit. The entire fucking movement is to draw attention to these problems and get people informed and have them fixed. They can't fix them, they can only bring awareness to the problems and put pressure on the people who can fix them.
[editline]9th February 2012[/editline]
Other than that, the only tool they have left to fix these problems is violence, which everyone wants to avoid.[/QUOTE]
What. Are. These. Goals. And. Targets.
I know the movement wants an end to certain things. Where are the solutions? Seriously? Where are they being displayed? Who is issuing statements from Occupy?
Putting pressure on lawmakers in what way? They are not threatening their elections. They are not proposing laws or reforms or backing candidates. What are they doing?
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;34628859]Race has nothing to do with it, therefore it is not the issue. Personally, I believe race shouldn't even be recognized by the state.[/QUOTE]
we can say it's not the issue, but then we look at the effect of these concepts and they disproportionately affect non-white americans. you don't believe race should be recognized by the state, but i'm left wondering why when people's lives are different based on the concept of their race. black people get higher jail times, less credit, and more poverty purely based on nothing except the colour of their skin.
the tea party supports the concepts and ideals that allow for that to happen, ergo. racism. what's so different between that and social darwinism?
either you believe that these races are unequal because they are just inferior, or you believe that these races are unequal because of the economic situation that they have been placed in and the discrimination hurled towards them.
i think the strike is more then the US alone
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
