[QUOTE=SIRIUS;34628975]i think the strike is more then the US alone[/QUOTE]
It was started in Canada and was huge in Spain, but ultimately it seems to have only achieved some limited reforms with Spanish banks. Still, regional parts of the movement will of course focus on domestic issues, like Occupy LA may focus on racism in the LAPD
i'll partake in this strike
[QUOTE=thisispain;34628938]we can say it's not the issue, but then we look at the effect of these concepts and they disproportionately affect non-white americans. you don't believe race should be recognized by the state, but i'm left wondering why when people's lives are different based on the concept of their race. black people get higher jail times, less credit, and more poverty purely based on nothing except the colour of their skin.
the tea party supports the concepts and ideals that allow for that to happen, ergo. racism. what's so different between that and social darwinism?
either you believe that these races are unequal because they are just inferior, or you believe that these races are unequal because of the economic situation that they have been placed in and the discrimination hurled towards them.[/QUOTE]
If you give exclusive benefits to lower class minorities, then what about the lower class non-minorities? Wouldn't that be discriminating towards them because of their skin color?
Any time you give a particular group advantages solely because of their race, you create problems.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;34629135]If you give exclusive benefits to lower class minorities, then what about the lower class non-minorities? Wouldn't that be discriminating towards them because of their skin color?
Any time you give a particular group advantages solely because of their race, you create problems.[/QUOTE]
what problems are these?
and we can very easily give benefits to lower-class minorities, and lower-class non-minorities.
but minorities have different issues from non-minorities.
Tea Party is astro-turf bullshit funded by the Koch Brothers.
/argument
[QUOTE=thisispain;34629173]what problems are these?[/QUOTE]
In short, in creates jealousy, tension and it separates the races. Not only that, but you're favoring certain people based on their skin-color alone.
Let me explain using the example of employment.
There is a limited amount of jobs that can be held in an economy. In this example, there are two people who are of the same intelligence and credentials. They are exactly alike, except one is Caucasian and one is African American.
The government decides, because of past discrimination against African Americans, businesses have to hire a certain quota of African Americans. Now, normally this would be all good and well, but the key point in this problem is that there are a limited amount of jobs in the economy and only a certain amount of people who can fill them. Therefore, by doing this, the chances of the Caucasian man obtaining a job decrease, even though he is just as fit for the job as the other man. While you may think that Affirmative action is solely helping people, you have to realize at the same time it is also hurting people for something that is beyond their control.
[QUOTE=thisispain;34629173]and we can very easily give benefits to lower-class minorities, and lower-class non-minorities.
but minorities have different issues from non-minorities.[/QUOTE]
Would you please elaborate on these issues?
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;34628684]You mean like affirmative action?[/QUOTE]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/ihaee.png[/img]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34629647][img]http://i.imgur.com/ihaee.png[/img][/QUOTE]
This picture leaves out the part where all of the people in these historical panels are dead and the black guy asking for a hand up is swatting away another mans hand, because that man isn't black, and how the vast majority of the countries white population never held or benefited from slavery, nor did their ancestors hold slaves, and how
I'm just going to stop there because this comic is so horrible
Aren't these the same assholes who caused hundreds of people with nothing to do with the top 1% to lose two days of wages after they shut down the port in Oakland?
[QUOTE=Regulas021;34629696]This picture leaves out the part where all of the people in these historical panels are dead and the black guy asking for a hand up is swatting away another mans hand, because that man isn't black, and how the vast majority of the countries white population never held or benefited from slavery, nor did their ancestors hold slaves, and how
I'm just going to stop there because this comic is so horrible[/QUOTE]
Your post is so horrible.
I mean I see your point, but goddamn, could you come off as any more of a dick?
[QUOTE=Regulas021;34629696]This picture leaves out the part where all of the people in these historical panels are dead and the black guy asking for a hand up is swatting away another mans hand, because that man isn't black, and how the vast majority of the countries white population never held or benefited from slavery, nor did their ancestors hold slaves, and how
I'm just going to stop there because this comic is so horrible[/QUOTE]
You seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that because of slavery white people were able to solidify their power as the ruling class for several decades while black people were forced to work the fields
even today white people are still automatically born having an advantage over black people
Here because you guys all love Louis CK I'll let him say it
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY[/media]
[QUOTE=Hidole555;34629715]Your post is so horrible.
I mean I see your point, but goddamn, could you come off as any more of a dick?[/QUOTE]
It's such an oversimplification of history
I don't mean to come off as a dick, I'm just angry about it. Sorry.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34629726]You seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that because of slavery white people were able to solidify their power as the ruling class for several decades while black people were forced to work the fields
even today white people are still automatically born having an advantage over black people[/QUOTE]
I don't rule shit. I was born into a lower middle class family and I live paycheck to paycheck to this day. I'm not arguing racism doesn't exist, but I am arguing that your comic would like to portray an incredibly complex issue as though it was clear cut and simple, which it isn't.
[QUOTE=Regulas021;34629803]
I don't rule shit. I was born into a lower middle class family and I live paycheck to paycheck to this day. I'm not arguing racism doesn't exist, but I am arguing that your comic would like to portray an incredibly complex issue as though it was clear cut and simple, which it isn't.[/QUOTE]
You realize you're by far an outlier right? And you realize that even though you were born to a lower-middle class family, your career prospects are greater than a black person born into the same class?
I'm not asking you to feel ashamed because if I was saying that then I'd need to feel ashamed as well, which sucks
I'm saying [i]recognize it[/i]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34629823]You realize you're by far an outlier right? And you realize that even though you were born to a lower-middle class family, your career prospects are greater than a black person born into the same class?
I'm not asking you to feel ashamed because if I was saying that then I'd need to feel ashamed as well, which sucks
I'm saying [i]recognize it[/i][/QUOTE]
Yeah, racism is fucking horrible. It's a blemish in this country and all over the world.
I despise the notion that I see all over the internet that I should feel guilty or am over privileged simply because I am a white male.
Jokes on you Occupy, my Uni classes end towards the end of April!
[QUOTE=Regulas021;34629853]Yeah, racism is fucking horrible. It's a blemish in this country and all over the world.
I despise the notion that I see all over the internet that I should feel guilty or am over privileged simply because I am a white male.[/QUOTE]
Nobody is saying you should feel guilty, but you [b]are[/b] privileged. Recognizing that is important and useful. It doesn't make you a bad person whatsoever, but denying it definitely does.
[QUOTE=Regulas021;34629696]This picture leaves out the part where all of the people in these historical panels are dead and the black guy asking for a hand up is swatting away another mans hand, because that man isn't black, and how the vast majority of the countries white population never held or benefited from slavery, nor did their ancestors hold slaves, and how
I'm just going to stop there because this comic is so horrible[/QUOTE]
I agree with you that the comic is absolutely abysmal in its accuracy, but I don't agree with the way you present your argument.
The comic is wrong mainly because it treats white people and black people as a single entity, which is quite humorously ignorant. Not only that, but the removal of time barriers seems to indicate that modern day whites are just as bad as the old slave holders. The comic also seems to only portray the white character as "bad" while it treats the black character is "good", which of course is racist in itself. The artist also seems to forget that there are lower class Caucasians and upper class African Americans, of which he left out entirely.
[QUOTE=Regulas021;34629853]Yeah, racism is fucking horrible. It's a blemish in this country and all over the world.
I despise the notion that I see all over the internet that I should feel guilty or am over privileged simply because I am a white male.[/QUOTE]
He just said you shouldn't be ashamed, but at least recognize that a black person in your same class has on average a lower chance of doing better or moving up in economic class.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;34629901]I agree with you that the comic is absolutely abysmal in its accuracy, but I don't agree with the way you present your argument.
The comic is wrong mainly because it treats white people and black people as a single entity, which is quite humorously ignorant. Not only that, but the removal of time barriers seems to indicate that modern day whites are just as bad as the old slave holders. The comic also seems to only portray the white character as "bad" while it treats the black character is "good", which of course is racist in itself. The artist also seems to forget that there are lower class Caucasians and upper class African Americans, of which he left out entirely.[/QUOTE]
You're missing the point. The white person represents institutionalized racism throughout history because institutionalized racism favours and always has favoured white people, and the black person represents the disadvantages that the average black person faced or faces in the panel's respective time period
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34629726]
[b]even today white people are still automatically born having an advantage over black people[/b]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY[/media][/QUOTE]
Yes, because white people all get cheap schooling, and scholarships just for being white. Not to mention the major boosts on state tests and required applicants for being white.
Oh wait..
I'd like to see your explanation on how white people have an advantage being born over minorities. Which makes you a racist for just saying that.
[editline]10th February 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34629937]You're missing the point. The white person represents institutionalized racism [b]throughout history because institutionalized racism favours and always has favoured white people[/b], and the black person represents the disadvantages that the average black person faced or faces in the panel's respective time period[/QUOTE]
No shit, that's because the majority of the invaders/settlers in history were mainly white.
If blacks were the majority, or any group for a matter of fact (EX: Rwanda genocide), they would be favored.
[QUOTE=Combin0wnage;34629953]Yes, because white people all get cheap schooling, and scholarships just for being white. Not to mention the major boosts on state tests and required applicants for being white.
Oh wait..
I'd like to see your explanation on how white people have an advantage being born over minorities.[/QUOTE]
The scholarship argument is a [url=http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/09/06/merit_based_and_private_scholarships_disproportionately_favor_white_students]load of horse shit.[/url]
[release]At public colleges, white students made up 62.7 percent of the student population but were 73.1 percent of the recipients of merit-based grants and received 68.2 percent of the merit-based funds; at private nonprofit colleges, white students made up 66.8 percent of the collective student bodies but received nearly 80 percent of the merit-based grants. Over all, white students were nearly twice as likely as minority students with SAT scores of at least 1400 (on a 1600 scale) to receive institutional merit-based scholarships, Kantrowitz says.
[/release]
White people get more scholarships, even WITH minority-only scholarships in effect.
[release]"To put minority students on an equal footing would require increasing annual private scholarship awards for African-American students by $83 million and Latino students by $197 million," he writes. "These figures are based on equalizing the mean grant, the ratio of total funding to total student enrollment, so that all racial groups have the same mean grant."
[/release]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34630022]The scholarship argument is a [url=http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/09/06/merit_based_and_private_scholarships_disproportionately_favor_white_students]load of horse shit.[/url]
[release]At public colleges, white students made up 62.7 percent of the student population but were 73.1 percent of the recipients of merit-based grants and received 68.2 percent of the merit-based funds; at private nonprofit colleges, white students made up 66.8 percent of the collective student bodies but received nearly 80 percent of the merit-based grants. Over all, white students were nearly twice as likely as minority students with SAT scores of at least 1400 (on a 1600 scale) to receive institutional merit-based scholarships, Kantrowitz says.
[/release]
White people get more scholarships, even WITH minority-only scholarships in effect.
[release]"To put minority students on an equal footing would require increasing annual private scholarship awards for African-American students by $83 million and Latino students by $197 million," he writes. "These figures are based on equalizing the mean grant, the ratio of total funding to total student enrollment, so that all racial groups have the same mean grant."
[/release][/QUOTE]
I really don't care how you try and justify it, giving someone a scholarship because of the color of their skin is incredibly wrong.
People should be judged by their merits and actions, not their skin color.
I didn't know occupy was still going but I hate to see kids involved.
Missing out on education (no matter how useless) to sit and do nothing because your parents are making you, where's the logic? That's worse than forced-upon religion.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;34630081]I really don't care how you try and justify it, giving someone a scholarship because of the color of their skin is incredibly wrong.
[b]People should be judged by their merits and actions, not their skin color.[/b][/QUOTE]
I agree! Too bad they aren't. Being blind to race like you propose would undo any progress of equalizing the playing field that we've made in the last few decades. We need to be aware of racism and how it manifests itself if we ever hope to remedy it. Part of being aware of racism is being aware of race.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34630095]I agree! Too bad they aren't. Being blind to race like you propose would undo any progress of equalizing the playing field that we've made in the last few decades. We need to be aware of racism and how it manifests itself if we ever hope to remedy it. Part of being aware of racism is being aware of race.[/QUOTE]
You don't fix the future by repeating the past.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;34630121]You don't fix the future by repeating the past.[/QUOTE]
But that's not what we're doing.
Mind telling me how being blind to institutionalized racism will make it go away? What is your actual proposal here?
[url=http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-36-fall-2009/colorblindness-new-racism]Here's some good (and short) reading about why colourblindness is really just racism[/url]
Can we get back on track? The questions of affirmative action and racism are a whole different argument for a whole different time. This thread is about the May Day strike.
Honestly, I could not agree with Regulas201 any more on this subject. If the Occupy movement is ever going to accomplish anything it's gonna have to knuckle down and come up with specific problems and specific solutions. All they've done so far is introduce rhetoric and pick broad stances on broad issues, and while that's nice, they've yet to come up with any specific action they'd like taken. Occupy could be a movement with the influence of the progressives, or the civil rights movement, if they could just recognize that once you make your voice heard you need to use it to give actual demands.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;34630134]But that's not what we're doing.
Mind telling me how being blind to institutionalized racism will make it go away? What is your actual proposal here?[/QUOTE]
If you stop trying to separate races, then the whole concept of racism will eventually fade. Instead the government tries Affirmative action which, intentions aside, is just as messed as state sponsored racism back in the 1950s. Not only does it unfairly harm the people outside the minority range for something they cannot change, but it creates a feeling of "us verses them". By having the state promote certain people over others, you're only expanding the racial tensions and creating a bigger barrier between people.
To end my argument with a quote , "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".
Later, I'm going to sleep.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;34630258]If you stop trying to separate races, then the whole concept of racism will eventually fade. Instead the government tries Affirmative action which, intentions aside, [b]is just as messed as state sponsored racism back in the 1950s.[/b] Not only does it unfairly harm the people outside the minority range for something they cannot change, but it creates a feeling of "us verses them". By having the state promote certain people over others, you're only expanding the racial tensions and creating a bigger barrier between people.[/QUOTE]
This is a false equivalence. State sponsored racism in the 50s was the direct oppression of a minority group. It was nothing like affirmative action whatsoever.
Affirmative action does not attempt to promote certain people over others (evident by the fact that white people still have the advantage) and it only promotes racial tension amongst people too ignorant to understand what it truly is. These people will find any reason they possibly can to hate minorities because they're racists.
As for your first sentence, go back one of my posts and read the article I linked.
I've never seen Boba_Fett win an argument.
lol
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
