Sweden -- Yes, Sweden -- Leads Anti-Immigration Shift
155 replies, posted
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;46652252]Not necessarily commenting on "immigration limits," which is not necessarily unreasonable, but the scenario you concocted here is crap and is a major generalization
This is demonstrably untrue in almost every living example you can find in north america, especially in western areas where chinese, japanese and korean communities have done [I]exceedingly[/I] well in recent times economically and socially, and most second generation immigrants having the capacity to both speak english and their mandarin/cantonese/japenese/etc mother tongues bilingually.
Immigrants are easily capable of integrating into and helping form mixed communities, any examples you provide or purport to provide are likely stem (at least partly) from them meeting coldness, intolerance or outright hostility from natives and sticking to "their own" communities because everywhere else is conceitedly or openly intolerant of their cultural nuances.[/QUOTE]
well there is much wrong with your comment, 1. sweden is not North America which is build by immigrants and second doesnt have such high islamic-immigration as Europe and Europe has different values and norms as them because of the long history. 2. we are not talking here about Koreans and chinese but about Islamic-immigrants which have a totally different culture ,
[QUOTE=Jzzb;46651649]I'd rather be led by competent politicians[/QUOTE]
cognitive dissonance imminent
I'm surprised at how right-angled this thread is. But yeah it's pretty strange for us to have a new election already, but it's more Löfven's fault rather than SD. SD ended up reaping the benefits of it though. Most predictions says the right will probably benefit, mainly the moderates(M) and SD.
[editline]6th December 2014[/editline]
There's also going to be a lot of tactical voting(voting for the party you think has the biggest chance of winning against the party you don't like rather than the party you most prefer). I'll probably vote M rather Folkpartiet(FP).
I am afraid people will completly lose their minds in fear of SD gaining ground and will just vote for F! to protest
F! are worse than SD
Swedens problem isn't necessarily immigration, it's that they don't want to admit that there are problems around it.
The reason that the SD are gaining ground is entirely the fault of the other parties.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;46652351]I am afraid people will completly lose their minds in fear of SD gaining ground and will just vote for F! to protest
F! are worse than SD[/QUOTE]
I disagree with your first statement, but agree with the second. Anyways latest predictions I saw showed that F! would probably lose a bit
First of all, I think it's stupid to single out the Sweden democrats as the main culprit in toppling the center-left coalition. All other parties in the riksdag that voted against the budget are just as much to "blame" for it as them. Secondly, why are they considered as an immediate danger? Because they have shown that the other parties might have to compromise with the third largest party that got over 10% of our votes? Because that's just a little something called democracy.
While I personally don't share the Sweden democrats views I think it's about time for the other parties to start taking them seriously.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;46652252]Not necessarily commenting on "immigration limits," which is not necessarily unreasonable, but the scenario you concocted here is crap and is a major generalization
This is demonstrably untrue in almost every living example you can find in north america, especially in western areas where chinese, japanese and korean communities have done [I]exceedingly[/I] well in recent times economically and socially, and most second generation immigrants having the capacity to both speak english and their mandarin/cantonese/japenese/etc mother tongues bilingually.
Immigrants are easily capable of integrating into and helping form mixed communities, any examples you provide or purport to provide are likely stem (at least partly) from them meeting coldness, intolerance or outright hostility from natives and sticking to "their own" communities because everywhere else is conceitedly or openly intolerant of their cultural nuances.[/QUOTE]
You can't so plainly compare US/Canada society and its immigrant policies with that of European countries, especially non-English countries. (Not to mention that the US takes in significantly less immigrants than EU countries for sure...)
One of the big differences is most of our immigrants to Sweden are refugees, which in itself is not a bad thing. But the issue arises with a few other problems:
1) Housing bubble - in Sweden, it is very difficult to find a decent first-hand apartment. Building companies do not make new apartment buildings very often because there is like no profit margins in apartments. It's illegal to overprice apartments, so companies get very little return on making new housing buildings.
1b) Most immigrants get thrown into these same areas with cheap apartments filled mostly with other immigrants. This leads to even less chance they will become assimilated into Swedish society.
2) Jobs are not plentiful, and most require some Swedish speaking. There is truly no way to fix this other than to force the newcommers to learn Swedish...
3) There are no real requirement of assimilation. A single refugee gets at least 6000 SEK/month for free from the government, with no actual requirements about what they have to do. They earn a bit more by joining SFI (language classes), but not much more. Of course, this does not sound like a lot of money compared to an actual full-time job, but it is simple enough to survive easy on. Arbetsförmedlingen does not require refugees to be in any kind of assimilation programs.
These are just a few of the problems, but it causes the entire system to be flawed. Only those who WANT to become "a Swede" bother to become assimilated. They can survive without contributing back to the Swedish society. It is not right, and only makes life worse for both the natives and the newcomers. Lack of a proper assimilation policy combined with larger numbers than our social services are fit to handle just results in a big awful mess.
I was born in the US and I have lived in Sweden for the past year, and these are my observations about the system. It very flawed, and anyone who talks bad about it is silenced as a racist, like Impact1986 said. It is quite sad.
With all the professional victim Muslims I don't blame them, unfortunate for some Muslims you have the extremists that want Sharia law in all countries, or they will just call everyone a racist against Islam.(Didn't know people could be racist towards a religion.)
I wish the focus was more on immigration and less about race and the immigrants themselves, the latter which both side keeps bringing up for some reason.
The problem with SD and most far-right parties is that aside from their stance on immigration they're also terribly pro-life, pro-religion and anti-gay. I don't understand why those things always has to be coupled together.
I think like any Swede, we want people from other places to integrate or assimilate well into our culture. But in my eyes, I'm not sure if SD is the solution. But one good thing is that they've brought this issue out in the open.
[QUOTE=semper solus;46652031]No not really but its making tensions between the native population and the immigrant population. and because alot immigrants dont know the native language or simply dont want to that they all start living next to each other instead of togheter with the swedish. because most immigrants are arabic they understand each other and so start like arabic neighborhoods like Malmo. and because they dont communicate with the native's they only communicate with their own kind and then its like small arabia. then the immigrant youth (children of the immigrants) feel like they dont belong and are not welcomed in the country and quickly turn to criminality because of the culture differences, so the immigrants still act the same as if they would be in pakistan or morroco for example. and thats why in malmo some times blonde women get raped and homosexuels get threatend and yews discriminated. its not the fault of the immigrants but of the weak politics who dindt pay attention to this and if you dont solve a problem it only get bigger.[/QUOTE]
I don't see how you can say it's not the fault of the immigrants when you said yourself that they're the ones choosing to rape women and attack homosexuals. These people shouldn't be told by a politician to stop raping and being bigots, they should just be deported. if someone immigrates to a country and shows they have no respect for the law in that country and the people who inhabit that country, there is no legitimate reason to allow them to stay in said country. you're either allowing them to actively contribute to the detriment of your society or you're spending your country's money keeping them in prison locked away from everyone else.
in my mind this is very simple. if an immigrant is a respectful and peaceful member of society, let them be. if they're not, remove them from the country.
[QUOTE=Bruhmis;46653109]I don't see how you can say it's not the fault of the immigrants when you said yourself that they're the ones choosing to rape women and attack homosexuals. These people shouldn't be told by a politician to stop raping and being bigots, they should just be deported. if someone immigrates to a country and shows they have no respect for the law in that country and the people who inhabit that country, there is no legitimate reason to allow them to stay in said country. you're either allowing them to actively contribute to the detriment of your society or you're spending your country's money keeping them in prison locked away from everyone else.
in my mind this is very simple. if an immigrant is a respectful and peaceful member of society, let them be. if they're not, remove them from the country.[/QUOTE]
Okay, say it was as easy as deporting every immigrant that commits a crime. Do you think this solves the issue of segregation in society?
No it doesn't. It's clearly up to the politicians to do things. Sure you can fault the individual, but omitting the politicians from the blame is wrong I think.
I was considering to emigrate to Sweden soon-ish after I saw that I didn't have to pay for tuition since I have European citizenship. Welp.
wowowowowowow regulating ANY immigration makes you hitler. you dont want to be a nazi do you?
Immigration is necessary in a lot of places like Sweden, because of the aging workforce, and young people preferring to get educated and not working shitty jobs.
Automation isn't perfect yet, so someone has to do those shitty jobs, thus immigrants from countries worse than Sweden.
The problems start to arise when the immigrants fail to integrate into the society that they've just become a part of.
There's no easy solution to this, which is annoying.
[QUOTE=gastyne;46648743]You are a moron.
It doesn't matter one but what the immigrants believe rule the world, it's what they cost for Sweden to house.
Sweden takes in more then they can handle and anyone who want to put a limit on how many we can take in are labeled racist and fascist by the political left.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("flaming - report and ignore" - Orkel))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
I've seen people get away with much worse shit, but calling someone a moron gets the flameban?
I mean if you just append it because you were already banning for Report-and-Ignore then w/e I guess, but wow if not.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;46653226]I was considering to emigrate to Sweden soon-ish after I saw that I didn't have to pay for tuition since I have European citizenship. Welp.[/QUOTE]
I applied for studies starting in autumn 2015 aswell.
I feel bad for immigrants.
[QUOTE=ImperialGuard;46649592]I'd rather be led by retarded liberals than retarded conservatives.[/QUOTE]
I'd rather be led by people that actually want to properly run countries instead of caring only for their personal agendas.
Oh Hi SD.
It's so sad to see our wonderful country being ravaged by racism, ignorance and prejudice.
Same goes for this forum, the amount of winner-votes is sickening.
Fuck.
[QUOTE=Deng;46653844]Maybe there's a problem besides just racism and ignorance?
What's happening now reflects badly on the previous ruling parties to actually treat the immigration issue seriously. The fact that the only party willing to do so is also a big nutty racist one with XYZ problems is a serious worry.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it has to do with immigration, more like integration, but again I have a feeling that it could be fixed quite easily. I also believe it has to do with the fact that there's such a big gap between the people and the politicians. The people feel that they have no influence, and that the politicians have no true future vision for the country.
The only party with a future vision would be SD, unfortunately. People straight up ignore their book-burning parties and racist election campaign videos and see them as some sort of saviour from the brown peoples who are terkin der jawbs, raping, and refusing to integrate
~~sodumbe2dislikeracism~~
[QUOTE=VikCreamCake;46653818]It's so sad to see our wonderful country being ravaged by racism, ignorance and prejudice.
Same goes for this forum, the amount of winner-votes is sickening.
Fuck.[/QUOTE]
Maybe there's a problem besides just racism and ignorance?
What's happening now reflects badly on the previous ruling parties to actually treat the immigration issue seriously. The fact that the only party willing to do so is also a big nutty racist one with XYZ problems is a serious worry.
[QUOTE=ImperialGuard;46649592]I'd rather be led by retarded liberals than retarded conservatives.[/QUOTE]
Good thing we don't have "retarded conservatives" in sweden then
in the parliament that is
[QUOTE=Riutet;46651824]I'd rather live in the fantasy world you live in where competent politicians exist.[/QUOTE]
But they do? No need to be so pessimistic.
[QUOTE=semper solus;46652031]No not really but its making tensions between the native population and the immigrant population. and because alot immigrants dont know the native language or simply dont want to that they all start living next to each other instead of togheter with the swedish. because most immigrants are arabic they understand each other and so start like arabic neighborhoods like Malmo. and because they dont communicate with the native's they only communicate with their own kind and then its like small arabia. then the immigrant youth (children of the immigrants) feel like they dont belong and are not welcomed in the country and quickly turn to criminality because of the culture differences, so the immigrants still act the same as if they would be in pakistan or morroco for example. and thats why in malmo some times blonde women get raped and homosexuels get threatend and yews discriminated. its not the fault of the immigrants but of the weak politics who dindt pay attention to this and if you dont solve a problem it only get bigger.[/QUOTE]
Then they means politics are destroying Sweden it makese no sense to ban immigration
"It's not the immigrant's fault, it's the politicians fault. Which is why we should cut immigration and give in to batshit insane far-right parties because that will make everything better"
[editline]6th December 2014[/editline]
I think people should really know what's at stake here because most people are suporting this or screaming "we're not hitler!" Or some bullshit
FROM THE ARTICLE
[QUOTE]The far-right group won 13 percent of the vote in the last elections, its highest result, giving it a decisive role in the balance of power in parliament. The crisis that forced the government to call new elections was sparked by the Sweden Democrats' decision to oppose any budget that didn't take into account its demand that immigration be cut by 90 percent.[/QUOTE]
It's not 10% , 25% or 50%, IT'S A MASSIVE 90%
[editline]6th December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Impact1986;46652148]All that I read is that they want to limit immigration to their country, not outright banning it. For me this isn't an Anti-Immigration policy. And it is not a far right policy at all. Otherwise every country would be far right, including the USA, Germany, Switzerland etc etc etc...
It is all just bashing people who have different opnions than the far left by labeling them racist and Nazis, immediately bringing people who are undecided to not listen to them because they don't want to be labeled racist or Nazis themselves. It is a big mockery of democracy, where one side silents the other passively.[/QUOTE]
They're reducing the amount of immigrants coming into the country by a massive 90% if the social democrats get their way and they will due to bullshit attitudes people have
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46654758]Then they means politics are destroying Sweden it makese no sense to ban immigration
"It's not the immigrant's fault, it's the politicians fault. Which is why we should cut immigration and give in to batshit insane far-right parties because that will make everything better"
[editline]6th December 2014[/editline]
I think people should really know what's at stake here because most people are suporting this or screaming "we're not hitler!" Or some bullshit
FROM THE ARTICLE
It's not 10% , 25% or 50%, IT'S A MASSIVE 90%
[editline]6th December 2014[/editline]
They're reducing the amount of immigrants coming into the country by a massive 90% if the social democrats get their way and they will due to bullshit attitudes people have[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind that with current levels a 90% reduction would bring immigration levels down to approx. the same level as the other Nordic countries. Sweden is the extreme example here.
[QUOTE=Folstream;46655028]Keep in mind that with current levels a 90% reduction would bring immigration levels down to approx. the same level as the other Nordic countries. Sweden is the extreme example here.[/QUOTE]
Irrelevant. Sweden is considered one of the best countries to live in by many official top 10 or top 100 lists. Comparing it to a major country like UK would be the fairest you could get. If you cut down immigration by 90% then you would have 4 times as less immigrants per person compared to the UK.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46655255]Irrelevant. Sweden is considered one of the best countries to live in by many official top 10 or top 100 lists. Comparing it to a major country like UK would be the fairest you could get. If you cut down immigration by 90% then you would have 4 times as less immigrants per person compared to the UK.[/QUOTE]
Are you saying Sweden have to take in more immigrants then any other country by population just because Sweden is a nice place to live?
[editline]6th December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=gk99;46653417]I've seen people get away with much worse shit, but calling someone a moron gets the flameban?
I mean if you just append it because you were already banning for Report-and-Ignore then w/e I guess, but wow if not.[/QUOTE]
I didn't know I was suppose to report it, I thought we were discussing the topic at hand...
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46655255]Irrelevant. Sweden is considered one of the best countries to live in by many official top 10 or top 100 lists. Comparing it to a major country like UK would be the fairest you could get. If you cut down immigration by 90% then you would have 4 times as less immigrants per person compared to the UK.[/QUOTE]
How is a "top 10" list some kind of justification? That makes no sense. Just because a country has a 0.8+ HDI does not mean it's equipped to handle the amount of refugees it's currently taking in.
As you can read in my post on the former page, why should we continue to take in people when the country can't even handle all the people we already have?
Instead of telling Sweden to keep its current and unrealistic immigration policy, you should be telling the other high HDI countries (such as yours!) to step up their game.
[quote=http://www.thestar.com/news/atkinsonseries/2014/09/22/delay_delay_delay.html]Canada has resettled 200 Syrian refugees while Sweden, which has only a quarter of Canada's population, has taken in more than 30,000.[/quote]
Get real.
[QUOTE=HarryHy;46655575]How is a "top 10" list some kind of justification? That makes no sense. Just because a country has a 0.8+ HDI does not mean it's equipped to handle the amount of refugees it's currently taking in.
As you can read in my post on the former page, why should we continue to take in people when the country can't even handle all the people we already have?
Instead of telling Sweden to keep its current and unrealistic immigration policy, you should be telling the other high HDI countries (such as yours!) to step up their game.
Get real.[/QUOTE]
ok
if there is surely a thread on Canada's immigration i would gladly rant about how stephen harper is a dumbass but this is thread is about sweden's immigration
[editline]6th December 2014[/editline]
get real!!!
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