• Sweden -- Yes, Sweden -- Leads Anti-Immigration Shift
    155 replies, posted
One of the more sad parts of this that barely ever gets mentioned is also the fact that the same budged which goes to supporting refugees is also often made for supporting Swedish citizens if so needed. And since this budget already is so strangled, a big part of the social workers job includes trying to prioritize the budget as harshly as possible. And here is where the issue comes, they can't simply take in immigrants only to deny them support, so we are forced to give them the housing and funds needed to survive, regardless of how much or little they put an effort into assimilating into the country, learning Swedish, getting education and/or work. Which leads to the fact that the only people who can actually be denied support in most cases are the Swedish citizens, which is usually what happens too. Getting any form of support as a non immigrant is basically hell over here. A lot of people with mental or physical disabilities often end up having a constant battle just to get the support they need, or even to get it in the first place. Other young people who just happen to go through a rough patch in their life in regards to just finding work (which isn't so easy over here since we are in fact lacking work right now) or others who might've lost theirs, will not have an easy time getting the support they need to keep themselves on their feet. Most of the time if you're under 25, you simply get denied any support as a Swedish citizen based on the fact that "your parents have a good enough income to support you" and simply expect you to move back home despite the fact that your parents have no legal obligations whatsoever to support you after 18. And this is also something which frustrates a lot of parents over here, the fact that the tax you've payed for your entire life barely gives any lifeline to your children when they move on to establish their own life, due to the fact that the budget is being spent on supporting an immigration policy we simply cannot control.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46655727]ok if there is surely a thread on Canada's immigration i would gladly rant about how stephen harper is a dumbass but this is thread is about sweden's immigration [editline]6th December 2014[/editline] get real!!![/QUOTE] Amazing, you managed to dodge every single one of my points by focusing all your attention on me calling out Canada.
[QUOTE=Joanna;46655777]One of the more sad parts of this that barely ever gets mentioned is also the fact that the same budged which goes to supporting refugees is also often made for supporting Swedish citizens if so needed. And since this budget already is so strangled, a big part of the social workers job includes trying to prioritize the budget as harshly as possible. And here is where the issue comes, they can't simply take in immigrants only to deny them support, so we are forced to give them the housing and funds needed to survive, regardless of how much or little they put an effort into assimilating into the country, learning Swedish, getting education and/or work. Which leads to the fact that the only people who can actually be denied support in most cases are the Swedish citizens, which is usually what happens too. Getting any form of support as a non immigrant is basically hell over here. A lot of people with mental or physical disabilities often end up having a constant battle just to get the support they need, or even to get it in the first place. Other young people who just happen to go through a rough patch in their life in regards to just finding work (which isn't so easy over here since we are in fact lacking work right now) or others who might've lost theirs, will not have an easy time getting the support they need to keep themselves on their feet. Most of the time if you're under 25, you simply get denied any support as a Swedish citizen based on the fact that "your parents have a good enough income to support you" and simply expect you to move back home despite the fact that your parents have no legal obligations whatsoever to support you after 18. And this is also something which frustrates a lot of parents over here, the fact that the tax you've payed for your entire life barely gives any lifeline to your children when they move on to establish their own life, due to the fact that the budget is being spent on supporting an immigration policy we simply cannot control.[/QUOTE] Pfft what a racist you are, don't you understand you are in the top 10 places to live!? Immigrants are entitled to move there it's part of being top 10, it's written in the UN handbook.
[QUOTE=HarryHy;46655784]Amazing, you managed to dodge every single one of my points by focusing all your attention on me calling out Canada.[/QUOTE] Ok let me talk about the other points if you really want me to, I'm honored that you care about my opinion so much My point about the top 10 list is that one shouldn't be surprised that "oh my god why do we have so many people coming in here we're only the best country in the world" and you shouldn't have a fucking knee-jerk reaction like demanding that immigration be cut by a massive 90% Also your post on the other page lol [quote]1) Housing bubble - in Sweden, it is very difficult to find a decent first-hand apartment. Building companies do not make new apartment buildings very often because there is like no profit margins in apartments. It's illegal to overprice apartments, so companies get very little return on making new housing buildings. 1b) Most immigrants get thrown into these same areas with cheap apartments filled mostly with other immigrants. This leads to even less chance they will become assimilated into Swedish society. 2) Jobs are not plentiful, and most require some Swedish speaking. There is truly no way to fix this other than to force the newcommers to learn Swedish... 3) There are no real requirement of assimilation. A single refugee gets at least 6000 SEK/month for free from the government, with no actual requirements about what they have to do. They earn a bit more by joining SFI (language classes), but not much more. Of course, this does not sound like a lot of money compared to an actual full-time job, but it is simple enough to survive easy on. Arbetsförmedlingen does not require refugees to be in any kind of assimilation programs.[/quote] All these problems can be solved without cutting the amount of people who can enter the country. I absolutely think that this doesn't justify cutting down immigration so much
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46655857]Ok let me talk about the other points if you really want me to, I'm honored that you care about my opinion so much My point about the top 10 list is that one shouldn't be surprised that "oh my god why do we have so many people coming in here we're only the best country in the world" and you shouldn't have a fucking knee-jerk reaction like demanding that immigration be cut by a massive 90% Also your post on the other page lol All these problems can be solved without cutting the amount of people who can enter the country. I absolutely think that this doesn't justify cutting down immigration so much[/QUOTE] Why are you so vehemently pro open borders? Clearly on some level it isn't working/there is a problem.
I love how people are talking about the left in Europe being 'extreme'. Pretty much every left-wing party in Europe is either moderate or unbelievably niche, whereas some of the far-right, nigh-on Neo-Nazi parties are gaining popularity rapidly. Apparently mid-left is equal to far-right? Or maybe it's just because the whole of the world is constantly being told about how awful anything approaching communism is because Stalin.
[QUOTE=Aman;46655899]Why are you so vehemently pro open borders? Clearly on some level it isn't working/there is a problem.[/QUOTE] I'm not pro-open borders. I'm anti-farrightwing. Honestly, I'm okay with cutting down immigration to a certain extent, I'm not okay with far right wing policies demanded by groups that have had racist pasts. Like what's their fucking motive here? You can't justify this massive cut.
Oh well. If the NHS gets privatised, I'm leaving the country. Trouble is, it looks like there's not going to be anywhere to go. Maybe Canada.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46655857]Ok let me talk about the other points if you really want me to, I'm honored that you care about my opinion so much My point about the top 10 list is that one shouldn't be surprised that "oh my god why do we have so many people coming in here we're only the best country in the world" and you shouldn't have a fucking knee-jerk reaction like demanding that immigration be cut by a massive 90% Also your post on the other page lol All these problems can be solved without cutting the amount of people who can enter the country. I absolutely think that this doesn't justify cutting down immigration so much[/QUOTE] You know... Our current immigration policies does also contribute to a lot of abuse. As someone who works within health care, I get plenty of wives who've been married against their will with someone who has already migrated to Sweden, and I can tell you that they are not happy with their lives. While we do not allow several marriages here, the culture still stays. I've been visiting the homes of plenty mothers who happen to carry the same children of one guy, while he just ends up being married to one of them by the books. Which is also kinda funny because the ones that aren't married gets extra support for being single mothers. Anyhow, what I wanted to lift is the fact that not all of these people wants to be here, or at least not in the circumstances they were forced into. It was just the other day a work friend of mine told me about this 18 year old woman who had been sent over here to Sweden to marry this Norwegian guy who was in his 50s. The guy had been married several times before her and had something around 6 kids already, and was awaiting a new one with his current wife. The reason they live in Sweden was because she had been denied entry to Norway, so the guy had just simply moved here where she ended up being allowed to come. From the looks, the entire thing was shady, adding upon the fact that my work friend had to experience hours of crying from the wife in regards to how she never wanted to come here and just wanted to go home and were suicidal about having a child with this guy. It was quite the sad story, and most people who job within health care in general can relate to that heavy feel you have when going home from work. That obviously isn't exclusively related to immigration whatsoever, but it does fill up a part and these kind of things should not be allowed to happen.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46655949]I'm not pro-open borders. I'm anti-farrightwing. Honestly, I'm okay with cutting down immigration to a certain extent, I'm not okay with far right wing policies demanded by groups that have had racist pasts. Like what's their fucking motive here? You can't justify this massive cut.[/QUOTE] Honestly I don't know how accurate "far-right" is to describe SD. In many ways they are more of a center-party with right leaning views on harsher sentences for crimes, increased defence spending and restrictions on immigration. They have left leaning views on the walfare state with decreased senior citizen taxes and increased unemployment benefits just to give a few examples. This is a political compass that seems to place the Swedish parties fairly well from left to right and authoritarian to libertarian, SD is the yellow and blue flower: [img]http://scriptorium.se/josh/wordpress/wp-content/2014/05/Z5quLYd.png[/img]
That's still pretty far right
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46656315]That's still pretty far right[/QUOTE] They appear to be just slightly more authoritarian than F! and a few other parties from that graph.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46655857]All these problems can be solved without cutting the amount of people who can enter the country. I absolutely think that this doesn't justify cutting down immigration so much[/QUOTE] Please humor me then, what exactly would you do to fix even the tiny number of issues I posted, without taking money away from the already under-funded public services? How do we fix the housing bubble? Throw more government money at apartment companies to pay for them to build new apartment buildings? Or change the laws so everyone can be ripped off on their apartment prices? Or what? Then, how do we fix that they need Swedish to get a job, which will take them at least 2 years from a non-English background? There is no way to fix this, and those people will be a burden on the system for at least that much time. While that can't be avoided, you also have to consider how many of the new immigrants have a proper education from their homeland. Even if they begin to speak half-decent Swedish, are they going to get a job when they have no real documented education or career? Lastly on my limited list of issues that are facing Sweden, how do you force people to integrate? We can try to push everyone through it, but an unfortunate number feel they have no need to fully assimilate because there is no need to! There is no way to force people to integrate other than taking away their money, and that would force them to "earn" their money through illegitimate methods -- which would just open a whole new can of worms... All these above problems can be so easily remedied by just reducing the number of people we take in. [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46655949]Honestly, I'm okay with cutting down immigration to a certain extent, I'm not okay with far right wing policies demanded by groups that have had racist pasts. Like what's their fucking motive here? You can't justify this massive cut.[/QUOTE] To what extent do you consider immigration reduction to be okay? 20%? 30%? In the end, you are pulling these numbers out of nowhere. Do you even know what the per capita immigrant rate is in Sweden? We aren't some huge multicultural country like the USA; we are not equipped for this load, and there is not really any way to quickly change that! So how can you [I]not[/I] consider the cut to be justified? Reducing the number by such a percent is a very viable solution so that everyone -- both native born and foreign born citizens -- can achieve a better quality of life. Is it really so bad to have social services that don't function so abysmally due to being so overloaded? The entire system is overburdened, and you are completely ignorant to the issues of Sweden if you state otherwise. So please, please, please stop replying saying that Sweden is going in such an awful direction with this decision, unless you have an actual reason other than it being "racist". Out of the people who agree with the cut, most don't think it because they are disgusted with seeing BROWN PEOPLE everywhere. We want this because it is the only viable solution for our survival. The current system is broken and unsustainable, and none of the parties other than SD wants to admit that. In the end, it is nothing with "racism" (which is being turned into such an unfortunate and sad buzzword). It is simple mathematics. [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46656315]That's still pretty far right and still pretty damn worrying if they're a bit more left then they should because of welfare.[/QUOTE] [url]http://sverigedemokraterna.se/var-politik/var-politik-a-till-o/[/url] (Google translate should work for you, though some things could be confusing with mistranslations) SD are really quite more center than the media shows them. Also, you should know that the government we had for the past 8 years (Moderaterna) is the farthest right.
[QUOTE=Explosions;46648589]This surge in far-right European parties is frightening to say the least.[/QUOTE] The results are not that surprising all things considered. A lot of it has to do with how many immigrants are often perceived, particularly those coming from the middle east. The rise of ISIS didn't help this sentiment one bit. To be honest, what we consider far-right parties is often not that dissimilar to US republicans. While there are even more extreme views in areas the two share a lot of similarities. [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46655255]Irrelevant. Sweden is considered one of the best countries to live in by many official top 10 or top 100 lists. Comparing it to a major country like UK would be the fairest you could get. If you cut down immigration by 90% then you would have 4 times as less immigrants per person compared to the UK.[/QUOTE] Which you can blame on UK commonwealth history more than anything else really. And the fact english is a second language for most people.
When people say "OMG SD 90% UNREASONABLE" you have to keep in mind that demanding something "unreasonably" large right off the bat is actually a negotiation method. The others might say like "Okay, 30% and we're deal" and then SD goes like "Well, how about 60", "40", "50", "45" And they meet halfway through or somewhere around there.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46655949]I'm not pro-open borders. I'm [B]anti-farrightwing.[/B] Honestly, I'm okay with cutting down immigration to a certain extent, I'm not okay with far right wing policies demanded by groups that have had racist pasts. Like what's their fucking motive here? You can't justify this massive cut.[/QUOTE] Then you really shouldn't be talking about Sweden because our furthest right is America's furthest left Please.
[QUOTE=HarryHy;46656383]Please humor me then, what exactly would you do to fix even the tiny number of issues I posted, without taking money away from the already under-funded public services? How do we fix the housing bubble? Throw more government money at apartment companies to pay for them to build new apartment buildings? Or change the laws so everyone can be ripped off on their apartment prices? Or what? Then, how do we fix that they need Swedish to get a job, which will take them at least 2 years from a non-English background? There is no way to fix this, and those people will be a burden on the system for at least that much time. While that can't be avoided, you also have to consider how many of the new immigrants have a proper education from their homeland. Even if they begin to speak half-decent Swedish, are they going to get a job when they have no real documented education or career? Lastly on my limited list of issues that are facing Sweden, how do you force people to integrate? We can try to push everyone through it, but an unfortunate number feel they have no need to fully assimilate because there is no need to! There is no way to force people to integrate other than taking away their money, and that would force them to "earn" their money through illegitimate methods -- which would just open a whole new can of worms... All these above problems can be so easily remedied by just reducing the number of people we take in. To what extent do you consider immigration reduction to be okay? 20%? 30%? In the end, you are pulling these numbers out of nowhere. Do you even know what the per capita immigrant rate is in Sweden? We aren't some huge multicultural country like the USA; we are not equipped for this load, and there is not really any way to quickly change that! So how can you [I]not[/I] consider the cut to be justified? Reducing the number by such a percent is a very viable solution so that everyone -- both native born and foreign born citizens -- can achieve a better quality of life. Is it really so bad to have social services that don't function so abysmally due to being so overloaded? The entire system is overburdened, and you are completely ignorant to the issues of Sweden if you state otherwise. So please, please, please stop replying saying that Sweden is going in such an awful direction with this decision, unless you have an actual reason other than it being "racist". Out of the people who agree with the cut, most don't think it because they are disgusted with seeing BROWN PEOPLE everywhere. We want this because it is the only viable solution for our survival. The current system is broken and unsustainable, and none of the parties other than SD wants to admit that. In the end, it is nothing with "racism" (which is being turned into such an unfortunate and sad buzzword). It is simple mathematics. [url]http://sverigedemokraterna.se/var-politik/var-politik-a-till-o/[/url] (Google translate should work for you, though some things could be confusing with mistranslations) SD are really quite more center than the media shows them. Also, you should know that the government we had for the past 8 years (Moderaterna) is the farthest right.[/QUOTE] why are you saying "we" you said you've been there for like a year and you keep saying "we" lol I'm not a politician so I can't say what's best for a country. Your expertise is definitely equal to mine since we're both obviously armchair politicians so obviously I'm going to humour you because you're going to scream THAT WON'T WORK because I don't have any experience Like what's the issue again? Immigrants not speaking a language they're supposed to be speaking? Immigrants not working because they can live off welfare? Change the system so you receive welfare if you're working or are looking for a job unless people cannot work (disability). Create free government courses that provide free language lessons for whatever primary language you use in Sweden, if this doesn't exist. Personally I just don't think it's right when you decide to deny such a massive percentage of immigrants so suddenly. Call me a social justice warrior, but I don't like this 90% plan because that doesn't benefit everyone, that only benefits the people who are already in the country which I find to be bullshit given the current situation in the middle east. [editline]6th December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=jiggu;46656669]Then you really shouldn't be talking about Sweden because our furthest right is America's furthest left Please.[/QUOTE] This is a far right wing policy so I'm against it. Like I said before, if there was a thread about some bullshit far right wing policy that happened elsewhere I would be talking about it, and we're talking about Sweden so I don't even know how that applies
About time the beta fucks in Sweden stood up to the Zionists trying to destroy Europe's cultural heritage.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46656718]why are you saying "we" you said you've been there for like a year and you keep saying "we" lol I'm not a politician so I can't say what's best for a country. Your expertise is definitely equal to mine since we're both obviously armchair politicians so obviously I'm going to humour you because you're going to scream THAT WON'T WORK because I don't have any experience Like what's the issue again? Immigrants not speaking a language they're supposed to be speaking? Immigrants not working because they can live off welfare? Change the system so you receive welfare if you're working or are looking for a job unless people cannot work (disability). Create free government courses that provide free language lessons for whatever primary language you use in Sweden, if this doesn't exist. Personally I just don't think it's right when you decide to deny such a massive percentage of immigrants so suddenly. Call me a social justice warrior, but I don't like this 90% plan because that doesn't benefit everyone, that only benefits the people who are already in the country which I find to be bullshit given the current situation in the middle east. [editline]6th December 2014[/editline] This is a far right wing policy so I'm against it. Like I said before, if there was a thread about some bullshit far right wing policy that happened elsewhere I would be talking about it, and we're talking about Sweden so I don't even know how that applies[/QUOTE] You seriously don't even know what the official language of Sweden is........?
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46656718]why are you saying "we" you said you've been there for like a year and you keep saying "we" lol I'm not a politician so I can't say what's best for a country. Your expertise is definitely equal to mine since we're both obviously armchair politicians so obviously I'm going to humour you because you're going to scream THAT WON'T WORK because I don't have any experience Like what's the issue again? Immigrants not speaking a language they're supposed to be speaking? Immigrants not working because they can live off welfare? Change the system so you receive welfare if you're working or are looking for a job unless people cannot work (disability). Create free government courses that provide free language lessons for whatever primary language you use in Sweden, if this doesn't exist. Personally I just don't think it's right when you decide to deny such a massive percentage of immigrants so suddenly. Call me a social justice warrior, but I don't like this 90% plan because that doesn't benefit everyone, that only benefits the people who are already in the country which I find to be bullshit given the current situation in the middle east. [editline]6th December 2014[/editline] This is a far right wing policy so I'm against it. Like I said before, if there was a thread about some bullshit far right wing policy that happened elsewhere I would be talking about it, and we're talking about Sweden so I don't even know how that applies[/QUOTE] Maybe you should fuck off and donate to Isreal some more you nigger lover Amerifat [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("gimmick" - Orkel))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Firewarrior;46656760]You seriously don't even know what the official language of Sweden is........?[/QUOTE] Is it Swiss. I wanted to say swedish but I thought that's like saying the official language of Canada is Canadian so I decided to be honest and say I don't know.
europe in: the rise of the reactionary [editline]7th December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46656816]Is it Swiss. I wanted to say swedish but I thought that's like saying the official language of Canada is Canadian so I decided to be honest and say I don't know.[/QUOTE] swiss?
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46656816]Is it Swiss. I wanted to say swedish but I thought that's like saying the official language of Canada is Canadian so I decided to be honest and say I don't know.[/QUOTE] At least educate yourself on the topics you talk about. You should know by now that it's Arabic! I hope you won't forget it again
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46656816]Is it Swiss. I wanted to say swedish but I thought that's like saying the official language of Canada is Canadian so I decided to be honest and say I don't know.[/QUOTE] are you a real person?
[QUOTE=Zovox;46656918]are you a real person?[/QUOTE] I'm joking about the first part fyi
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46656952]I'm joking about the first part fyi[/QUOTE] [img]http://puu.sh/dk6nm/78e7b4a07a.PNG[/img] Come on dude you have access to the internet Admittedly there is romansch but that's spoken by a minority
gosh you guys need to lighten up [editline]40[/editline] but really I don't care what language you speak, far left wing or far right wing is always bad
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46656816]I wanted to say swedish but I thought that's like saying the official language of Canada is Canadian so I decided to be honest and say I don't know.[/QUOTE] this is just sad
[QUOTE=Joanna;46655777]One of the more sad parts of this that barely ever gets mentioned is also the fact that the same budged which goes to supporting refugees is also often made for supporting Swedish citizens if so needed. And since this budget already is so strangled, a big part of the social workers job includes trying to prioritize the budget as harshly as possible. And here is where the issue comes, they can't simply take in immigrants only to deny them support, so we are forced to give them the housing and funds needed to survive, regardless of how much or little they put an effort into assimilating into the country, learning Swedish, getting education and/or work. Which leads to the fact that the only people who can actually be denied support in most cases are the Swedish citizens, which is usually what happens too. Getting any form of support as a non immigrant is basically hell over here. A lot of people with mental or physical disabilities often end up having a constant battle just to get the support they need, or even to get it in the first place. Other young people who just happen to go through a rough patch in their life in regards to just finding work (which isn't so easy over here since we are in fact lacking work right now) or others who might've lost theirs, will not have an easy time getting the support they need to keep themselves on their feet. Most of the time if you're under 25, you simply get denied any support as a Swedish citizen based on the fact that "your parents have a good enough income to support you" and simply expect you to move back home despite the fact that your parents have no legal obligations whatsoever to support you after 18. And this is also something which frustrates a lot of parents over here, the fact that the tax you've payed for your entire life barely gives any lifeline to your children when they move on to establish their own life, due to the fact that the budget is being spent on supporting an immigration policy we simply cannot control.[/QUOTE] This pretty much. I've been unemployed for 1 and a half year now. I'm not gonna pretend I'm a good job hunter(I'm really not) but I really did try to get a job and I still really want to get one. I went to the unemployment office last year and they didn't really help me in any way whatsoever. They suggested some jobs which I had for the most part already written to, but that was about it. The only way to get any money from being unemployed(for me atleast) was to sign up for a programm where you basically went to the unemployment office and searched for jobs from 9 in the morning to 4 in the afternoon every weekday. You also had to search all over Sweden. If you refused a job because the job was in say Stockholm for example and you lived in Halmstad, they would most likely refuse to pay you. The same could happen if you also didn't search enough jobs. After about a little more than half a year I gave up and just started studying some basic math to get ready for university. It still feels really bad though, since I have to leech of my mother at the age of 20.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46655949]I'm not pro-open borders. I'm anti-farrightwing. Honestly, I'm okay with cutting down immigration to a certain extent, I'm not okay with far right wing policies demanded by groups that have had racist pasts. Like what's their fucking motive here? You can't justify this massive cut.[/QUOTE] Having a reasonable immigration policy is not extreme right wing.
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