• Texas Governor Signs Campus Carry Law, Goes In Effect August 1st
    106 replies, posted
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;49823274]Yes, yes they do. Most of the robberies happen at gun point.[/QUOTE] Please tell me how you are going to defend yourself with a gun if you're being robbed at gunpoint
[QUOTE=pentium;49823068]The fact someone wants to shoot a place up is more an indication of other more serious failings such as deteriorated mental health or the extreme pressure brought on by a failing education or high-pressure environment. Giving them a gun, concealed or not, is such a dangerous band-aid fix.[/QUOTE] lol, so you're blaming the school for driving someone to commit a shooting? Seriously, where the fuck is personal accountability. That [B][I]is[/I][/B] a thing you know... Additionally, if I were going to shoot up a campus or whatever, do you think a fucking no-guns allowed sign would stop me?
[QUOTE=Duck M.;49823278]This is such a stupid argument, it is FAR easier to kill someone with a gun than by killing them with a knife, by beating them to death with your bare hands, or by a dinner fork (seriously?)[/QUOTE] We're not talking about deadly, we're talking about violence. While a firearm may lead to death easier than a knife, you're more likely to get stabbed than shot simply because knives are cheap and plentiful. It's a numbers game. Is the likelihood of you getting shot going to rise with the amount of guns in a specific location? Yes, statistically speaking it would. Is it likely that you're more likely to die in a car accident if you drive a car? Yes, statistically speaking it would. But making that argument under the assumption that your University is all of a sudden become the wild west is asinine. Like I've said before, If people wanted to bring guns onto campus before the law went into effect there was nothing there to stop them. The law against it was entirely reactive, which would have done nothing to stop any sort of shootings or violence what so ever. A vast majority of people that take their time to go out of their way and get a carry permit are the folks that are trying to follow the law. Those are not the people I'm worried about.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;49823278]This is such a stupid argument, it is FAR easier to kill someone with a gun than by killing them with a knife, by beating them to death with your bare hands, or by a dinner fork (seriously?)[/QUOTE] Oh boy you are wrong on that one. Depends how close you are. You can damn sure fuck up some people with a decent knife in close quarters.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;49823306]We're not talking about deadly, we're talking about violence. While a firearm may lead to death easier than a knife, you're more likely to get stabbed than shot simply because knives are cheap and plentiful. It's a numbers game. Is the likelihood of you getting shot going to rise with the amount of guns in a specific location? Yes, statistically speaking it would. Is it likely that you're more likely to die in a car accident if you drive a car? Yes, statistically speaking it would. But making that argument under the assumption that your University is all of a sudden become the wild west is asinine. Like I've said before, If people wanted to bring guns onto campus before the law went into effect there was nothing there to stop them. The law against it was entirely reactive, which would have done nothing to stop any sort of shootings or violence what so ever. A vast majority of people that take their time to go out of their way and get a carry permit are the folks that are trying to follow the law. Those are not the people I'm worried about.[/QUOTE] ok then let's put it this way: legally admitting firearms on a university campus is like admitting knives into a courthouse
[QUOTE=Duck M.;49823284]Please tell me how you are going to defend yourself with a gun if you're being robbed at gunpoint[/QUOTE] Same way I have, by finding a moment of opportunity. Maybe YOU don't think it's possible, and maybe YOU can't see yourself handling that situation. Considering that I've spent a pretty good chunk of my life training to deal with folks intentionally trying to kill me overseas I have confidence in my abilities, and on more than one occasion I've had to put them to the test.
[QUOTE=Kommodore;49823318]ok then let's put it this way: legally admitting firearms on a university campus is like admitting knives into a courthouse[/QUOTE] Except that before and after there is nothing stopping an individual carrying a firearm on site. If you get a permit, you are aware of the capabilities of your weapon. You know when to use it, and how to use it. These are safe individuals. If they were to decide they wanted to shoot up the place it would be no different than before the law is enacted. As nothing will stop somebody with the intent to kill from trying to do so.
CHLs can bring firearms into the Texas Capitol building for quite some time now. [url]http://www.dallasnews.com/news/state/headlines/20100719-concealed-carry-gun-permits-let-holders-bypass-texas-capitol_s-metal-detectors.ece[/url] They even added "Capitol Access Pass" to bypass metal detectors. [url]https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/cap/index.htm[/url] You think they stopped talking about certain subjects because of it at the state capitol? The state legislators knew what kind of effects CHL on campus would likely have, by personal experience.
[QUOTE=Kommodore;49823318]ok then let's put it this way: legally admitting firearms on a university campus is like admitting knives into a courthouse[/QUOTE] Lot more motive to stab someone in a courthouse don't you think?
[QUOTE=Kommodore;49823318]ok then let's put it this way: legally admitting firearms on a university campus is like admitting knives into a courthouse[/QUOTE] You're referring to two contextually different situations. First, across most states court houses do let you carry weapons if you notify the sergeant at arms that you intend on doing so prior to going into court. Second, a courthouse is expected to have convicted and charged defendants who may or may not have a violent history. It is a situation where there is a known factor, where as in a University there is not. If the guy sitting in the defendants seat was convicted of murder you've got a pretty good idea that he's known to be violent. If you see some guy hanging out at the bus stop you have no idea who he is or what he's there for.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;49823284]Please tell me how you are going to defend yourself with a gun if you're being robbed at gunpoint[/QUOTE] Don't know about you but i'd rather have a gun than not have a gun in a situation where someone might end up shooting at me. Robberies are volatile situations that can go sour quickly and unexpectedly with no fault of the victim (since most robbers aren't rational, level-headed people).
[QUOTE=OvB;49823328]Lot more motive to stab someone in a courthouse don't you think?[/QUOTE] probably not a whole lot to get incensed about in marine biology
I just don't think it's a big deal. All the colleges in Texas got to vote on whether or not their schools should support the bill. I know my campus was for it. If it's what the students want then I don't see why we should restrict it. I don't think it's worth getting worked up over or going to cause an increase in crime. A CCW holder will be found out quickly if they commit a crime with their weapon.
Where I'm from there were multi-year battles against arming campus police, let alone students
[QUOTE=OvB;49823375]I just don't think it's a big deal.[/QUOTE] Neither do I. At least as someone from these Universities I hope not :wavey:
[QUOTE=Kommodore;49823385]Where I'm from there were multi-year battles against arming campus police, let alone students[/QUOTE] I feel like police should always be armed. What's the point otherwise? Be an intermediary to call the real police when you need them? To be fair, I don't know if our campus police is armed but I sure hope they at least got something locked up for if they need it.
[QUOTE=pentium;49823024]A dean has already quit as a result. [url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35673426[/url][/QUOTE] Funny considering most mass shootings are in gun free zones. [editline]27th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=pentium;49823045]Baseless? It's dumb. Why the fuck do you need a gun in any educational institution unless Administration is fucking up that badly?[/QUOTE] How does the administration stop some crazy fuck from going into a campus and shooting it up until police arrive (usually late) and a lot of people end up dead&injured? Maybe, oh I don't know, if campus police could carry pistols and have proper training.
[QUOTE=Kommodore;49823318]ok then let's put it this way: legally admitting firearms on a university campus is like admitting knives into a courthouse[/QUOTE] I brought a folding knife into the california state capitol building at like 13 years old. Security didn"t seem to care then, why would they care now?
Florida is considering doing the same thing. Everyone I've talked to at UCF's Orlando campus is completely against it, not just students, but professors, too. Our campus is extremely well-policed; we have our own department on campus that publishes its own crime statistics. Last year we only had a total of 20 violent on-campus crimes out of 60,000 enrolled students, and nobody died for any reason. The only support I see for the new law is from gun enthusiasts. We're not afraid that the change in law will result in a mass shooting, because we know that a sufficiently-motivated lunatic would simply violate the gun ban anyway under the current law. What we're more afraid of is that two students will get in a violent argument over, say, a car accident in one of our parking garages, and one student will decide to "defend himself" rather than backing off. Florida law has a very wide interpretation of self defense, so it doesn't require you to seek retreat from a dangerous situation before using a firearm to defend yourself. If someone were to be shot and killed on the UCF campus, regardless of the reasons behind it, our already stretched budget would have to somehow cover new security measures to satisfy the thousands of students who no longer feel safe in the parking garages. New security cameras, permanent police kiosks, information campaigns, on and on. That's why no one understands why the status quo needs to be changed. Things are fine the way they are, but they could be a whole less fine if even one "stand your ground" enthusiast is empowered to take action into his own hands.
what about if there is a school shooting? how will more bullets being fired help anyone?
[QUOTE=Xain777;49823963]what about if there is a school shooting? how will more bullets being fired help anyone?[/QUOTE] And how do you think the police solve that issue? I'll tell you the answer. Its by firing more bullets in the direction of the attacker. That is the same thing a CHL holder is going to do.
[QUOTE=Kigen;49823137]Honestly, SJWs are way more of a threat to expression on campus than CHL holders. There have been so many Title IX cases against professors and other students for having a different opinion than the SJW. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Kipnis#Controversy[/url] Edit: Hard time finding unbiased reports due to the secretive nature of Title IX cases. [url]http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2016/01/how-title-nine-became-a-policy-bully/[/url][/QUOTE] This is not a problem because there are other problems? Your post is not at all relevant to the topic, there's like a thread every other day if you want to get on that hobby horse. And hell, I'd rather feel threatened with verbal abuse than be recommended to not talk about certain topics because my students might get angry and also have guns.
Facts are, we own 43% of the world's privately owned firearms. Just us. We're not getting rid of guns, and even perfectly sane people go crazy (Take that guy recently who randomly shot people. Never did anything wrong until then) Banning them from a place doesn't stop a dickhead who wants to kill people from walking into that place and doing so with his. What's going to stop a gunman going on a shooting spree? Putting your hands up and saying please? No, it's going to be someone else who can fight back. Being able to carry a weapon of your own means you have something for those seconds when the police are minutes away. Remember, Conceal carrying is not a pass to actively seek out a shooter and put him down, it's for self defense. They are two very separate distinctions, and I would rather be on lockdown in a room with a guy who has the means to fight back if a shooter muscled his way into it, rather than be in a nice and neat executioner's line on the back wall waiting to be killed without being able to do anything about it. Allowing people to carry in the school isn't the same as giving a shooter a free pass to bring his gun in. They do that anyway. [editline]27th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Xain777;49823963]what about if there is a school shooting? how will more bullets being fired help anyone?[/QUOTE] A shooter with free reign against unarmed targets is the worst outcome.
If arming college students is the solution now, why not arm high school students too? They're in similar environments and mass shootings are likely to happen in both.
[QUOTE=GarbageCan;49823069]Professors do not need to feel intimidated or threatened by their own students. You may think nothing may change, but what about how professors teach their classes? How comfortable they feel in their class rooms where they can't tell students to not bring a gun in?[/QUOTE] if a student wanted to shoot them they wouldnt be able to tell them not to in the first place [editline]27th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;49824733]If arming college students is the solution now, why not arm high school students too? They're in similar environments and mass shootings are likely to happen in both.[/QUOTE] only a small fraction of high schoolers are above the age of 18 for anything more than the last handful of months of their time in school, and theres a huge difference between college and high school in terms of the psychological state of the students and atmosphere of the school. did you even think about this?
I hope we can get something like this in Florida. I can legally keep my gun in my car on the campus with my CCL, but I can't actually carry it on my person while on the campus. I don't actually carry at the moment, but it would be good if I ever decided to starting doing so.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;49823083]I'm not really on either side of this whole thing but this is a dumb argument to make Anyone who says that America has a gun problem wouldnt want campus or open carry[/QUOTE] Because that way when someone walks onto a campus and murders a few dozen people, they can point at the bodies and say "See? I told you!"
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49824733]If arming college students is the solution now, why not arm high school students too? They're in similar environments and mass shootings are likely to happen in both.[/QUOTE] You have to be 21 to get a CCW permit. I don't know any 21 year old high school students and if they are they probably don't meet the other legal requirements. Nobody is being "armed." They're not handing us six-shooters at the door.
[QUOTE=Bazsil;49824800]only a small fraction of high schoolers are above the age of 18 for anything more than the last handful of months of their time in school, and theres a huge difference between college and high school in terms of the psychological state of the students and atmosphere of the school. did you even think about this?[/QUOTE] Well yeah I thought about it. See if they say that arming students is the way to help prevent mass shooting then it would make logical sense to arm as many students as possible to prevent mass shootings. Gun activists say that shooters always target the gun-free zones. If all of the colleges were armed and deadly, you'd be getting rid of all those targets and it would be more likely that mass shooters would attack schools. Therefore if you armed the students in high schools they would be able to protect themselves. In fact it's probably the way things are going to end up eventually since they're starting to allow teachers to carry guns in schools now, and soon enough you're only going to need even more guns to help fix the problem, so you will obviously need more guns and more places where you are allowed to use guns if you want to stop gun violence and the fear of mass shootings from taking over.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49825222]Well yeah I thought about it. See if they say that arming students is the way to help prevent mass shooting then it would make logical sense to arm as many students as possible to prevent mass shootings. Gun activists say that shooters always target the gun-free zones. If all of the colleges were armed and deadly, you'd be getting rid of all those targets and it would be more likely that mass shooters would attack schools. Therefore if you armed the students in high schools they would be able to protect themselves. In fact it's probably the way things are going to end up eventually since they're starting to allow teachers to carry guns in schools now, and soon enough you're only going to need even more guns to help fix the problem, so you will obviously need more guns and more places where you are allowed to use guns if you want to stop gun violence and the fear of mass shootings from taking over.[/QUOTE] There are people who advocate allowing high school teachers to be armed.
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