[QUOTE=Valdor;31812808]Physical punishment directed towards children is extremely common around the world.[/QUOTE]
Know what else is common
Angry kids that rebel against every form of authority (even the just ones) because their foremost authority figures failed them
this is going to go on the back cover of the child psychology book I'll never write
If you think [b]reasoning and understanding[/b] with someone who is going to fight to the death with what they want, is the only way to raise your kid you don't know shit about parenting and will grow up to have kids like this;
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-ld57eaS-s[/media]
The cold shower is nothing you spoiled kids, i'm perfectly fine and I had studded sticks whipped at me, even a training kendo sword. Do you see me bitching about this story?
every other post contained a strawman what the hell are you guys doing
[QUOTE=Toothpick;31815146]for all you people who think [b]reasoning and understanding[/b] is the only way to raise your kid or else you're a bad parents don't know shit about parenting and will grow up to have kids like this;
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-ld57eaS-s[/media][/QUOTE]
That's funny because I didn't turn out like that.
That's also a very dumb post, I could do the same shit, example:
[QUOTE]For all you people who think [b]violence and harsh punishment[/b] is the only way to raise your kid or else you're a bad parents don't know shit about parenting and will grow up to have kids like this:
*video of kids committing violent crimes* [/QUOTE]
Try again.
[QUOTE=Toothpick;31815146]
The cold shower is nothing you spoiled kids, i'm perfectly fine and I had studded sticks whipped at me, even a training kendo sword. Do you see me bitching about this story?[/QUOTE]
you're doing it right now
i think what I drew from this is
hot sauce treatment bad, cold shower treatment only in the most dire of situations
i cant believe FP is justifying casual child abuse
this was posted on /v/ a year ago and they were calling for the mother to be beaten for christ sake
Okay guys, Two words, SENSITIVE SKIN, I have it, makes cold water shower really really bad, even going out in Winter bare footed, the kid might have Sensitive skin. And the hot Sauce could of been something completely worse, like mixing two different types together, and by the way she acts, she could of done it. Those are reasons why IT could of made it worse.
Wow... just... wow...
I never cry, but watching that vid had me in the verge of tears.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyAlt;31812096]If you need to resort to physical violence to discipline your child, there's either something wrong with him/her mentally or you're just a terrible parent.[/QUOTE]
This, people, [B]THIS.[/B]
[QUOTE=Toothpick;31815146]The cold shower is nothing you spoiled kids, i'm perfectly fine and I had studded sticks whipped at me, even a training kendo sword. Do you see me bitching about this story?[/QUOTE]
Judging from your posts, I assess two things.
One, you don't sound "perfectly fine" if you're seriously comparing getting whipped by studded sticks and training swords to hot sauce down the mouth and cold showers with the message of "hey it's not as bad". Two, if you were hit with weapons, that is the exact definition of child abuse, and you should've spoken to authorities about it.
[editline]18th August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=thispieiscold;31815305]i cant believe FP is justifying casual child abuse
this was posted on /v/ a year ago and they were calling for the mother to be beaten for christ sake[/QUOTE]
It's very sad.
[QUOTE=thispieiscold;31815305]i cant believe FP is justifying casual child abuse
this was posted on /v/ a year ago and they were calling for the mother to be beaten for christ sake[/QUOTE]
i think the people who were subject capital punishment are more open to capital punishment, and vice versa
i got spankings on the tush all the time, so I don't really see the cold shower as all that bad
i think the why some people don't see this as big of a deal because child abuse is sorta ambiguous in the sense that where do we say "capital punishment" and where do we say "child abuse"
ironically, I know people who would pay her to do that to them :v:
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;31814941]Its interesting, and it is getting logged as "creative parenting". I will attempt to avoid it and use my experiences to not have to get there, but if I end up in the same situation my parents were in (I.E. A kid that will NOT listen or react to ANY conventional parenting method), I just might consider it.[/QUOTE]
Let's brake it down: Putting tabasco sauce in a childs mouth and making the child swish it around is "creative parenting"? This doesn't sound completely insane to you? What would this teach the child? Please, enlighten me.
Now, second part: If you end up in the same situation and you [i]might[/i] consider it, you have pretty much failed to raise a child in safe enviroment and a sane background.
[QUOTE]It wasn't just "lying about work". It was playing the system itself and playing on the sympathy of my teachers to every degree possible because I KNEW that there was no serious punishment that either my parents or the school would use. They refused to hold me back and let me fail, and because of that I continued with what I was doing.[/QUOTE]
This means that you aren't to blame but the teachers and parents themselfs. They wouldn't let you fail so you never realised that actions have consequences. Again, bad parenting.
[QUOTE]Every other method was ineffective. My parents were out of options, nothing was working. I got home one day, lied again about the ususal thing, this had been happening for... 3 years straight now with no end in sight. Mom lost her nerve, and she hit me across the face. That was the only time in my life that that had happened, and she apologized afterwards.[/QUOTE]
So for 3 years straight, your parents and teachers, couldn't "reason" with you or (let me emphasise this) [B]ANYTHING[/B] else so then she smacked you and apologized. Again, bad parenting.
[QUOTE]Kids have a line in their heads. They don't know where it is and neither do the parents. You concentrate on the single mistake that they ever made in the 19 years i've been alive, you're just like the state in that regard. Flipping out over literally nothing.[/QUOTE]
Why do you bring up "the line" when nobody knows where it is? I never had a "line" and neither did any of my friends. We were taught that if you just talked and tried to get understand each other, we never ended up in a situation where a slap in the face where needed. It's funny again, you know why? Because you say that they have made 1 single mistake (NOT counting the cold shower which is really bad parenting aswell) and I'm overreacting?
[QUOTE]They tried reasoning, I caught on quickly. I sought out any way to get out of the argument and go back to what I was doing because I saw that what I was doing was working. "I get to play, avoid work, and I only get slapped on the wrist by my parents? Pfft, hell yeah." You are in the same group right now as every single person that has ever thought that they knew what to do in that case. However, if you were around when I was there, you would eventually be in the "well shit, I don't know anymore. Nothing that I have suggested has any affect and now we're all out of ideas"[/QUOTE]
They tried "reasoning" and when you just threw pretty much a hissy fit they gave up and couldn't take it? It's funny you should mention that if I were around you, I would get the same idea but guess what?
I wouldn't. I have taken care of 3 children and a mentally handicapped brother that were pretty much just the same as you, without giving up. It's not fucking rocket science, you talk to them like they are adult midgets. You sit them down and you explain in simple words. Explain the consqeuences and what happens when they do it. Not a single problem down the line for me as well as my sister who has 3 kids and NEVER has she had to result to a: "Well shit, I don't know anymore" situation. I know all of my friends parents never had a brakedown because they used the same technique on both me and my friends.
Watching that kind of made me want to cry.
[QUOTE=TBFundy;31815086]there is a point where capital punishment is alright though, I doubt when he said hit he meant punched, rather smacked[/QUOTE]
Why? And how would this help the child with his problems or the parent to grow and understand his/her own child?
[QUOTE]my parents would break out the switch (a long, thin stick with a lot of flexibity) and give me a few smacks on the tush after I refused to negotiate with words[/QUOTE]
What did you learn from that? My father yelled at me, called me a worthless piece of shit, yelled at me infront of me friends and do you know what I learned from that? That he failed as a parent.
[QUOTE]maybe the cold shower isn't as bad as it seems but the hot sauce is just too far
I think the fact that she seemed very unloving is the reason I was so upset, rather than the punishment[/QUOTE]
You don't need to put your kid in a cold shower. What would he learn from this? The punishment goes hand in hand with the parents inability to understand it's child.
[QUOTE=Toothpick;31815146]If you think [b]reasoning and understanding[/b] with someone who is going to fight to the death with what they want, is the only way to raise your kid you don't know shit about parenting and will grow up to have kids like this;[/QUOTE]
excuse me but you have no idea what you're talking about
you've just shown the other end of the spectrum to make your end seem more justifiable, letting a child do [I]anything[/I] is just as bad as beating them for doing something wrong. You're not supposed to do that simply because then the child won't do bad things because they will get beaten instead of not doing bad things [I]because they're bad[/I]. It solves the problem for the parent, not the child.
[QUOTE=GeneralFredrik;31815615]Why? And how would this help the child with his problems or the parent to grow and understand his/her own child?
What did you learn from that? My father yelled at me, called me a worthless piece of shit, yelled at me infront of me friends and do you know what I learned from that? That he failed as a parent.
You don't need to put your kid in a cold shower. What would he learn from this? The punishment goes hand in hand with the parents inability to understand it's child.[/QUOTE]
well mainly I learned that if I made the wrong decisions I would be punished
it's not like everytime my teacher gave me a mark I got the switch, it's just if I neglected my warnings
and continued to do wrong even after given ample chance
I never got timeouts because sitting in one spot for a half hour doesn't do much in terms of punishment for me
and even then some people take cold showers exclusively because they have no other choice
the hot sauce is fucked up though I'll give you that
People don't understand that you aren't supposed treat a child like this when they are this old. Punishment should be done when the child is from ages 2 - 3, because that is when you learn basic stuff (walking, talking). Punishment other than spanking can be definable as against the federal law of child abuse. [QUOTE] Any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse or exploitation; [/QUOTE]
Spanking is still abuse. A legal definition means absolutely nothing.
[QUOTE=Toothpick;31815146]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-ld57eaS-s[/media]
[/QUOTE]
what is this, i'm looking at an extremely disturbed child being laughed at by an arsehole.
[QUOTE=TBFundy;31815819][B]well mainly I learned that if I made the wrong decisions I would be punished[/B][/QUOTE]
This teaches the child not to do wrong things because then they would be punished and that they should do the right things, which are the things that their parents want
as opposed to teaching a child not to do wrong things beacuse they're wrong, and that they should do right things because they're right
Kids need to be taught a moral compass which they then form, not [I]given[/I] one.
[QUOTE=Chilean;31812060]to me it's not even that the punishment is that bad it's more about how minor his misbehavior was.[/QUOTE] Agreed, what child doesn't pretend pencils are swords. Wriggling in your seat? Its hard to stay still. This woman is not cut out to be a mother. Also why the hell would you film this?
[QUOTE=TBFundy;31815819]well mainly I learned that if I made the wrong decisions I would be punished[/QUOTE]
So you learned that if you made the wrong "decisions" you would be punished instead of you know, understanding why it's wrong in the first place.
[QUOTE]it's not like everytime my teacher gave me a mark I got the switch, it's just if I neglected my warnings
and continued to do wrong even after given ample chance[/QUOTE]
And this is were the parents and teachers failed. You don't use violence-ops, sorry, I mean: Capital punishment when you can't fucking talk to a child. It's such an utter failure it's pathetic.
[QUOTE]I never got timeouts because sitting in one spot for a half hour doesn't do much in terms of punishment for me
and even then some people take cold showers exclusively because they have no other choice
the hot sauce is fucked up though I'll give you that[/QUOTE]
I never got timeouts either, you know why? Because they made me realise why the things I did were wrong. They made me understand, not punish. Sorry, I don't understand the shower part of your post. Well, my father yelled at me in my face and told me I was shit because I made a wrong decision but he sucks balls anyway. My mother calmly explained and Hallelujah! It worked! It's like a miracle.
[QUOTE=Sanius;31816076]Spanking is still abuse. A legal definition means absolutely nothing.[/QUOTE]
It's more depending on the jury if this went to court. And judging by the like/dislike bar, the jury would not like this.
This is fucking stupid. I got swatted on the ass a couple of times for being bad. I spit on my aunt, stuck my tongue out at my grandmother and shit at school in a bucket then covered it up with sand and put it on the back step.
I think a swat on the ass with a belt taught me not to be an asshole child.
[QUOTE=GeneralFredrik;31815492]stuffstuffstuffi'mnotquotingsomuchstuff[/QUOTE]
There is nothing that can be said to either of us to change our opinion.
I was a shitty child and knew how things worked. I used that to my advantage. The school wouldn't let me fail, and the ONLY thing that was ever effective enough to make me grow the hell up was seeing reality quickly approaching, trying to fix my shit before I got there, and then getting there and absolutely failing in a glorious ball of fire because I didn't know what the hell I was doing and was absolutely not ready for it. I wasn't ready for it because I refused to learn and grow up in the years past. There was literally not a single punishment that they gave me that worked. Groundings, spankings, timeout, extensive chores, more grounding, lots of grounding, cold shower was tried once and found useless, taking away most things happy and reducing me to basics was tried and failed, they tried everything EXCEPT abuse. "The line" is the point that the child realizes that whatever punishment sucks and they stop pulling whatever shit they are pulling to cause said punishment. They tried for 15 years, and not a thing at all worked except of letting me experience absolute failure. THAT was my line, seeing my efforts and attempts reduced to absolute shit and having to face my parents as a failure. That was my line, and i've grown up since then. I don't want to use those methods on my kids in the future because I don't like them, and I will try everything else before having to get "creative" like that, but the line is somewhere. Some kids "the line" is around grounding. Some kids its past groundings and timeout and things, and for some it takes so much shit that just about everyone gives up on you except your parents. My parents were not bad parents, I sure hope you aren't implying they were.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;31816232]There is nothing that can be said to either of us to change our opinion.
I was a shitty child and knew how things worked. I used that to my advantage. The school wouldn't let me fail, and the ONLY thing that was ever effective enough to make me grow the hell up was seeing reality quickly approaching, trying to fix my shit before I got there, and then getting there and absolutely failing in a glorious ball of fire because I didn't know what the hell I was doing and was absolutely not ready for it.[/QUOTE]
Because your parents were shit and their methods were shit
[quote]I wasn't ready for it because I refused to learn and grow up in the years past. There was literally not a single punishment that they gave me that worked. Groundings, spankings, timeout, extensive chores, more grounding, lots of grounding, cold shower was tried once and found useless, taking away most things happy and reducing me to basics was tried and failed, they tried everything EXCEPT abuse.[/QUOTE]
spankings and cold showers [I]are[/I] abuse, what the hell are you talking about?
[quote]"The line" is the point that the child realizes that whatever punishment sucks and they stop pulling whatever shit they are pulling to cause said punishment.[/QUOTE]
instead of understanding why it's wrong, which believe me works [I]years[/I] faster
[quote] They tried for 15 years, and not a thing at all worked except of letting me experience absolute failure. THAT was my line, seeing my efforts and attempts reduced to absolute shit and having to face my parents as a failure. That was my line, and i've grown up since then. I don't want to use those methods on my kids in the future because I don't like them, and I will try everything else before having to get "creative" like that, but the line is somewhere. Some kids "the line" is around grounding. Some kids its past groundings and timeout and things, and for some it takes so much shit that just about everyone gives up on you except your parents. My parents were not bad parents, I sure hope you aren't implying they were.[/QUOTE]
Okay, I retract my previous statement, they weren't shitty people but they did use shitty parenting methods
Am I one of the few that agrees with her punishments? You misbehave, at least you don't get a red ass from a spanking or a belt whip. Have some Frank's Red Hot Sauce "Put that shit on everything!". I say it's a great alternative to going "Oh, this is wrong because it just is, you gotta learn it's okay, you can take this chocolate bar from the store but it's wroooong.
Shoot the bitch!
[QUOTE=wewt!;31816332]Because your parents were shit and their methods were shit
[B]My kneejerk reaction to this statement would have gotten me banned.[/B]
spankings and cold showers [I]are[/I] abuse, what the hell are you talking about?
[B]wow, spankings are abuse? Answers one question I had about some of the reactions I'm seeing on this thread.[/B]
instead of understanding why it's wrong, which believe me works [I]years[/I] faster
[B]I understood completely why what I was doing was wrong, but I knew that there was nothing that would be done to me by the state or my parents that would have any permanent affects on me, and so I continued with what I was doing.[/B]
Okay, I retract my previous statement, they weren't shitty people but they did use shitty parenting methods
[B]thank you for retracting at least half your statement. The methods they used may have been considered "shitty", but they were out of options. Conventional methods were useless and both myself and my parents knew this. They saw the direction I was just about sprinting in and they tried their damnedest to stop me from going there. Unfortunately, it took 15 years to figure out that the only thing that would stop me is the real world.[/B][/QUOTE]
Regardless, i'm gonna stop posting on this, its turning into far more of a shitstorm than I want to be in.
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