NYC Just Released a List of Officially Recognized Genders
90 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Diet Kane;50439649]okay what the fuck is a "two-spirit"
that sounds like something a racist stereotype cliche Tanto-like character would say[/QUOTE]
"this Native American thing I know nothing about sounds stereotypically Native American"
really
[QUOTE=OneFourth;50436507]the list from fruxo's pdf
BI-GENDERED • CROSS-DRESSER • DRAG KING • DRAG QUEEN
FEMME QUEEN • FEMALE-TO-MALE • FTM • GENDER BENDER
GENDERQUEER • MALE-TO-FEMALE • MTF • NON-OP • HIJRA
PANGENDER • TRANSEXUAL/TRANSSEXUAL • TRANS PERSON
WOMAN • MAN • BUTCH • TWO-SPIRIT • TRANS • AGENDER
THIRD SEX • GENDER FLUID • NON-BINARY TRANSGENDER
ANDROGYNE • NON-BINARY TRANSGENDER WITH SPRINKLES • GENDER GIFTED • GENDER BLENDER • FEMME
PERSON OF TRANSGENDER EXPERIENCE • ANDROGYNOUS[/QUOTE]
A lot of these aren't even genders, even if you follow some of the more obscure "genders."
Drag is a hobby, not an identity. Female-to-male is being transgender, where your gender is male. Likewise for Male-to-female. Cross-dresser is a term that should be dead, as well isn't even ever used in a gender identifying context. Butch isn't gender, more a style of gender expression. Third sex is sex, not gender (duh). Non-Op is just a prefix to transgenderism.
Also I JUST noticed "Non-Binary Transgender With Sprinkles"
Okay this is satire
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;50439660]"this Native American thing I know nothing about sounds stereotypically Native American"
really[/QUOTE]
It's on a list of genders, how was I supposed to know it was actually something in Native American culture and not just white college kids appropriating something?
Also thanks for the condescending tone, it's very appreciated.
[QUOTE=Combine 177;50439141]Well gender is pretty much just glorified word for personality and/or appearance.
Anything can be gender in the end, it is like art.[/QUOTE]
Well, no, if it was then trans people wouldn't exist
[QUOTE=.Isak.;50438928]You're right, we should be intolerant of people with gender dysphoria. Let's be intolerant of schizophrenics and those with depression as well - go right on back to the 1880s and throw them in insane asylums and rape them and beat them. Or just lobotomize them so they can conform to acceptable social identities. Because changing [i]people[/i] by cutting out their brains and traumatizing them is much much easier and morally sound than just changing the social rules that they live by to accept them instead of exclude them.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, lets do that because we think that calling someone a "non binary transgender with sprinkles" or a "gender bender/blender" or "Femme person of transgender experience" is kinda redundant when we could really just have Male, Female, and Genderqueer / whatever the name is for basically "Doesnt define as male or female"
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;50439680]A lot of these aren't even genders, even if you follow some of the more obscure "genders."
Drag is a hobby, not an identity. Female-to-male is being transgender, where your gender is male. Likewise for Male-to-female. Cross-dresser is a term that should be dead, as well isn't even ever used in a gender identifying context. Butch isn't gender, more a style of gender expression. Third sex is sex, not gender (duh). Non-Op is just a prefix to transgenderism.
Also I JUST noticed "Non-Binary Transgender With Sprinkles"
Okay this is satire[/QUOTE]
If your position can be turned into satire, it probably it is not the correct one.
[QUOTE=Dayzofwinter;50439876]If your position can be turned into satire, it probably it is not the correct one.[/QUOTE]
OK I'm pretty sure this guy is a troll account
I'd say "this is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on SH" but all of his fucking posts are like this.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;50439886]OK I'm pretty sure this guy is a troll account
I'd say "this is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on SH" but all of his fucking posts are like this.[/QUOTE]
What is your suggestion to prevent this gender alphabet from becoming absurd or abused?
I believe transgender is real and should be protected, but this points out its getting a bit too far.
[QUOTE=Dayzofwinter;50439903]What is your suggestion to prevent this gender alphabet from becoming absurd or abused?
I believe transgender is real and should be protected, but this points out its getting a bit too far.[/QUOTE]
It's called common sense. I'm pretty sure that the overwhelming majority of trans people have it, too. The problem here is that nobody wants to call out the bullshit for what it is.
[QUOTE=archangel125;50439954]It's called common sense. I'm pretty sure that the overwhelming majority of trans people have it, too. The problem here is that nobody wants to call out the bullshit for what it is.[/QUOTE]
Let say this list is made up for discrimination reasons. What to stop me making up my own pronoun, and suing the hell out of you or any one else for not pronouncing the preferred pronoun?
[QUOTE=Dayzofwinter;50439876]If your position can be turned into satire, it probably it is not the correct one.[/QUOTE]
Literally anything can be made into satire.
[QUOTE=Jacen;50439994]Literally anything can be made into satire.[/QUOTE]
This. There is no position that can't be taken to extremes.
[QUOTE=Katatonic717;50439110]How the fuck is "Crossdresser" a gender?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;50439680]A lot of these aren't even genders, even if you follow some of the more obscure "genders."
Drag is a hobby, not an identity. Female-to-male is being transgender, where your gender is male. Likewise for Male-to-female. Cross-dresser is a term that should be dead, as well isn't even ever used in a gender identifying context. Butch isn't gender, more a style of gender expression. Third sex is sex, not gender (duh). Non-Op is just a prefix to transgenderism.
Also I JUST noticed "Non-Binary Transgender With Sprinkles"
Okay this is satire[/QUOTE]
I've seen a bunch of posts like these but I don't feel like quoting 10 different people in one post.
It isn't that hard to just look at [url=http://www.nyc.gov/html/cchr/downloads/pdf/publications/GenderID_Card2015.pdf]the list in question[/url].
As far as I can tell, it isn't a list of genders, it is a list of words related to gender, gender identity, and gender expression. They should have split the list into columns or groups, because leaving them in one unorganized clump leads to confusion like this.
The more important part is the first side of the card. The gist of it, from what I can tell, is "don't throw out a tenant of your apartment complex because they like drag", "don't yell at transgender people you see in public, "don't fire someone because they're transitioning", etc.
(Although an exception would be wearing drag in the workplace. Crossdressing, sure, if it's a gender identity related thing, but if it's full on flashy make-up and clothing, it should [I]probably[/I] not be in the workplace. Cis women don't get to wear overly flashy stuff in the workplace either.)
Although this is the first time I've heard of "gender gifted" and "person of transgender experience".
For gender gifted, the most I can tell is from Urban Dictionary, which is probably a bad sign. There are a few scattered pieces here are there on other sites, but it seems like the trans equivalent of "handicapable".
And "person of transgender experience" is obviously just a really fancy way of saying "transgender". Like saying "person of homosexual experience" or "person of female experience". It tries to put emphasis on "person" first but it ends up looking too overly detailed to be taken as seriously as just saying "transgender person". I guess they're trying to copy "people of color", but that describes a bunch of different races. This is like saying "person of Asian heritage". Yeah, it might have use in specific cases, but it's too over the top for day to day use. On the other hand, the card isn't saying that this is an everyday use term. That, along with all of the other duplicate terms, contributes to all of the confusion.
"drag king/queen"
"gender gifted"
"gender bender"
also, either say "I adhere to these socially established genders because they're binary and easy", or say "gender is a social construct and therefore I do not need to identify as either", don't create these insane multiplicities, or at least don't force them upon others.
Gender can be perceived as an INFINITE spectrum, sanctioning it off into approximations of how you feel (half butch nan0boi) just opens doors to perpetually be offended and not feel properly represented. Just be who you are, NOBODY but you cares as much about your gender as you do. Nothing is -ever- going to change that.
[QUOTE=Radical_ed;50440067]"drag king/queen"
"gender gifted"
"gender bender"
also, either say "I adhere to these socially established genders because they're binary and easy", or say "gender is a social construct and therefore I do not need to identify as either", don't create these insane multiplicities, or at least don't force them upon others.
Gender can be perceived as an INFINITE spectrum, sanctioning it off into approximations of how you feel (half butch nan0boi) just opens doors to perpetually be offended and not feel properly represented. Just be who you are, NOBODY but you cares as much about your gender as you do. Nothing is -ever- going to change that.[/QUOTE]
I think you've gotten to the meat of it here. This is what the problem is. Having a few terms that are supposed to encompass the whole spectrum is better than coming up with a list of retarded new pronouns that are going to be the subject of worldwide ridicule and actually hurt your cause. In addition to being exclusionary.
[QUOTE=archangel125;50440369]I think you've gotten to the meat of it here. This is what the problem is. Having a few terms that are supposed to encompass the whole spectrum is better than coming up with a list of retarded new pronouns that are going to be the subject of worldwide ridicule and actually hurt your cause. In addition to being exclusionary.[/QUOTE]
This is what I meant by turned into satire. It is becoming unwieldy.
My personal view while transgender is a real thing, it can create a mess. I really don't know so I am not arguing one way or another.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;50439092]Jesus fucking Christ, calm down. That's one of the ugliest strawman arguments I've ever seen from you. There are good ways to argue for the existence of non-binary genders and this is not one of them.[/QUOTE]
He said "being intolerant of that isn't right" about calling a woman a slut, and then implied that it might be okay to be intolerant of a transgendered person by saying "but gender-gifted? hmm..."
At least that's the way I read it. If I misinterpreted it, my bad, but I read "but gender-gifted? hmm..." as a continuation of the previous paragraph where he said that intolerance against women isn't right and then seemed hesitant about it towards "gender-gifted" individuals.
Didn't mean to strawman his argument, I think I just misinterpreted what he was trying to say.
[editline]2nd June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=archangel125;50439299]Um... Isak? Not only am I convinced that the source lied, but as someone who considers himself a transgender rights ally, I'm still confused about the... legitimacy of some of these designations?
Don't get me wrong, I get that people can feel they were born in the wrong body, and want to transition to another physical sex or social gender. So we've got MTF and FTM transgender individuals. Then you've got some who were born as hermaphrodites and may or may not suffer gender dysphoria, all that. The Two-spirit thing? Sure, if it's got cultural precedent, it's got cultural precedent for native Americans. I won't pretend to know better. As for those who are transgendered but don't want to undergo an operation, it's not hard to see why even someone with gender dysphoria might not feel right going under the knife. So okay, let's say Non-op is legit too (Because I personally feel that could easily fall under some of the other categories).
In what world does "Drag king" or "Drag queen" or even "Agender" deserve the same consideration? And what in hell does "gender-gifted" or "gender bender" mean? Are any of these things things that can't be classified under an umbrella term without risking offense to said individuals? Is "agender" even an actual case of gender dysphoria? Because I'm not quite sure how that works.
Maybe I'm ignorant, but this list seems to go far beyond the reasonable and into the territory of pure satire.[/QUOTE]
I agree that some of them seem odd and I haven't heard of a lot of them before, but I get the spirit of the bill - it's an anti-transgender-discrimination bill at heart. Making a list of phrases seems unusual and unwieldy because it is - more general language would have preferable. Instead of a whitelist of gender identities, I would have preferred a blacklist of discriminatory language for discrimination suits.
As far as the "drag" designations go, I'd assume its protections for those who dress in drag in their off-time. If you can prove you're facing workplace discrimination because you dress in drag, which has next to nothing to do with gender identity, then yes, you should be able to file a discrimination lawsuit. Most would agree. Bundling it into a bill on gender identity distracts from the intention, to say the least.
I don't know enough about this bill to explain why they chose what words they did, and I think it's an unusual way to get about it. It's still preferable to no protections, though.
Why not just
Male
Female
Other
[QUOTE=phygon;50441530]Why not just
Male
Female
Other[/QUOTE]
The people under the "Other" category might feel alienated and [URL="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/otherize"]otherized[/URL]. Generally speaking being the 'other' has negative connotations.
I'm a monogenderist, I believe that there is but one gender, and that all gender expressions are merely expressions of the one [b]true[/b] gender which is both gender expressive and non-gender expressive.
[QUOTE=Zyler;50441800]The people under the "Other" category might feel alienated and [URL="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/otherize"]otherized[/URL]. Generally speaking being the 'other' has negative connotations.[/QUOTE]
I frankly don't really care, it's better than having a gargantuan list that's not standardized
You could replace other with "queer" or something but I think that that word has all kinds of negative connotations even if it is "reclaimed"
[QUOTE=Zyler;50441800]The people under the "Other" category might feel alienated and [URL="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/otherize"]otherized[/URL]. Generally speaking being the 'other' has negative connotations.[/QUOTE]
So the Alex Brown (me) Solution to Genders is as follows.
The only official genders are male, female, and other. However, genders have to be identifiable in order to prevent otherization. This identity is achieved through percentage. Whether you're mildly gender bent such as cross-dressing or extremely gender bent such as trans, you identify as a percentage of two or three genders. For example, take three males by sex. A male cross-dresser's gender might be 80% M 20% F, MtF trans 90% F 10% M, and an agender maybe 90% O 10% M. The choice is theirs and they can even order them as they see fit. Instead of piling others into their own bin, everybody aligns with a percentage that they create themselves and therefore identify with. So any degree of other is quantified to avoid creating a label.
How anybody decides to express themselves from that point on is up to them. They don't have to label themselves something others may find derogatory just because that's how they express themselves. Percentages avoid any prejudice because they're numbers, not profiles.
Remember this post when I get famous.
[QUOTE=phygon;50441530]Why not just
Male
Female
Other[/QUOTE]
outside of the otherization as previously mentioned, you'd aslo be putting agender and bigender into the same category, which is stupid since they're 2 completely different things.
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