How can I eat a burger I got through the drivethrough while alternating between taking a drink and smoking a cigarette with a manual?
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;48140471]
However, I find hilarious that you'd consider driving with a manual transmission less fuel efficient than driving with an auto transmission.[/QUOTE]
once again, it isn't 1995 anymore, there are a buttload of automatics that I can pretty much guarantee will outperform a stick shift fuel economy wise, CVT is seeing to that
Welp, that's BMW off my dream car wall. They can join the likes of Ferrari in the 'Really nice, really fast cars that I want absolutely nothing to do with solely because I can't get 'em with a manual anymore' pile. I think at this point my 'High-end cars to buy with a powerball win' wall only has like four or five things on it...anyone know if the DB9 and the Gallardo still have manual options? P.sure the R10 V10 still does, even if it is an Audi.[QUOTE=christarp;48139091]Honestly automatics these days are better than manuals, gone are the days of ye olde slushbox.[/QUOTE]
For many of us it isn't as much the 'slushbox' aspect of it as it is we simply enjoy rowing our own. That applies doubly so to cars ostensibly designed for gearheads(Let's be honest most businessmen won't get the M-version they'll go for the 7-series diesel LWB).
I'm more or less in the 'no third pedal no purchase' camp. My only exception is certain cars that are easily converted yet never came factory equipped. My next car is one such exception, Ford never offered a Crown Vic P71 with a stickshift yet that's what I'm buying next.
Happily enough converting them is perfectly plausible for a shadetree like myself using Mustang parts. Thank fuck Ford standardized things like bellhousing bolt patterns, flywheel bolt patterns, pedal groups and the like. I don't have to do a single bit of welding to swap a 'Vic over to a stick, so I will within 12 months own a 'Vic with a stick.
T-thanks America..
[QUOTE=AlexDeviant;48140666]T-thanks America..[/QUOTE]
Don't blame us for this. We account for too small a percentage of M-series sales to be responsible for just 5% of M-cars shipping with a third pedal.
[QUOTE=Jackpody;48139374]Going to go on a limb here but if we analyse the transmission question through superiority, the manual transmission would in theory be superior to the automatic by US law as you may drive both a manual and an automatic if you get your license in a manual car, but if you take your license in an automatic, you're limited to those. Not much to say about the rest of the world as you must take your license in a manual car.
On the article, I haven't been able to find any other sources claiming this. Anyone able to find more?[/QUOTE]
You're thinking of the UK. The USA doesn't give a shit what you show up to do the driving test, be it an 7 speed Porsche or a Tesla with no gears. Once you get your license, you can drive anything short of a bus.
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;48140597]once again, it isn't 1995 anymore, there are a buttload of automatics that I can pretty much guarantee will outperform a stick shift fuel economy wise, CVT is seeing to that[/QUOTE]
Not in the city. All automatics using a fluid coupling between the input shaft and transmission will do worse in the city than a manual transmission simply because fluid couplings waste a TON of energy slipping. Also, hydraulic pressure is at its highest when rowing through the lower gears, so the hydraulic pump in the trans is sapping the most power here.
You're not gonna get an automatic that'll outdo a manual in efficiency until you start getting dual-clutch sequential boxes...which, coincidentally, are what you find in high end sports sedans and supercars! Such transmissions are, however, prohibitively expensive and thus won't be in Average Joe's driveway for a LONG time.
[QUOTE=Saber15;48140684]You're thinking of the UK. The USA doesn't give a shit what you show up to do the driving test, be it an 7 speed Porsche or a Tesla with no gears. Once you get your license, you can drive anything short of a bus.[/QUOTE]
Actually I think you can drive a bus and even heavy "18 wheeler" trucks as long as either vehicle is for private/personal use and under 26,000 lbs since it's more or less being used as an RV at that point. I guess it makes sense, since you're also free to get any liter bike at 16 as a first motorcycle.
'Murica
Supposedly a BMW focus group found out 80% of 1 series drivers didn't know they were driving a RWD car, most people just don't care what BMW has been doing.
-snip-
[QUOTE=TestECull;48140685]You're not gonna get an automatic that'll outdo a manual in efficiency until you start getting dual-clutch sequential boxes...which, coincidentally, are what you find in high end sports sedans and supercars! Such transmissions are, however, prohibitively expensive and thus won't be in Average Joe's driveway for a LONG time.[/QUOTE]
Your statement is misleading because dual-clutch gearboxes are in many modern production cars aimed at the mass market. Eg many cars in Ford's lineup such as the Focus and Mondeo are available with a dual-clutch gearbox. Many European cars, even economy models such as the VW Golf have dual-clutch gearboxes as the automatic transmission option.
Then with other types of automatic transmissions, you have cars such as the Subaru Impreza and WRX with CVT autos, which although less mechanically efficient than other transmissions are the most fuel efficient as the engine can operate at its most efficient RPM for more of the time and without the fluid coupling disadvantage of torque converter autos, and the transmission itself can be cheaper than other automatic transmissions.
Notice how none of the cars mentioned above are high-end sports sedans or supercars.
[QUOTE=TestECull;48140685]Not in the city. All automatics using a fluid coupling between the input shaft and transmission will do worse in the city than a manual transmission simply because fluid couplings waste a TON of energy slipping. Also, hydraulic pressure is at its highest when rowing through the lower gears, so the hydraulic pump in the trans is sapping the most power here.
[/QUOTE]
re-read my post
[quote]once again, it isn't 1995 anymore, there are a buttload of automatics that I can pretty much guarantee will outperform a stick shift fuel economy wise, [B]CVT is seeing to that[/B][/quote]
CVT doesn't use a hydraulic coupling
between CVT and, as you said, DCT, automatics have more or less overtaken or at least come to parity with manual gearboxes fuel efficiency wise
I used to drive both auto and manual. It's the same thing to me and I never got the elitism of either.
But then again I just look at cars as a thing that can take me from point a to b faster. I don't get why people fall in love with these things and spend thousands more for new cars just because they look nicer.
In weird.
I like my Subaru CVT. Much easier to drive than the Honda civic with a stickshift, and more or less the same responsiveness when you put the transmission in "sports mode".
I drive a 4 speed auto and still select the ratio manually, mostly because it's such a sluggish and inefficient transmission.
Some people find joy in driving and having more control of their car, if you don't understand that, it's fine, but don't chalk it up to people who enjoy driving being "elitist". If I can help it, I'd always prefer a manual, and if given the chance, I would swap a 5-speed manual transmission into my cheap heap.
DCT and CVT just feel so.. fake. Like there's nothing connecting me to the wheels. Toyotas are the worst, I feel like I'm piloting a magic carpet with A/C and a media center.
[QUOTE=MIPS;48139371]Newfies and BMW both confirmed to be pussies.[/QUOTE]
Don't you drive a Geo?
[highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("posted outside development-dedicated threads/sections" - BANNED USER))[/highlight]
To be honest, automatics have been very slowly gaining in popularity, and are increasingly gaining an edge over manuals. I mean twenty years ago this certainly wasn't the case, but in twenty years I won't be surprised if loads of car manufacturers begin to drop manuals entirely and focus on automatics. Cars are no longer just a machine somebody drives around. It's an increasingly complex mix of machinery and electronics that requires programmers and shit.
Manual is more for the experience and fun of driving. Even if the cars end up slightly inferior, I wouldnt care as far as I get to have my driving experience not change.
[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;48141666]I drive a 4 speed auto and still select the ratio manually, mostly because it's such a sluggish and inefficient transmission.
Some people find joy in driving and having more control of their car, if you don't understand that, it's fine, but don't chalk it up to people who enjoy driving being "elitist". If I can help it, I'd always prefer a manual, and if given the chance, I would swap a 5-speed manual transmission into my cheap heap.
DCT and CVT just feel so.. fake. Like there's nothing connecting me to the wheels. Toyotas are the worst, I feel like I'm piloting a [B]magic carpet with A/C and a media center.[/B][/QUOTE]
Dream car right here.
[QUOTE=Levelog;48141859]Dream car right here.[/QUOTE]
[T]http://cdn.mos.techradar.com/art/car%20tech/Google%20self-driving%20car/googlecar%20(1)-1200-80.jpg[/t]
Besides, with a manual transmission when I end up damaging a gear or causing some other damage to my shift forks or synchros, I can disconnect the axles, drop the subframe, crack open the transmission case and see what is worn or damaged and replace it myself for a few hundred dollars at the most.
But when it comes down to doing that with a current- generation torque-converter or DCT auto, you get to the part where you open it and you look at everything inside and just think "What the fuck is all of this magic, did I just find a flux capacitor and some receipts? Why did I do this?" No, you can't do much, better put it all back together, then call a tow truck to take it back to the dealership and fork out thousands of dollars for a whole new transmission.
Oh well. At least you get to drive a brand new sumptuous S-Class rental around while your BMW is in the shop for a week.
[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;48141977]Besides, with a manual transmission when I end up damaging a gear or causing some other damage to my shift forks or synchros, I can disconnect the axles, drop the subframe, crack open the transmission case and see what is worn or damaged and replace it myself for a few hundred dollars at the most.
But when it comes down to doing that with a current- generation torque-converter or DCT auto, you get to the part where you open it and you look at everything inside and just think "What the fuck is all of this magic, did I just find a flux capacitor and some receipts? Why did I do this?" No, you can't do much, better take it back to the dealership and fork out thousands of dollars for a whole new transmission.
Oh well. At least you get to drive a brand new sumptuous S-Class rental around while your BMW is in the shop for a week.[/QUOTE]
The average person would have to bring the first car in your example to a mechanic either way.
Big companies focus on the main demographic, this is the best financial decision and the most convenient solution for [I]most[/I] users.
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;48139913]Except when you really want to downshift and the gawddamn transmission won't downshift unless you're at around 1.5k RPM.
It's so annoying.[/QUOTE]
most modern autos downshift once at half throttle and many again at full throttle. plus everything has manumatic now.
Some day the "average" person will be driven around by their car, and before anything can break, the car automatically decides to drop you off at the dealership for diagnostics, firmware and driver updates, and a tune-up.
"Car, I'm hungry, take me to Taco Bell drivethru."
"Setting route to Taco Bell, The time is 5:38pm, arrival at 5:44pm."
"Maintenance and firmware update required; setting route to BMW of Arlington."
"nonono go back go back go back!"
"The time is 5:40pm, arrival at 7:32pm."
"why car whyyy nooo I said I'm hungry!"
"An autonomous rental car has been queued for you at BMW of Arlington."
Thanks, but I'll stick with my cheap piece of crap analog sedan.
[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;48142095]
Thanks, but I'll stick with my cheap piece of crap analog sedan.[/QUOTE]
They'll be banned, wouldn't want to go to jail for public endangerment by driving a car yourself would you?
[QUOTE=butre;48142066]most modern autos downshift once at half throttle and many again at full throttle. plus everything has manumatic now.[/QUOTE]
I think the only car I've sat in over the past year that didn't have manumatic was a prius
the trouble with manumatic of course being that they are unpleasant as fuck to downshift in and they usually have a pretty small number of gears, so you might as well just have it in automatic.
[QUOTE=Lamar;48142118]They'll be banned, wouldn't want to go to jail for public endangerment by driving a car yourself would you?[/QUOTE]
I'd just get a license to drive professionally. I don't think an autonomous car would agree to drive through a hurricane or deep snow like I do.
[QUOTE=Angus725;48141890][T]http://cdn.mos.techradar.com/art/car%20tech/Google%20self-driving%20car/googlecar%20(1)-1200-80.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
Honestly yes. Imagine the productivity on my daily commute if I didn't have to actually drive.
[QUOTE=Levelog;48142253]Honestly yes. Imagine the productivity on my daily commute if I didn't have to actually drive.[/QUOTE]
30 minutes more of Facepunch time every morning!
[QUOTE=Saber15;48140684]You're thinking of the UK. The USA doesn't give a shit what you show up to do the driving test, be it an 7 speed Porsche or a Tesla with no gears. Once you get your license, you can drive anything short of a bus.[/QUOTE]
wha you show up in?
here in Germany you show up in the car of the driving school
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