• US Postal Service may default on a $5.5 billion trust fund payment Sept. 30th
    155 replies, posted
Again I quote... [quote]The Private Express Statutes (or PES) are a group of United States federal civil and criminal laws placing various restrictions on the carriage and delivery of letters by all organizations other than the United States Postal Service.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32157901]You think competition is impossible? Is that why FedEx and UPS are viable services?[/quote] [b]Read what I said, please[/b]. So touchy and irritable, no, you can NOT deliver postage stamp mail in the form of letters. That's why nobody does. You can deliver packages but they require certain specifications. [QUOTE=Megafanx13;32157901]Do you have brain damage?[/QUOTE] How is the line of thinking inconsistent? [QUOTE=Megafanx13;32157932]Exactly. Socialized services are not set up with the intention of shitting on business owners, they are set up to provided a standardized service at a lower cost, and forgo competition in place of more efficient service and more access to that service.[/quote] What their "intentions" are is completely irrelevant. They do shit on business owners, and consumers. They have no reasonable competition since they don't charge for their services and consumers suffer for it.
[QUOTE=s0beit;32157959][b]Read what I said, please[/b]. So touchy and irritable, no, you can NOT deliver postage stamp mail in the form of letters. That's why nobody does. You can deliver packages but they require certain specifications.[/quote] Because that's what those services do? I'm not following you. [QUOTE=s0beit;32157959]How is the line of thinking inconsistent?[/QUOTE] Because if you can't afford to pay your taxes you don't get shot.
[QUOTE=Ottomann;32157947]Again I quote...[/QUOTE] which can be suspended if necessary so far it hasn't been necessary
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32157979]Because if you can't afford to pay your taxes you don't get shot.[/QUOTE] You're right, you go to prison. If you resist going to prison, that's when you get shot.
[QUOTE=s0beit;32157999]You're right, you go to prison. If you resist going to prison, that's when you get shot.[/QUOTE] No, you go to prison if you evade your taxes. You don't go to prison if you can't afford to pay them. You see we have these things called services, and money has to go to them. That's why we need taxes.
[QUOTE=s0beit;32157959][b]Read what I said, please[/b]. So touchy and irritable, no, you can NOT deliver postage stamp mail in the form of letters. That's why nobody does.[/QUOTE] so we went from just mail to postage stamp mail. i think you're missing the whole point which is that the USPS does not stifle competition when competition does exist to support where the USPS would fail. are you just arguing competition for the sake of competition? weak argument and not likely to work in any real case. if something better than the USPS comes along and proves advantageous to the public it will be adopted but so far it hasn't. [editline]6th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=s0beit;32157999]You're right, you go to prison. If you resist going to prison, that's when you get shot.[/QUOTE] pretty terrible way to argue against taxes. i think you're actually working against your favour
[QUOTE=thisispain;32158059]so we went from just mail to postage stamp mail. i think you're missing the whole point which is that the USPS does not stifle competition when competition does exist to support where the USPS would fail. are you just arguing competition for the sake of competition? weak argument and not likely to work in any real case. if something better than the USPS comes along and proves advantageous to the public it will be adopted but so far it hasn't.[/QUOTE] There cant be any competition if it is illegal for it to exist in the first place.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32158059]so we went from just mail to postage stamp mail. i think you're missing the whole point which is that the USPS does not stifle competition when competition does exist to support where the USPS would fail. are you just arguing competition for the sake of competition? weak argument and not likely to work in any real case. if something better than the USPS comes along and proves advantageous to the public it will be adopted but so far it hasn't.[/quote] Alright, fine, we'll play it your way. Fedex and UPS are competitors, so is email. The USPS has failed in the market and is running billions of dollars of losses. They should fail. [QUOTE=thisispain;32158059]pretty terrible way to argue against taxes. i think you're actually working against your favour[/QUOTE] How so? There's plenty of ways to reasonably have a voluntary based tax system. I've explained it before.
[QUOTE=Ottomann;32158114]There cant be any competition if it is illegal for it to exist in the first place.[/QUOTE] competition does exist, you're quoting laws yet don't know what they do [editline]6th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=s0beit;32158123]Alright, fine, we'll play it your way. Fedex and UPS are competitors, so is email. The USPS has failed in the market and is running billions of dollars of losses. They should fail.[/QUOTE] note how i argued specifically for a national postal service and not necessarily for a service that requires reform and has failed in general. [QUOTE=s0beit;32158123]How so? There's plenty of ways to reasonably have a voluntary based tax system. I've explained it before.[/QUOTE] well i hope they are less shallow than the argument that it's just like robbing someone with a gun
[QUOTE=s0beit;32158123]Alright, fine, we'll play it your way. Fedex and UPS are competitors, so is email. The USPS has failed in the market and is running billions of dollars of losses. They should fail.[/quote] That's like saying the NHS should fail if it ran at a loss. The point of it isn't to make profit. [QUOTE=s0beit;32158123]How so? There's plenty of ways to reasonably have a voluntary based tax system. I've explained it before.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I can guarantee you right now you're going to have a lot less people paying taxes and a lot more poor people without essential services.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32158201]That's like saying the NHS should fail if it ran at a loss. The point of it isn't to make profit.[/quote] You do know you're actively advocating the destruction of resources right? Running a loss is not something to be proud of. [QUOTE=Megafanx13;32158201]Yeah, I can guarantee you right now you're going to have a lot less people paying taxes and a lot more poor people without essential services.[/QUOTE] You'd have less people paying taxes, maybe, but services are exclusionary. Don't pay taxes for roads? Don't drive a car. Don't pay taxes for schools? Your kids can't go to one. Don't pay taxes for social security? You won't have it, you can save for yourself. It's easy to comprehend and there would only need to be taxes on non-exclusionary services, like the military.
[QUOTE=s0beit;32158235]You'd have less people paying taxes, maybe, but services are exclusionary. Don't pay taxes for roads? Don't drive a car. Don't pay taxes for schools? Your kids can't go to one. Don't pay taxes for social security? You won't have it, you can save for yourself. It's easy to comprehend and there would only need to be taxes on non-exclusionary services, like the military.[/QUOTE] Yeah, because the children should be at a loss if their parents decide they don't want to pay that tax. Do you even know why public schooling got started?
[QUOTE=Ottomann;32157476]I believe in liberty. So I have a right to my body and money and can do as I please with them.[/QUOTE] Think of taxes as paying for a service, the service of living in society. You're welcome to keep your money all to yourself and live in an unincorporated section of the woods if you want. You won't be able to use your money out there though.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32158316]Yeah, because the children should be at a loss if their parents decide they don't want to pay that tax. Do you even know why public schooling got started?[/QUOTE] First of all, that's a horrible pathetic argument since parents can decide to home school right now. Public schooling isn't mandatory if you have an alternative, so the parents, [b]right now[/b] can and should be able to decide to do whatever it is they please, be it home schooling or private schooling. Second, yes I know why public schooling got started. Some political gentlemen saw public schooling in effect in the Prussian school system and decided to steal it. [QUOTE=Zeke129;32158376]Think of taxes as paying for a service, the service of living in society. You're welcome to keep your money all to yourself and live in an unincorporated section of the woods if you want.[/QUOTE] Logical fallacy.
[QUOTE=s0beit;32158377] Logical fallacy.[/QUOTE] Which one
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32158386]Which one[/QUOTE] "If you dunt like Merkka you can giit out"
[QUOTE=s0beit;32158377]First of all, that's a horrible pathetic argument since parents can decide to home school right now. Public schooling isn't mandatory if you have an alternative, so the parents, [b]right now[/b] can and should be able to decide to do whatever it is they please, be it home schooling or private schooling. Second, yes I know why public schooling got started. Some political gentlemen saw public schooling in effect in the Prussian school system and decided to steal it.[/QUOTE] You let people opt out of paying for the public school system, and it's going to undermine the quality of the whole system. It's already short of funding, and you want to make that worse? [editline]6th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=s0beit;32158403]"If you dunt like Merkka you can giit out"[/QUOTE] America wasn't founded on the idea of having no taxes, but on taxes not being too high.
[QUOTE=s0beit;32158403]"If you dunt like Merkka you can giit out"[/QUOTE] Never heard of that logical fallacy before.
This is a huge deal, if the USPS were to be shutdown mail prices would skyrocket. UPS and FED-EX would raise prices dramatically. My brother works for the post office, if he loses his job I don't know where he'll be. I'm worried for him.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32158416]You let people opt out of paying for the public school system, and it's going to undermine the quality of the whole system. It's already short of funding, and you want to make that worse?[/quote] So what you're actually saying is, we have to take money from people against their will at the expense of others, because.... ? You're talking about taxing people who may never have children, which is particularly vicious since they have absolutely no obligation, not even indirectly to the school system. Or those who choose to school their children in different ways. They'll never use it, they never want to use it, yet they have to pay for it because why? [QUOTE=Megafanx13;32158416]America wasn't founded on the idea of having no taxes, but on taxes not being too high.[/QUOTE] I've grown up and learned enough to know that it's irrelevant what America was founded for. America wasn't founded so we could nationalize a bunch of services either, but I'm sure that's not stopping you. Nor would I tell you to go start your own NHS in the woods. [editline]e[/editline] [QUOTE=Biotoxsin;32158466]This is a huge deal, if the USPS were to be shutdown mail prices would skyrocket. UPS and FED-EX would raise prices dramatically. [/QUOTE] Do you have a historical or scientific basis for this?
[QUOTE=s0beit;32158470] Nor would I tell you to go start your own NHS in the woods.[/QUOTE] Vermont did.
[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;32158466]This is a huge deal, if the USPS were to be shutdown mail prices would skyrocket. UPS and FED-EX would raise prices dramatically. [/QUOTE] Speculation.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32158483]Vermont did.[/QUOTE] Not really, their land is incorporated. Good for them though, I don't mind if states have statewide services. I disagree with them but I don't plan on going there and it's their right to govern themselves how they please.
[QUOTE=s0beit;32158501]Not really, their land is incorporated. Good for them though, I don't mind if states have statewide services. I disagree with them but I don't plan on going there and it's their right to govern themselves how they please.[/QUOTE] Healthcare should be a human right, not something that politicians and corporations can make a buck off of. Private healthcare isn't better, you only need to look at the numbers. Sometimes it needs to stop being about ideology and more about doing what's right for yourself and your fellow human beings.
[QUOTE=Ottomann;32158497]Speculation.[/QUOTE] No actually it's not speculation. Companies like FED-EX frequently use the USPS to deliver goods to areas they normally don't cover (rural areas mostly).
[QUOTE=s0beit;32158470]So what you're actually saying is, we have to take money from people against their will at the expense of others, because.... ? You're talking about taxing people who may never have children, which is particularly vicious since they have absolutely no obligation, not even indirectly to the school system. Or those who choose to school their children in different ways. They'll never use it, they never want to use it, yet they have to pay for it because why?[/QUOTE] Even ignoring your extreme mischaracterization, everyone needs to pay taxes to public schools because education is a human right and must be guaranteed.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32158572]Even ignoring your extreme mischaracterization, everyone needs to pay taxes to public schools because education is a human right and must be guaranteed.[/QUOTE] Copping out behind the "it's a right" slogan? Let's not dive back into this, it's a service. You define rights as something the government provides, saying the government must provide it is redundant. It's a complete non-argument.
[QUOTE=s0beit;32158582]Copping out behind the "it's a right" slogan? Let's not dive back into this, it's a service. You define rights as something the government provides, saying the government must provide it is redundant. It's a complete non-argument.[/QUOTE] So people shouldn't be guaranteed education?
[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;32158562]No actually it's not speculation. Companies like FED-EX frequently use the USPS to deliver goods to areas they normally don't cover (rural areas mostly).[/QUOTE] Then if the USPS went under that would leave room for companies to expand and be able to cover them.
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