Bernie Sanders is the Most Electable Candidate in Either Party - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Revenge282;49246553]I argued this a while ago in a thread about automated cars and the effect on truckers. I do not understand why automation is viewed as a bad thing? Efficiency has never been a bad thing, nor has it every been a limitation. So why should we use efficiency as an artificial limit now? If you can wash and dry dishes and do so solely automated, then cut the dishwasher boys, they don't have value anymore. Same thing with public transport drivers in the near future. Eventually bankers, clerks, and almost everyone else whose job involves them providing information to a machine.[/QUOTE] The thing is that in our capitalistic system we have no support system for people who simply can't find work, When we finally get to a point in which human workers are largely obsolete, then so will our economic system, and we don't have a replacement for our current economic system ready, so eventually in the next 20-60 years we're going to have to figure out how our society will work when people simply don't.

[QUOTE=Incoming.;49246411]15 dollars an hour is simply too much, if I were an employer I would seriously consider either reducing hours, reducing amount of workers, or switching to more automated methods.[/quote] odds are, if you were an employer, paying your employees $7.25/h or $10/h or $15/h would all be a fucking pittance in comparison to what you make these people can spare the money [editline]4th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Zero-Point;49246490]All jobs will be replaced with robots in time, what then? How do you determine the "value" of a human being? Better yet, WHY are you determining the "value" of a human being?[/QUOTE] also this, there is a serious lack of thought going on right now on the imminent automation of service industry we're really going to need to start thinking about how to organize our lives in a post-work society, because it's gonna happen pretty fuckin soon

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49246610]The thing is that in our capitalistic system we have no support system for people who simply can't find work, When we finally get to a point in which human workers are largely obsolete, then so will our economic system, and we don't have a replacement for our current economic system ready, so eventually in the next 20-60 years we're going to have to figure out how our society will work when people simply don't.[/QUOTE] Welcome to the future of living wages, single-payer healthcare system, and larger corporation taxes.

[QUOTE=Revenge282;49246553]I argued this a while ago in a thread about automated cars and the effect on truckers. I do not understand why automation is viewed as a bad thing? Efficiency has never been a bad thing, nor has it every been a limitation. So why should we use efficiency as an artificial limit now? If you can wash and dry dishes and do so solely automated, then cut the dishwasher boys, they don't have value anymore. Same thing with public transport drivers in the near future. Eventually bankers, clerks, and almost everyone else whose job involves them providing information to a machine.[/QUOTE] Oh I agree but then you have hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of unemployeed in the wake of the lack of jobs so who's actually buying the things that automation produces? You have to ask yourself "How do people buy things?" to answer that question. [editline]4th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Revenge282;49246681]Welcome to the future of living wages, single-payer healthcare system, and larger corporation taxes.[/QUOTE] you're dreaming if you think the corporations will bear the brunt of that cost.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49246697]Oh I agree but then you have hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of unemployeed in the wake of the lack of jobs so who's actually buying the things that automation produces? You have to ask yourself "How do people buy things?" to answer that question.[/QUOTE] in a post-scarcity economy, simply put, they wouldn't have to anymore

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;49246611]odds are, if you were an employer, paying your employees $7.25/h or $10/h or $15/h would all be a fucking pittance in comparison to what you make these people can spare the money[/QUOTE] Thats a very broad and subjective statement. Being an employer means different things to different people, but to me its always striking the balance between efficient production/service and wages scaled to the skill sets required. If you pay someone 15 dollars an hour to stack dishes in a sink, some basic math can show just how vast the difference can be. At 360 days a year for a 7 hour shift, that translates to 37,800 dollars, as opposed to a more manageable 10.10, thats 25,452. Round off to 25,500 for the sake of discussion. If you're in a low margin market, or a small business owner, that can be life or death. Minimum wages need to be increased steadily, not just a one shot mega-stimulus that might look good for the first paycheck, until you realize the bookstore you worked for is jumping ship early or firing people who stock shelves.

[QUOTE=Revenge282;49246681]Welcome to the future of living wages, single-payer healthcare system, and larger corporation taxes.[/QUOTE] You're delusional if you think we're at that point yet. The transition is going to be very, VERY interesting, though.

Trump has only been going up in polls in light of these extremist attacks.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49246938]You're delusional if you think we're at that point yet. The transition is going to be very, VERY interesting, though.[/QUOTE] I don't think it will ever happen, at least the "living wage" part. There will always be jobs that simply don't pay a living wage, no matter what the minimum is. Inflation is a thing, and some jobs simply don't hold up on their own. larger corporate taxes arguably lead to the export of company HQ's from the U.S. Burger King bought Tim Hortons to relocate to Canada for tax reasons. Lowering corporate tax at the same time as loopholes are closed is the most reasonable way to compromise both the interests of companies [that [I]do[/I], in fact matter] and tax revenue.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49246938]You're delusional if you think we're at that point yet. The transition is going to be very, VERY interesting, though.[/QUOTE] Oh we are no where near that point yet. Maybe in our lifetime we will see road transport become fully automated, but there's no way we're going to turn into some Wally movie-esque world in the foreseeable future. But those things I mentioned are going to be the future if we keep advancing. When in the future is the variable. [editline]4th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Incoming.;49247118]I don't think it will ever happen, at least the "living wage" part. There will always be jobs that simply don't pay a living wage, no matter what the minimum is. Inflation is a thing, and some jobs simply don't hold up on their own. larger corporate taxes arguably lead to the export of company HQ's from the U.S. Burger King bought Tim Hortons to relocate to Canada for tax reasons. Lowering corporate tax at the same time as loopholes are closed is the most reasonable way to compromise both the interests of companies [that [I]do[/I], in fact matter] and tax revenue.[/QUOTE] Living wage is not a minimum wage from a job. It is essentially government pay to citizens to ensure that even if unemployed, they have a means of living. Things may end up moving from the US, but we also have the advantage of being R&D/service industries. Not all of the corporations can just up and move overseas. My idea wasn't solely increasing corporation taxes, but making sure we aren't giving them breaks. In a post-work society, where else would the revenue come from? Surely not income tax on individuals.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;49246342]I don't expect for someone working at McDonalds to be able to support themselves, a home, and a family. They should be able to afford an apartment for themselves, or live with room-mates to help support the costs to increase the available cash each room mate has available. McDonalds is not something that should be considered anything beyond "surviving" in terms of your career, it's the beginning, it lets you get on your feet until you can find something better or pay for your housing while you go to college (Payed for by family or loans/scholarships). The concept that someone working a shit job at McDonalds should be able to afford housing for a family, on that wage alone, is ludicrously off base, it's people who work at McDonalds and are TRYING to support a family off that alone that have to take money out of government welfare programs, because it's unreasonable for everyone working that job to be payed enough to do that.[/QUOTE] McDonald's will just automate all there shit. Then I won't have to worry about funky stuff happening to my food when I order :)

[QUOTE=Incoming.;49246411]15 dollars an hour is simply too much, if I were an employer I would seriously consider either reducing hours, reducing amount of workers, or switching to more automated methods. I'll even agree to 10.10 or 12.12, but 15 dollars an hour is like punching small-medium size businesses in the face, this is particularly the case for[URL="http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/03/16/we-are-seeing-the-effects-of-seattles-15-an-hour-minimum-wage/"] restaurants[/URL]. This also gives larger companies the motive to produce [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/capitalbusiness/minimum-wage-offensive-could-speed-arrival-of-robot-powered-restaurants/2015/08/16/35f284ea-3f6f-11e5-8d45-d815146f81fa_story.html"]robot replacements[/URL] for more and more advanced jobs.[/QUOTE] guess what, they already do that at 7$/hour. Mcdonnalds has been sued several times for their time management software which screws about worker schedules to work them within an inch of qualifying for benefits, but keeps them perminently below that threshold. Walmart is even worse, they will never give you enough hours, and then the ones they do will be weird missmatching times not giving anyone any stability also you can't replace every worker with robots, mcdonnalds has pretty much eliminated all the staff they can without impacting their productivity [editline]4th December 2015[/editline] you miss the point of minimum wage, its not to support families, its simply the minimum threshold for someone to support themselves without federal welfare programs, literally the lowest pay you can receive while being independent, but todays pay is not that, and its simply an elaborate corporate welfare scheme that makes them tons of money while keeping their employees on benefits to keep them alive

[QUOTE=Sableye;49248253]guess what, they already do that at 7$/hour. Mcdonnalds has been sued several times for their time management software which screws about worker schedules to work them within an inch of qualifying for benefits, but keeps them perminently below that threshold. Walmart is even worse, they will never give you enough hours, and then the ones they do will be weird missmatching times not giving anyone any stability also you can't replace every worker with robots, mcdonnalds has pretty much eliminated all the staff they can without impacting their productivity[/QUOTE] Sounds good to me sometimes technology is easier to deal with than disgruntled employees lol. Here's an idea get a job that robots can't be used in. I'm in health care and its not something a robot will replace in my lifetime.

it's more likely than you think

[QUOTE=apierce1289;49248313]Sounds good to me sometimes technology is easier to deal with than disgruntled employees lol. Here's an idea get a job that robots can't be used in. I'm in health care and its not something a robot will replace in my lifetime.[/QUOTE] Once we make an ai smarter than ourselves it will self improve and our technology will grow exponentially. This is predicated to be in our lifetime.

Free college and weed legalization is like the only reason to vote for this guy. And that's completely fine, fuck the war on drugs.

[QUOTE=Sableye;49248253]guess what, they already do that at 7$/hour. Mcdonnalds has been sued several times for their time management software which screws about worker schedules to work them within an inch of qualifying for benefits, but keeps them perminently below that threshold. Walmart is even worse, they will never give you enough hours, and then the ones they do will be weird missmatching times not giving anyone any stability also you can't replace every worker with robots, mcdonnalds has pretty much eliminated all the staff they can without impacting their productivity [editline]4th December 2015[/editline] you miss the point of minimum wage, its not to support families, its simply the minimum threshold for someone to support themselves without federal welfare programs, literally the lowest pay you can receive while being independent, but todays pay is not that, and its simply an elaborate corporate welfare scheme that makes them tons of money while keeping their employees on benefits to keep them alive[/QUOTE] As someone who works at Walmart, that isn't entirely true. I've worked exactly 40 hours every week for the past few months, and the vast majority of those hours were 8am to 5pm with a one hour lunch break. I'll admit that I make barely enough to survive, but I'm not on welfare and do have health insurance from work.

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;49246436]Friend of mine works at Wal-Mart, he tells me that they have a team of lawyers ready to fly to any Wal-Mart at any given time in the event that anyone dare mutters the word "unionize".[/QUOTE] Walmart hired Lockheed Martin's cyberintel division to help them "monitor" their workers suspected of trying to unionize.

[QUOTE=Sableye;49248253]also you can't replace every worker with robots, mcdonnalds has pretty much eliminated all the staff they can without impacting their productivity[/QUOTE] You underestimate the sheer drive corporations have to "cut the fat", and rightfully so. It is within their interests to maximize profits, even private companies do this. Let me show you a famous example. Lego in 1960 [IMG]http://www.miniland.nl/Historie/LEGO%20gebouwen/assembly_1953_641.jpg[/IMG] Lego in 2015 [IMG]http://cache.lego.com/r/www/r/aboutus/-/media/about%20us/media%20assets%20library/events/2014/thumbs/550_lego_hu_factory_inside.jpg?l.r2=937833648[/IMG] [I]Not too many people, huh?[/I] Automation will happen regardless of what you do, but irresponsibly raising the minimum wage from 7 to 15 in one shot is not how you do it. Maybe in a few years we can reach 15, but I have no confidence in the idea that going right to 15 dollars is a good idea.

[QUOTE=Incoming.;49248919]You underestimate the sheer drive corporations have to "cut the fat", and rightfully so. It is within their interests to maximize profits, even private companies do this. Let me show you a famous example. Lego in 1960 [IMG]http://www.miniland.nl/Historie/LEGO%20gebouwen/assembly_1953_641.jpg[/IMG] Lego in 2015 [IMG]http://cache.lego.com/r/www/r/aboutus/-/media/about%20us/media%20assets%20library/events/2014/thumbs/550_lego_hu_factory_inside.jpg?l.r2=937833648[/IMG] [I]Not too many people, huh?[/I] Automation will happen regardless of what you do, but irresponsibly raising the minimum wage from 7 to 15 in one shot is not how you do it. Maybe in a few years we can reach 15, but I have no confidence in the idea that going right to 15 dollars is a good idea.[/QUOTE] Unemployment rates for norway, sweden, denmark and finland. Working hours for each country compared to the rest of Europe. Productivity per worker for each country. You guys are just looking at the industry sector. The tertiary sector of the economy -by far the largest and most important of the developed world- can't just be easily replaced by robots or automatization. Plus people in each country aren't retarded. Sweden has one of the most unionized % of the world and so workers push for a decent wage. Unlike US were....well....you know, people give a fuck about unions.

When did FP get overrun by a bunch of liberal faggots? [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Gimmick" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=hideki tojo;49249011]When did FP get overrun by a bunch of liberal faggots?[/QUOTE] 2005

[QUOTE=hideki tojo;49249011]When did FP get overrun by a bunch of liberal faggots?[/QUOTE] A most excellent first post.

[QUOTE=_Kent_;49249227]A most excellent first post.[/QUOTE] I've been around since 2004 on and off on many different accounts.

[QUOTE=_Kent_;49249227]A most excellent first post.[/QUOTE] He's right though

[QUOTE=Incoming.;49248919]You underestimate the sheer drive corporations have to "cut the fat", and rightfully so. It is within their interests to maximize profits, even private companies do this. Let me show you a famous example. Lego in 1960 [IMG]http://www.miniland.nl/Historie/LEGO%20gebouwen/assembly_1953_641.jpg[/IMG] Lego in 2015 [IMG]http://cache.lego.com/r/www/r/aboutus/-/media/about%20us/media%20assets%20library/events/2014/thumbs/550_lego_hu_factory_inside.jpg?l.r2=937833648[/IMG] [I]Not too many people, huh?[/I] Automation will happen regardless of what you do, but irresponsibly raising the minimum wage from 7 to 15 in one shot is not how you do it. Maybe in a few years we can reach 15, but I have no confidence in the idea that going right to 15 dollars is a good idea.[/QUOTE] No one said we were gonna raise it in on shot. Sanders wants to raise it to $15 by 2020 and then index it.

[QUOTE=bisousbisous;49249354]He's right though[/QUOTE] Not even fucking remotely

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49249428]Not even fucking remotely[/QUOTE] Then why have I literally seen ZERO posts supporting Trump? And don't tell me it's because everyone in the world hates him, because his polls have only been going up and his rallies are always filled.

[QUOTE=bisousbisous;49249489]Then why have I literally seen ZERO posts supporting Trump? And don't tell me it's because everyone in the world hates him, because his polls have only been going up and his rallies are always filled.[/QUOTE] 1) because the world doesn't revolve around america 2) most non americans think he's a horrible, horrible option 3) because there's not a lot of legitimate reasons that aren't readily able to be countered.

[QUOTE=hideki tojo;49249011]When did FP get overrun by a bunch of liberal faggots?[/QUOTE] July 15, 2007