• Michigan cop shot 5 times tells off judge
    336 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Lankist;35798867]You folks can disagree all you want. The man plead guilty on all charges. That is nothing to scoff at. You're all being vindictive, and it is not in the judge's purview to be vindictive.[/QUOTE] Come back and say that when the person who shot you up gets off light. The cop has every right to be pissed.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35798891]Pleading guilty on all fucking charges earns a certain degree of respect from the justice system.[/QUOTE] Not really, how is the fucker going to plead not guilty?
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;35798880]Not related but I'm beginning to wonder what sort of arguments one might make if he shot someone 5 times without intent to kill.[/QUOTE] There is no shooting someone without the intent to kill. In American law, if you fire a gun at someone, it is presumed that you intended to kill them. A firearm is an offensive weapon in the eyes of the court, not a defensive measure.
exactly what will putting him away for more years do? it's not like he'll be rehabilitated. personally i don't think that the justice system should award sentences based on some bullshit concept of leniency. there's no point.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35798879]Irrelevant. The cop didn't die.[/QUOTE] Don't avoid my question. [quote]You all claim that prison is to rehab a person, please tell me the difference of a person that tries to kill someone and succeeds, and someone that fails.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;35798901]Not really, how is the fucker going to plead not guilty?[/QUOTE] Are you stupid? People plead not guilty on open-and-shut cases ALL OF THE TIME, and it turns them into gruelingly long cases, the whole time of which that person can end up out on bail.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35798891]Pleading guilty on all fucking charges earns a certain degree of respect from the justice system.[/QUOTE] Oh good. He plead guilty to obvious charges. I guess we should go easy on him, never mind the fact that he attempted to rob and murder a man.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35798843]And yet he is. We do not sentence people for what MIGHT have happened. We sentence people for what DID happen. And what happened is a man was injured, survived, and the assailant plead guilty on all charges. The cop (and the internet, evidently) is just being his typical vindictive-cop self, in complete defiance to how we handle cases once the cuffs come off and the judge comes in.[/QUOTE] If we do not sentence people for what may have happened, why do we charge for attempted murder?
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;35798915]Don't avoid my question.[/QUOTE] The difference is that nobody is dead.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35798909]exactly what will putting him away for more years do? it's not like he'll be rehabilitated. personally i don't think that the justice system should award sentences based on some bullshit concept of leniency. there's no point.[/QUOTE] Less time for him to be back out on the street.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;35798922]If we do not sentence people for what may have happened, why do we charge for attempted murder?[/QUOTE] Because what [I]did[/I] happen is that someone [I]attempted[/I] murder, and failed. [editline]2nd May 2012[/editline] ITT Facepunch thinks it knows more about the justice system than someone who is in the justice system.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35798843]And yet he is. We do not sentence people for what MIGHT have happened. We sentence people for what DID happen. And what happened is a man was injured, survived, and the assailant plead guilty on all charges. The cop (and the internet, evidently) is just being his typical vindictive-cop self, in complete defiance to how we handle cases once the cuffs come off and the judge comes in.[/QUOTE] Fucking seriously man So you're saying that attempted crimes shouldn't be crimes if nothing actually happened? [QUOTE=Lankist;35798933]Because what [I]did[/I] happen is that someone [I]attempted[/I] murder, and failed.[/QUOTE] oh thank god
[QUOTE=Lankist;35798920]Are you stupid? People plead not guilty on open-and-shut cases ALL OF THE TIME, and it turns them into gruelingly long cases, the whole time of which that person can end up out on bail.[/QUOTE] Are you stupid? [quote]You all claim that prison is to rehab a person, please tell me the difference of a person that tries to kill someone and succeeds, and someone that fails.[/quote] What the fuck answer can you give me for that? If someone tries to kill someone regardless of success or failure their intentions are the same and should be treated so.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35798933]Because what [I]did[/I] happen is that someone [I]attempted[/I] murder, and failed. [editline]2nd May 2012[/editline][/QUOTE] Still doesn't quite make sense to me. [QUOTE=Lankist;35798933]ITT Facepunch thinks it knows more about the justice system than someone who is in the justice system.[/QUOTE] ITT Only Lankist is allowed to have an opinion of the justice system.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;35798929]Less time for him to be back out on the street.[/QUOTE] what's wrong with him being back on the street? unless you wanna start convicting people for what they might do, the goal shouldn't be to keep them off the street.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35798891]Pleading guilty on all fucking charges earns a certain degree of respect from the justice system.[/QUOTE] are you retarded seriously? The guy was shot three fucking times, he was detained and taken away, to then say 'nope wasn't me' would be absolute insanity, he was most likely advised by his lawyer to plead guilty so he would get a lower sentence. The scumbag deserves no respect from anyone, but apparently does from you.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35798777]Uhm no it isn't. Not for a crime in which one person was injured and no one died. It's not lenient at all. It's the [I]minimum[/I] term. That doesn't mean he will be released on the 14-year mark. It's 14-25 years. That means the system won't even [I]consider[/I] the convict for 14 years. And only [I]after[/I] 14 years will they ever bother to even glance at his case file again. The man plead guilty. We reward those who plead guilty and expedite the process by giving them lower minimum sentences than usual. If we did not, then everyone would plead not guilty, and every case would drag on for years. This is just a cop with a grudge, to which I have absolutely no sympathy for considering how dangerous a cop with a grudge has historically been.[/QUOTE] So how about we shoot you 5 times, destroy your left femur, ruin the rest of your life, and THEN see if you don't hold a grudge?
[QUOTE=Last or First;35798941]Fucking seriously man So you're saying that attempted crimes shouldn't be crimes if nothing actually happened?[/QUOTE] Attempted crimes have their own attempted versions with their own sets of charges. We do [I]not[/I] try people based upon could-have-would-have. We charge people based upon what actually happened. [editline]2nd May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=RO;35798977]are you retarded seriously? The guy was shot three fucking times, he was detained and taken away, to then say 'nope wasn't me' would be absolute insanity, he was most likely advised by his lawyer to plead guilty so he would get a lower sentence. The scumbag deserves no respect from anyone, but apparently does from you.[/QUOTE] It fucking happens on a daily basis, pal, and it costs a shitload of time, money and generally degrades the effectiveness of the justice system.
[QUOTE=Last or First;35798941] So you're saying that attempted crimes shouldn't be crimes if nothing actually happened?[/QUOTE] what post did you read lol
[QUOTE=oldeskoolfan;35798980]So how about we shoot you 5 times, destroy your left femur, ruin the rest of your life, and THEN see if you don't hold a grudge?[/QUOTE] Well I wouldn't be involved in that case because I have a personal stake and a conflict of interest. I'd be pissed as hell. I also wouldn't get a say in the verdict for that very reason. There's a fucking reason why the victim doesn't get to lay down the charges. Our justice system is impartial.
25 years is kind of a long time. What do they mean 14-25 years anyway? Can't they make up their mind?
[QUOTE=RO;35798977]The guy was shot three fucking times, he was detained and taken away, to then say 'nope wasn't me' would be absolute insanity, he was most likely advised by his lawyer to plead guilty so he would get a lower sentence.[/QUOTE] [quote]Proctor's mother, Shannon Proctor, said her son is "a wonderful person, a hard worker and a great father." "He's innocent, but he pleaded guilty because he knew nobody would take his word over a police officer," she said.[/quote] The mother is a deluded idiot. [quote]I heard God's voice tell me, 'You won't be hurt.'" ... he shot the officer five times in the legs and side. His left femur was shattered.[/quote] welp, so much for "you won't be hurt"
[QUOTE=Lankist;35798985] It fucking happens on a daily basis, pal, and it costs a shitload of time, money and generally degrades the effectiveness of the justice system.[/QUOTE] But regardless of time and money, your point was that he deserves respect for pleading guilty. He pleaded guilty because he was cornered and had no choice, it wasn't brave or respectable like you seem to think it is.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35798985]Attempted crimes have their own attempted versions with their own sets of charges. We do [I]not[/I] try people based upon could-have-would-have. We charge people based upon what actually happened. [editline]2nd May 2012[/editline] It fucking happens on a daily basis, pal, and it costs a shitload of time, money and generally degrades the effectiveness of the justice system.[/QUOTE] If you try to kill someone, and succeed. You are a danger to other people and have shown the will to kill another human being therefor should be locked up for a good while. If you try to kill someone, and fail. You are [I]still[/I] a danger to other people and have shown the will to kill another human being therefor should be locked up for a while. How do you not understand this?
[QUOTE=RO;35799024]But regardless of time and money, your point was that he deserves respect for pleading guilty. He pleaded guilty because he was cornered and had no choice, it wasn't brave or respectable like you seem to think it is.[/QUOTE] He does, because very few people in our justice system own up to their crimes and accept their sentencing without challenge. He accepted his charges without question. He did not fight tooth-and-nail against them. That earns something in our system. [editline]2nd May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Jetblack357;35799030]If you try to kill someone, and succeed. You are a danger to other people and have shown the will to kill another human being therefor should be locked up for a good while. If you try to kill someone, and fail. You are [I]still[/I] a danger to other people and have shown the will to kill another human being therefor should be locked up for a while. How do you not understand this?[/QUOTE] For the last goddamn time: We are NOT a preventative justice system. We do NOT charge people based upon speculation and "might haves". We are a reconciliatory justice system. We charge people solely upon what DID happen. There are too many fucking reasons for me to name why we don't play that kind of game in our courts.
[QUOTE=RO;35799024]But regardless of time and money, your point was that he deserves respect for pleading guilty. He pleaded guilty because he was cornered and had no choice, it wasn't brave or respectable like you seem to think it is.[/QUOTE] oh my god please learn to read english. he said that pleading guilty to charges earns respect towards your charge. do you know what the word respect means? it doesn't mean just one thing: [quote]deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something considered to have certain rights or privileges; proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgment: respect for a suspect's right to counsel; to show respect for the flag; respect for the elderly.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Lankist;35799011]Well I wouldn't be involved in that case because I have a personal stake and a conflict of interest. I'd be pissed as hell. I also wouldn't get a say in the verdict for that very reason. [/QUOTE] You say you would be pissed as hell yet you just said you had no sympathy for the cop because he is "holding a grudge".
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;35799030]If you try to kill someone, and succeed. You are a danger to other people and have shown the will to kill another human being therefor should be locked up for a good while. If you try to kill someone, and fail. You are [I]still[/I] a danger to other people and have shown the will to kill another human being therefor should be locked up for a while. How do you not understand this?[/QUOTE] this doesn't have anything to do with the subject.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35799038]He does, because very few people in our justice system own up to their crimes and accept their sentencing without challenge. He accepted his charges without question. He did not fight tooth-and-nail against them. That earns something in our system. [editline]2nd May 2012[/editline] For the last goddamn time: We are NOT a preventative justice system. We do NOT charge people based upon speculation and "might haves". We are a reconciliatory justice system. We charge people solely upon what DID happen. There are too many fucking reasons for me to name why we don't play that kind of game in our courts.[/QUOTE] Murder is a whole other thing from fucking robbery and such. It is seriously trying to end someones life, my point remains valid. If we were to play this game with other crimes I can see the problem. But killing people is far too dangerous a situation to ignore and treat with a slap on the wrist.
Having a reduced sentence for attempted crimes sort of sounds like a "no harm, no foul" sort of thing, but I guess it makes sense if you admit that we have a retribution-based justice system, and you're punishing them based on the damage done.
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