• Michigan cop shot 5 times tells off judge
    336 replies, posted
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;35799085]You say you would be pissed as hell yet you just said you had no sympathy for the cop because he is "holding a grudge".[/QUOTE] That's because I'm an impartial observer. I am unbiased toward this case and I recognize the cop gets no fucking say in the verdict. Same as I would have no say if I were the victim. That's how justice works. You aren't going to get anywhere by appealing to my emotions because as soon as my emotions start affecting my judgement, I am no longer a reliable witness to events.
[QUOTE=areolop;35798692]Are you fucking kidding me? Have you ever read a state [url=https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.066]statute[/url] before? Police do not murder people. They protect themselves and others from being murdered. PS: They get paid leave because its their job to protect. And, they still have to be cleared of criminal charges[/QUOTE] Yea, tell that to the people murdered by police. Oh wait, you can't, because they are dead. [url]http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/seattle-officer-resigns-over-shooting-of-woodcarve/nDNdB/[/url] Oh big deal, a fucking resignation for murder. Anyone else would have been spending life in prison, but this officer just lost his job.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35799106]That's because I'm an impartial observer. I am unbiased toward this case and I recognize the cop gets no fucking say in the verdict. Same as I would have no say if I were the victim. That's how justice works.[/QUOTE] But you've shown bias towards the convicted.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;35799099]Murder is a whole other thing from fucking robbery and such. It is seriously trying to end someones life, my point remains valid. If we were to play this game with other crimes I can see the problem. But killing people is far too dangerous a situation to ignore and treat with a slap on the wrist.[/QUOTE] 14 years isn't a slap on the wrist. Go and live in prison for 14 years and tell me it was nothing.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;35799099]Murder is a whole other thing from fucking robbery and such. It is seriously trying to end someones life, my point remains valid. If we were to play this game with other crimes I can see the problem. But killing people is far too dangerous a situation to ignore and treat with a slap on the wrist.[/QUOTE] Doesn't change the fucking facts. Our justice system does not bend to the whims of victims. It is cold, methodical and emotionless. It doesn't matter WHAT happened. Our system sees is by the same rules as anything else.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35798985]Attempted crimes have their own attempted versions with their own sets of charges. We do [I]not[/I] try people based upon could-have-would-have. We charge people based upon what actually happened.[/QUOTE] Again: thank goodness. I was worried you were saying that failed crimes shouldn't be crimes or some shit like that. Maybe I have too little faith in humanity. [QUOTE=yawmwen;35798599]Frankly, still not as bad as the people who are murdered by police and the police get paid leave for it.[/QUOTE] "Sure, this is bad, but some cops are assholes" Please don't tell me you think other cops being assholes somehow lessens the severity of this case. I mean, I agree that cops only getting paid leave when they're totally corrupt is complete bullshit, but I'm not sure what that has to do with this.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;35799134]14 years isn't a slap on the wrist. Go and live in prison for 14 years and tell me it was nothing.[/QUOTE] Compared to ending a life, it is. Don't fucking bring up that he didn't end a life. He still tried and is still every bit a hazard as a real murderer.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;35799123]But you've shown bias towards the convicted.[/QUOTE] No, I've shown mistrust toward the veracity of the victim's judgement, and respect for the convict's decision to plead guilty. Not a bias. An observation.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;35799152]Compared to ending a life, it is. Don't fucking bring up that he didn't end a life. He still tried and is still every bit a hazard as a real murderer.[/QUOTE] Nobody fucking died. He could have killed a bystander, or a bullet could have grazed a gas pump and caught the whole fucking place on fire. We didn't charge him for that, either.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35799069]oh my god please learn to read english. he said that pleading guilty to charges earns respect towards your charge. do you know what the word respect means? it doesn't mean just one thing:[/QUOTE] but he did mean it as respectfulness, hence saying 'HE DOES' deserve respect; [QUOTE=Lankist;35799038]He does, because very few people in our justice system own up to their crimes and accept their sentencing without challenge. He accepted his charges without question. He did not fight tooth-and-nail against them. That earns something in our system.[/quote] But he was completely cornered, the evidence would have been overwhelming and the trial over and done with quickly. He knew that he would get a shorter sentence for just pleading guilty, because it was inevitable that he would be found guilty anyway. It even says in the article that the guy tried to shoot him again afterwards before trying to run away and that the guys friends tried to shoot the cop too, that doesn't seem like the kind of person that is suddenly remorseful after his actions, it sounds like someone trying to duck a lengthier jail sentence.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35799106]That's because I'm an impartial observer. I am unbiased toward this case and I recognize the cop gets no fucking say in the verdict. Same as I would have no say if I were the victim. That's how justice works.[/QUOTE] You would still have an opinion about the verdict, which is what this cop has. No one in this thread has suggested that the cop should have a say in the verdict. They are also calling bullshit on the verdict.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;35799099] But killing people is far too dangerous a situation to ignore and treat with a slap on the wrist.[/QUOTE] lol 14-25 years is not a slap on the wrist. that's more than the minimum sentence for attempted murder
[QUOTE=RO;35799162]but he did mean it as respectfulness, hence saying 'HE DOES' deserve respect; But he was completely cornered, the evidence would have been overwhelming and the trial over and done with quickly. He knew that he would get a shorter sentence for just pleading guilty, because it was inevitable that he would be found guilty anyway. It even says in the article that the guy tried to shoot him again afterwards before trying to run away and that the guys friends tried to shoot the cop too, that doesn't seem like the kind of person that is suddenly remorseful after his actions, it sounds like someone trying to duck a lengthier jail sentence.[/QUOTE] It doesn't MATTER that he was cornered. People plead not-guilty when they're cornered all of the fucking time. MOST cases plea not-guilty, completely regardless of how much evidence is to be presented.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35799160]Nobody fucking died. He could have killed a bystander, or a bullet could have grazed a gas pump and caught the whole fucking place on fire. We didn't charge him for that, either.[/QUOTE] Those would have been accidental, his intention was to kill the cop.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;35799152]Compared to ending a life, it is. Don't fucking bring up that he didn't end a life. He still tried and is still every bit a hazard as a real murderer.[/QUOTE] So lock him up for up to a quarter of his life. That seems reasonable. [QUOTE=Last or First;35799150] "Sure, this is bad, but some cops are assholes" Please don't tell me you think other cops being assholes somehow lessens the severity of this case. I mean, I agree that cops only getting paid leave when they're totally corrupt is complete bullshit, but I'm not sure what that has to do with this.[/QUOTE] It should put the situation in perspective a bit. I'm not saying this guy should get off, only that if the roles were switched the assailant would have gotten off.
[QUOTE=RO;35799162]He knew that he would get a shorter sentence for just pleading guilty [/QUOTE] [quote]"There was no plea deal; (Proctor) just pleaded guilty to what we charged him with," Trzcinski said. [/quote] please please please read the OP!
[QUOTE=thisispain;35799170]lol 14-25 years is not a slap on the wrist. that's more than the minimum sentence for attempted murder[/QUOTE] It's more than the minimum sentence for assault with a deadly weapon, too.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35799160]Nobody fucking died. He could have killed a bystander, or a bullet could have grazed a gas pump and caught the whole fucking place on fire. We didn't charge him for that, either.[/QUOTE] Because he wasn't fucking attempting to blow up a gas station, if he was then yes he could be charged for attempted murder. He was trying to kill the police officer, why is that concept hard to understand.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;35799187]Those would have been accidental, his intention was to kill the cop.[/QUOTE] yes and he was convicted for his intention.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35799170]lol 14-25 years is not a slap on the wrist. that's more than the minimum sentence for attempted murder[/QUOTE] Attempted murder, attempted robbery, the damage done by shooting the guy 5 times as well which was 2 counts of assault, that's all rolled into one. [QUOTE=thisispain;35799200]please please please read the OP![/QUOTE] I'd be pretty sure he would have spoken to a lawyer before stating his plea, regardless of any deals inside the court room
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;35799187]Those would have been accidental, his intention was to kill the cop.[/QUOTE] And he got charged with [I]intent[/I] to kill. Which is very different from second degree murder. How the fuck aren't you getting this?
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;35799211] He was trying to kill the police officer, why is that concept hard to understand.[/QUOTE] lankist DOES understand that concept, it's just that the justice system disagrees with you.
[QUOTE=RO;35799215]Attempted murder, attempted robbery, the damage done by shooting the guy 5 times as well which was 2 counts of assault, that's all rolled into one.[/QUOTE] And this is about what those charges typically look like, with perhaps a mildly lower minimum sentencing before parole hearings can enter the equation. [editline]2nd May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;35799232]lankist DOES understand that concept, it's just that the justice system disagrees with you.[/QUOTE] Do I need to mention what I do for a living again or do you think people will just catch on by this point?
...So the cop "earned" the shooter a smaller sentence by pulling the gun away from his temple? Sometimes legal systems can really wind up with weird-ass conclusions.
[QUOTE=RO;35799215]Attempted murder, attempted robbery, the damage done by shooting the guy 5 times as well which was 2 counts of assault, that's all rolled into one.[/QUOTE] there's no rolled into one. he pleaded guilty to two counts of assault with intent to commit murder.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35799236]And this is about what those charges typically look like, with perhaps a mildly lower minimum sentencing before parole hearings can enter the equation. [editline]2nd May 2012[/editline] Do I need to mention what I do for a living again or do you think people will just catch on by this point?[/QUOTE] What you do for a living and what the laws says is regardless to what everyone is saying, the point is is that you should get locked up for as long as murder even if it was attempted and not successful, especially in a case like this where it was almost sheer luck that the officer wasn't killed.
And you're completely qualified in terms of legal expertise to completely understand the ramifications of such a broad alteration to our judicial process. You do realize that matching attempted murder charges to murder charges would make criminals say "you know what, fuck it, I'm going away for the same amount of time anyway, might as well get rid of the witness!" We charge attempted murder less than actual murder because no fucking murder took place, pal. Matching the sentences would encourage murder once a crime had already been committed and would completely devalue the crime of murder as it stands.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35799319]And you're completely qualified in terms of legal expertise to completely understand the ramifications of such a broad alteration to our judicial process.[/QUOTE] cool, provide some documentation to back up your claims.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35799232]lankist DOES understand that concept, it's just that the justice system disagrees with you.[/QUOTE] The person Lankist was responding too suggested that 14 years in prison in comparison to the ending of a life is not a long term. Lankist responded by using the example of blowing up the gas station which didn't make any sense and I responding by saying that there is a difference in an accident and a purposeful action. I wasn't arguing anything to do with law.
[QUOTE=Craig Willmore;35799344]cool, provide some documentation to back up your claims.[/QUOTE] oh like you even know what legal expertise documentation looks like
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