• Battle for Aleppo has ended in 'uncompromising military victory': UN
    154 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51545383]Most refugees won't want to go back While most natives of whatever country they're in will want them to While most governments of those countries will probably come up with half-assed measures in an attempt to make both sides happy[/QUOTE] Not to be a dick, but Why does it matter what the refugees want if their home is safe again? They're refugees, not immigrants. If I invited a friend to crash at my couch while he was looking for a job and he found a job, I'd expect him to leave.
[QUOTE=Dave_Parker;51546910]Homes in the Middle East aren't quite what they are in our countries. [B]That said, building a house is really not that difficult, especially when you don't have much regulations to mind.[/B] The larger challenges lie in rebuilding power grids and water supplies, but there will probably be western aid for that. Also, I wonder how many people will confess to not actually being Syrian when we start sending people back. Regardless, it will be a few years before people actually start going back if they don't want to. Legal cases like these can be drawn out for a long damn time.[/QUOTE] You do know why we have our regulations here, right? I'm all for them going back home but it wouldn't be a good idea to force them to set themselves up as Haiti v2: the disaster-erening
[QUOTE=phygon;51546903]Not to be a dick, but Why does it matter what the refugees want if their home is safe again? They're refugees, not immigrants. If I invited a friend to crash at my couch while he was looking for a job and he found a job, I'd expect him to leave.[/QUOTE] your comparison would make more sense if he found a job as a cashier at a recently demolished mcdonald's [editline]18th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Jordax;51546889]Oh come on, the Germans said a few years ago that those refugees are future doctors, engineers and astronauts. If they can't get a job in Germany, they might as well try to rebuild their own country if they are that qualified.[/QUOTE] this really is the worst kind of argument there is. haven't you always criticized that notion? why are you suddenly using the logic you criticize? how come people do this without realizing how opportunistic and two-faced it makes them look?
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51546933]your comparison would make more sense if he found a job as a cashier at a recently demolished mcdonald's [/QUOTE] The point still stands. You wouldn't kick him out immediately but you would expect him to leave eventually. They are not immigrants, they are refugees. The countries that they found shelter from war in are not their homes. They need to go back and rebuild because, honestly, who else is going to? Developed nations should lend a hand, but they need to go back because "you can all jump ship and crash forever on the couches of developed nations if your country is flying down the shitter" is a really bad message to spread to the world. that's been my real issue with this whole crisis handling all along. Refuge is fine to give, free immigration passes aren't. Not only is it a bad idea because you're importing poverty, it's also massively unfair to those trying to immigrate through the established channels from countries that are poor off, but aren't at war. [editline]18th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Dave_Parker;51546932]Syria is not an area that gets struck by natural disasters frequently enough or even on a large enough scale for anything like that to happen.[/QUOTE] If you build cities without standards, you get London fires and children dying from tetanus/random bricks/epidemics. Building codes are in place (mostly) for a reason.
[MEDIA]https://twitter.com/Dalatrm/status/810480740668506112[/MEDIA] [MEDIA]https://twitter.com/sayed_ridha/status/810485339135410176[/MEDIA] Moderate Opposition torches Green Busses heading to Foua and Kafraya to evacuate wounded as part of the agreement of the Aleppo Evacuation. Some Busses made it but i doubt they will leave due to the safety concerns. If any of the civilians are killed from the buses if they do leave, what's left of the Aleppo pocket would become rubble and ashes fast.
[QUOTE=Adamnetwork;51547011][MEDIA]https://twitter.com/Dalatrm/status/810480740668506112[/MEDIA] [MEDIA]https://twitter.com/sayed_ridha/status/810485339135410176[/MEDIA] Moderate Opposition torches Green Busses heading to Foua and Kafraya to evacuate wounded as part of the agreement of the Aleppo Evacuation. Some Busses made it but i doubt they will leave due to the safety concerns. If any of the civilians are killed from the buses if they do leave, what's left of the Aleppo pocket would become rubble and ashes fast.[/QUOTE] There are people unironically painting these shitstains as victims. It takes a certain amount of scummery to kill a Red Crescent worker.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51546858]Imagine if Irish immigrants were told to go home from America as soon as we got independence. [B]Imagine if the people who fled Germany were told to just "go home" after the end of the Second World War.[/B] Many will go home. We shouldn't force them. Especially since I believe that Syria will be at war in the next decade. I hope I'm wrong. But if anything, the war in Syria has disillusioned me from any good the international community could do in a war, as well as the fact that all sides didn't have the good of the Syrian people at heart.[/QUOTE] funnily enough that actually happened, but when we realised that the Soviet Union was so powerful, and that Germany was the only country in their way, we thought "hm, maybe we better actually help these people" do people really expect Syria to just rebuild itself? after all our politicking and interfering, we're just going to wash our hands and pretend we did nothing wrong? i agree that the refugees should go back, but once they have something to go back to, a foundation to build upon at the least. at the moment all they have is blasted rubble and strife.
[QUOTE=Simplemac3;51546406]Why the fuck would he do that? He responded to a popular uprising that started civil with violence and came out on top, why would he do anything but keep doing what he was doing?[/QUOTE] because its what russia, the people that kept him in power through thick and thin wants. Learn to politics, no dictator rules alone.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51546832]Except she did win the election? She may not have won all the electoral votes, but she most definitely won all the people's votes.[/QUOTE] She lost the election, deal with it... The popular vote is not the election and is irrelevant to the outcome of the election.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51547073]She lost the election, deal with it... The popular vote is not the election and is irrelevant to the outcome of the election.[/QUOTE] I like how you only entered the thread at the mention of hillary. but to not derail further I don't think you can leave a man like Assad in power, otherwise you're just going to be in the same situation a couple years from now, evil bringing stability is barely a reason to keep it around.
Yay, the guy who started this in the first place by shooting unarmed protesters and then proceeded to drop packet munitions and chemical weapons on civilians is going to win! If you support Assad, seriously rethink your life's decisions.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51547140]Yay, the guy who started this in the first place by shooting unarmed protesters and then proceeded to drop packet munitions and chemical weapons on civilians is going to win! If you support Assad, seriously rethink your life's decisions.[/QUOTE] Who do you support? You have a choice: "moderate" rebels, ISIS, Assad. There are no other options. Choose.
[QUOTE=yff;51547145]Who do you support? You have a choice: "moderate" rebels, ISIS, Assad. There are no other options. Choose.[/QUOTE] Why? He's not in Syria, he's not a Syrian. Why do those who have no direct link to the conflict have to choose a "best side" when there clearly is none?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51547163]Why? He's not in Syria, he's not a Syrian. Why do those who have no direct link to the conflict have to choose a "best side" when there clearly is none?[/QUOTE] So the point is to bitch and moan about any possible outcome? Some outcome has to happen, and the best one by far is the Assad winning scenario. You have to make the best out of extremely bad situation.
[QUOTE=yff;51547181]So the point is to bitch and moan about any possible outcome? Some outcome has to happen, and the best one by far is the Assad winning scenario. You have to make the best out of extremely bad situation.[/QUOTE] When all the outcomes are shit, I'm pretty sure it's okay to "bitch and moan" about all the outcomes being shit. "making the best" out of an all-shit outcome is extremely subjective.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51547140]Yay, the guy who started this in the first place by shooting unarmed protesters and then proceeded to drop packet munitions and chemical weapons on civilians is going to win! If you support Assad, seriously rethink your life's decisions.[/QUOTE] So do you want ISIS, Shia jihadis that are like ISIS but less powerful, or Assad to win? Those are pretty much the only choices. Also, keep in mind that if Assad loses, it's very likely that there might be a genocide against the Alawites.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;51547265]So do you want ISIS, Shia jihadis that are like ISIS but less powerful, or Assad to win? Those are pretty much the only choices. Also, keep in mind that if Assad loses, it's very likely that there might be a genocide against the Alawites.[/QUOTE] Explain why there is a requirement to [I]want[/I] any particular one of this fucked up war to win?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51547270]Explain why there is a requirement to [I]want[/I] any particular one of this fucked up war to win?[/QUOTE] There's no reason to want any side to win, however one side will win regardless.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;51547298]There's no reason to want any side to win, however one side will win regardless.[/QUOTE] That doesn't mean we have to pick a favorite.
Except that I think that people would actually prefer Assad to ISIS. Assad is bad but I hope nobody thinks he is ISIS tier bad.
Both actively shoot civilians, I dunno. Ideologically, yeah they're drastically different, but in practice?
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51547140]Yay, the guy who started this in the first place by shooting unarmed protesters and then proceeded to drop packet munitions and chemical weapons on civilians is going to win! If you support Assad, seriously rethink your life's decisions.[/QUOTE] the government can "win" the war, but that doesn't have to mean he'll escape justice. and honestly i don't see the opposition stopping until he does, regardless of how much their insurgencies have to splinter and how domestic their attacks become.
[QUOTE=Ridge;51546157]Send every last one of them back. Who gives a damn if they don't want to, they're refugees. By definition, they are seeking shelter from a war. Once that war is over, they're supposed to go back.[/QUOTE] Should my moms family be forced to go back to Vietnam then? What about every American who can trace their ancestry to Irish fleeing the potato famine? [editline]18th December 2016[/editline] I guarantee you that almost every american has refugee blood in them.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;51546432]How can you be so ignorant of the very values your country fought for. For fucks sake you have this chiseled into the statue of liberty. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" What happened to you to make you so hateful of those trying to escape persecution and tyranny.[/QUOTE] If they want to go through the immigration process, they can. But the reason they left their country would not be an issue anymore. Shit, your country left the EU because of that.
[QUOTE=Ridge;51547714]If they want to go through the immigration process, they can. But the reason they left their country would not be an issue anymore. Shit, your country left the EU because of that.[/QUOTE] No, Britain left the EU because of populist fear and lies from the Leave side - such as "Turkey are gonna join any day guys" (yeah, look how [I]that[/I] turned out). If they really wanted to reduce immigration they would have targetted emigration from outside of the EU. But instead they've know screwed themselves.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51547719]No, Britain left the EU because of populist fear and lies from the Leave side - such as "Turkey are gonna join any day guys" (yeah, look how [I]that[/I] turned out). If they really wanted to reduce immigration they would have targetted emigration from outside of the EU. But instead they've know screwed themselves.[/QUOTE] Immigration from outside the EU is manageable. It's the unfiltered no borders requirement of EU membership that makes immigration hard to track.
[QUOTE=Ridge;51547727]Immigration from outside the EU is manageable. It's the unfiltered no borders requirement of EU membership that makes immigration hard to track.[/QUOTE] Why is this a significant problem? Britain wasn't even in the Schengen area - it was harder to get to than most EU states. It also had vetos, didn't have the Euro, and had a very special position. It was absolutely moronic for it to leave - but that's not relevant to this thread.
[QUOTE=Ridge;51547727]Immigration from outside the EU is manageable. It's the unfiltered no borders requirement of EU membership that makes immigration hard to track.[/QUOTE] Thank you for proving you have no idea what you're talking about. The UK isn't part of the schengen area and doesn't abide by the same rules regarding the free movement of EU citizens. Immigration is a scapegoat carted out to take some focus away from our governments shitty policies.
[QUOTE=yff;51547145]Who do you support? You have a choice: "moderate" rebels, ISIS, Assad. There are no other options. Choose.[/QUOTE] You don't have to support anyone.
some of you guys are so naive like do you even know whats happening outside your armchair and how some people live? 'great, send them back!' how sheltered do you have to be, your attitude perpetuates suffering.
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