• Dark Souls II to be more Punishing
    237 replies, posted
[QUOTE=KorJax;42241236]Being human had no effect on item rarity (your humanity counter did though, up to 10 humanity). The only bonus being human had in Dark Souls was that it let you be invaded (including by NPCs, nessciary to get certain special gearsets), and it let you summon other players to co-op in missions with. Which is a great advantage, but if you had the capability to beat bosses on your own you could pretty much avoid the risk of invasion by simply choosing to no co-op. I do wish though that they make it so if you are undead, your invasion range is smaller (i.e. you can only be invaded by people within 3 levels of you instead of 10) and your invasion timer is much bigger (only a max of 1 invasion every 30 minutes instead of 10-15). So there is still a higher risk for being human over being undead. [editline]19th September 2013[/editline] Eh, how dark souls handles death is part of the game. Thats part of its brilliance - dieing is apart of the design and it isn't some kind of end all "you lose!" failure state. The only time you truly lose is when you make the same mistake (death) twice in a row without going to get your souls, and even then its a small loss you take when that happens rather than a "reload a previous save" like it is in most games.[/QUOTE] Yeah, that would help a bit, but it really wouldn't fix the problem of not even being allowed to leave the room anymore. Especially since dying now decreases your max health. It seems like the only way to be able to play the game now is to either have absolutely no obligations ever, or turn the game off every time you need to do something.
hey im sure they know what they're doing, they'll likely factor in the increased difficulty of the decreased health in the gameplay
[QUOTE=Laferio;42241127]get better at PvP.[/QUOTE] I shouldn't have to be good at something that is functionally broken to enjoy the game as a whole. I love dark souls, but pvp can fuck right of. [editline]sjdhf[/editline] Dumbs you say? Lets go over how DKS pvp works again. 1. Spin in circles with your shields up until one of you glitches behind the other, then backstab. 2. Dark magic like a mother fucker. 3. Just have a way bigger stick so you can just bash through their shield. "fun"
If the pvp is anything like Dark Souls 1 then I guess you'll have to choose between laggy backstab-fests or negative feedback loops, both options sound really boring.
[QUOTE=Hobo4President;42241411]If the pvp is anything like Dark Souls 1 then I guess you'll have to choose between laggy backstab-fests or negative feedback loops, both options sound really boring.[/QUOTE] it won't be like dark souls 1; they're switching to server-based architecture instead of shitty P2P online play
[QUOTE=Rellow;42240783]Welp, didn't really play that far through the first Dark Souls because everyone hyped up the difficulty to the point where I was too afraid to take the risks needed to progress. If Dark Souls 2 is actually forcing me to deal with invasions then it can definitely go fuck itself. I am shit at PvP and I want nothing to do with it.[/QUOTE] Cool, then don't play the game. If the difficulty isn't for you, then the game isn't for you. That's not insulting you nor the game. Play something else.
[QUOTE=Rellow;42240783]Welp, didn't really play that far through the first Dark Souls because everyone hyped up the difficulty to the point where I was too afraid to take the risks needed to progress. If Dark Souls 2 is actually forcing me to deal with invasions then it can definitely go fuck itself. I am shit at PvP and I want nothing to do with it.[/QUOTE] How it will probably work in Dark Souls 2 (like it worked in Dark Souls) is that if you've been invaded and killed, no one else can invade you for about 10 minutes.
The way Dark Souls punishes you for fucking up is completely fair. Dark Souls is a rare type of game. It never breaks its own rules (except for the rare bug or the entirety of Bed of Chaos), so most player deaths can be attributed to the player's own mistakes. Got stuck in Blighttown with shit weapons at a low level? Oh well, too bad. You decided to try to brute force your way past an entire section of enemies that are clearly too powerful for you. Can't upgrade your weapons at the blacksmith anymore? Maybe you shouldn't have killed the blacksmith. I'm really sick of games giving players a helping hand, with shit like "oh you died 5 times, would you like to lower the difficulty level?" The difficulty level in Dark Souls, despite a few bugs and areas with questionable design, is perfect. It is a difficulty that the player can alter by themselves. in a few ways. Getting fucked up a lot? Upgrade/get better gear or summon someone to help you out. Game too easy? Challenge yourself with an SL1 build or one of the many other weird challenge builds out there. A difficulty slider or an alternate "hardcore" mode would ruin Dark Souls, besides the obvious problems that would bring up with the way multiplayer works. If every player has to deal with the same difficulty regardless of the system they're playing on, killing a boss feels soooo fucking good. You can't expect players to [I]not[/I] cheat and lower the difficulty when they're trying to get past a difficult area.
If they remove the backstabs from pvp it will be perfect.
[QUOTE=aydin690;42241520]If they remove the backstabs from pvp it will be perfect.[/QUOTE] That and Dark Magic is what makes PvP a bit bleh in Dark Souls. Dark Magic and backstabs are relatively balanced, but they're ridiculous when playing online because you're dead if you have more than a 1 ping difference. Another thing I think they need to do is make the AI more difficult. Once you have 200+ hours like me, the AI is a fucking joke. They're idiots. If they could up the average hollows to be as difficult as say... Ricard, Mildred, and the other "smart" NPCs, that would be great.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42241511]The way Dark Souls punishes you for fucking up is completely fair. Dark Souls is a rare type of game. It never breaks its own rules (except for the rare bug or the entirety of Bed of Chaos), so most player deaths can be attributed to the player's own mistakes. Got stuck in Blighttown with shit weapons at a low level? Oh well, too bad. You decided to try to brute force your way past an entire section of enemies that are clearly too powerful for you. Can't upgrade your weapons at the blacksmith anymore? Maybe you shouldn't have killed the blacksmith. I'm really sick of games giving players a helping hand, with shit like "oh you died 5 times, would you like to lower the difficulty level?" The difficulty level in Dark Souls, despite a few bugs and areas with questionable design, is perfect. It is a difficulty that the player can alter by themselves. in a few ways. Getting fucked up a lot? Upgrade/get better gear or summon someone to help you out. Game too easy? Challenge yourself with an SL1 build or one of the many other weird challenge builds out there. A difficulty slider or an alternate "hardcore" mode would ruin Dark Souls, besides the obvious problems that would bring up with the way multiplayer works. If every player has to deal with the same difficulty regardless of the system they're playing on, killing a boss feels soooo fucking good. You can't expect players to [I]not[/I] cheat and lower the difficulty when they're trying to get past a difficult area.[/QUOTE] So let me get this straight. If every time you died say, the first time you went through sens funhouse, the size you your health bar decreased, that would be fair? Yea, ok.
[QUOTE=Irespawnoften;42241544]So let me get this straight. If every time you died say, the first time you went through sens funhouse, the size you your health bar decreased, that would be fair? Yea, ok.[/QUOTE] Well yeah, considering that you could bump it back up to normal using that humanity item they've been very vague about.
[QUOTE=Irespawnoften;42241544]So let me get this straight. If every time you died say, the first time you went through sens funhouse, the size you your health bar decreased, that would be fair? Yea, ok.[/QUOTE] If you don't like the changes they plan on making just don't buy the game it comes out and stop complaining. damn
Also you guys are making a really big deal out of this [quote]According to game director Yui Tanimura, players can lose up to 50 percent of their max health by repeatedly dying as an undead.[/quote] Up to 50 percent of your max HP, kinda like how it worked in Demon's Souls. Not only that but they might change how much HP you can lose before the game comes out.
If it's only 50% like Demon Souls then it's nothing worth complaining about. In my playthough of Demon Souls most of the time I had 50% of my max health and had very few problems.
HP probably wont be that big of a deal in this game anyways, since theres now that regen item you get sometimes. I think this is pretty balanced.
[QUOTE=Makol;42241551]If you don't like the changes they plan on making just don't buy the game it comes out and stop complaining. damn[/QUOTE] You guys are hilarious. You're all so concerned about DKS2 being leetprohardskill that you can't even see possibly detrimental gameplay changes right in front of you.
[QUOTE=Irespawnoften;42241600]You guys are hilarious. You're all so concerned about DKS2 being leetprohardskill that you can't even see possibly detrimental gameplay changes right in front of you.[/QUOTE] No. I'm just tired of you complaining.
[QUOTE=Irespawnoften;42241600]You guys are hilarious. You're all so concerned about DKS2 being leetprohardskill that you can't even see possibly detrimental gameplay changes right in front of you.[/QUOTE] how is it a negative now dying will actually have some consequence, the humanity replacing item is actually precious playing at half health is no big deal, every demon's souls player had to deal with that
I don't know how you guys are saying this is a negative gameplay change when you haven't even played the game. It's not as if this change is in Dark Souls 1, I'm sure the game is designed with these changes in mind.
[QUOTE=Makol;42241579]If it's only 50% like Demon Souls then it's nothing worth complaining about. In my playthough of Demon Souls most of the time I had 50% of my max health and had very few problems.[/QUOTE] And I'm sure they'll be an equivalent to the cling ring.
That damn Cling Ring is the Drake Sword of Demon's Souls I swear. I relied on it a little too much for a while when there were clearly better options for that precious ring slot.
[QUOTE=Irespawnoften;42241544]So let me get this straight. If every time you died say, the first time you went through sens funhouse, the size you your health bar decreased, that would be fair? Yea, ok.[/QUOTE] wait was sens hard for people?
[QUOTE=Shadaez;42242073]wait was sens hard for people?[/QUOTE] As a newcomer, yeah it was a little bit hard for me due to the traps at first but it becomes pretty damn easy once you figure them out and learn not to act like a moron when you cross the bridges with the pendulums. [QUOTE=Raidyr;42242082]The traps never got me but the serpent guards were a bitch to kill for me. Dunno if it was just me doing it wrong or being there too early.[/QUOTE] Were you weapons doing too little damage?
[QUOTE=Shadaez;42242073]wait was sens hard for people?[/QUOTE] The traps never got me but the serpent guards were a bitch to kill for me. Dunno if it was just me doing it wrong or being there too early.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;42241613]how is it a negative now dying will actually have some consequence, the humanity replacing item is actually precious playing at half health is no big deal, every demon's souls player had to deal with that[/QUOTE] Not to mention it's more forgiving than Demon's Souls since you lose it in increments rather than all at once.
As long as jolly co-operation is involved, I'm a happy chap.
I think it's a real triumph that so many people feel genuine panic when they get invaded. Very few games can provoke emotions like that
[QUOTE=Cl0cK;42240933]That's good, actually adds some actual challenge now. I love playing the game online anyways, it's more fun when there's more challenge.[/QUOTE] I know this sounds dumb but if you're looking for an actual challenge pick up Demon's Souls, if you haven't played it yet. I swear it had this insane level of difficulty that Dark Souls just couldn't match. I don't know what made it so much harder though... [editline]19th September 2013[/editline] Bullshit, it was definitely all the bullshit
[QUOTE=Rellow;42240908]And they can suck and get killed, or they can be trolls and [I]purposely[/I] suck and get killed.[/QUOTE] Purposely suck? I'd be tempted to spawn and do nothing but watch the host fight the invader :v:
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