• Dark Souls II to be more Punishing
    237 replies, posted
[QUOTE=FingerSpazem;42242483]I know this sounds dumb but if you're looking for an actual challenge pick up Demon's Souls, if you haven't played it yet. I swear it had this insane level of difficulty that Dark Souls just couldn't match. I don't know what made it so much harder though... [editline]19th September 2013[/editline] Bullshit, it was definitely all the bullshit[/QUOTE] Demon's Souls isn't hard in the same way as Dark Souls. Demon's Souls constantly sets up double standards for what you and the enemy can do and has a lot of shit designed entirely to waste your time. Dark Souls difficulty is more fair and consistent, which makes it 'easier' once you figure it out.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;42241233]I liked dark souls art style and combat, but honestly the whole dying constantly, having to reload at last checkpoint thing just didn't appeal to me. Will probably sit this one out Also, consolitis of the ages, dark souls didn't give a [I]fuck[/I][/QUOTE]Yeah, even back when having to go back to the start and do the same stuff over and over was the norm for extending what would otherwise probably be an hour long game, I've always hated that.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;42241052]Why would you punish the player even more, in a game designed to kill you a lot you shouldn't be severely punished for dying. I was probably gonna get DS2, but this made me reconsider.[/QUOTE] Because that is literally the purpose of the Dark Souls universe, draw you into the game and lore and make you experience what it's like being a technically immortal hollow by killing you over and over until you lose your shit.
[QUOTE=bravehat;42242803]Because that is literally the purpose of the Dark Souls universe, draw you into the game and lore and make you experience what it's like being a technically immortal hollow by killing you over and over until you lose your shit.[/QUOTE] The growing sense of hopelessness in continuously dieing and become weaker fits perfectly with the lore of being undead. I think it's going to add a lot to experience. It adds more dread and weight to your actions. In dark souls you could suicide run catacombs as many times as you wanted to get that scythe. Now there's more risk associated regardless if you know you can easily get your souls back.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;42242689]Demon's Souls isn't hard in the same way as Dark Souls. Demon's Souls constantly sets up double standards for what you and the enemy can do and has a lot of shit designed entirely to waste your time. Dark Souls difficulty is more fair and consistent, which makes it 'easier' once you figure it out.[/QUOTE] Like I said, it's the bullshit. [editline]19th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=RichyZ;42242829]demon's is also really trial and error, contrary to the believe of the general public, isn't what dark souls set out to be[/QUOTE] It's not so much trial and error as much as just being really fucking careful, walking slowly everywhere with your shield up and being prepared to sprint in the other direction at any moment. Dark Souls was more fun
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;42241613]how is it a negative now dying will actually have some consequence, the humanity replacing item is actually precious playing at half health is no big deal, every demon's souls player had to deal with that[/QUOTE] So I haven't played Demon's Souls, and I daresay it will be fine, but I still don't like this idea. Mainly because it's a vicious cycle - die, lose max health, make it easier to die, die again, etc. Surely losing progress was enough of a consequence for dying? For me, the fun of Dark Souls was getting further in the levels, and being able to rely on the fact that each attempt was the same.
[video=youtube;ea6UuRTjkKs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6UuRTjkKs[/video] This is why I think that this idea of more 'punishing' gameplay is a step backwards for Dark Souls. Making a game that gets harder the worse you do at it is not fun and this is exactly what it does. I mean what if Super Meat Boy had a lives system and if you died you had to start the entire chapter all over again? It'd be infuriating!
[QUOTE=Reshy;42243766]This is why I think that this idea of more 'punishing' gameplay is a step backwards for Dark Souls. Making a game that gets harder the worse you do at it is not fun and this is exactly what it does. I mean what if Super Meat Boy had a lives system and if you died you had to start the entire chapter all over again? It'd be infuriating![/QUOTE] Then get some goddamn humanity and you wont have to deal with it. Honestly games that really punish you for dying or even making mistakes, I love. It's the crippling failure that always drives me to beat it, reloading a save just isn't fun.
This is cool, I hope they also make it so if you quit during an invasion you automatically die. I hate invading as someone willing to have a fair fight to have the invadee automatically quit. Especially when its really fucking hard to get an invasion.
[QUOTE=FingerSpazem;42243839]Then get some goddamn humanity and you wont have to deal with it. Honestly games that really punish you for dying or even making mistakes, I love. It's the crippling failure that always drives me to beat it, reloading a save just isn't fun.[/QUOTE] Assuming you haven't already wasted them and can't find anymore because you keep dying. You even watch the video?
More infuriating? I await it eagerly.
[QUOTE=Reshy;42243907]Assuming you haven't already wasted them and can't find anymore because you keep dying. You even watch the video?[/QUOTE] It's not like you go straight to 50% HP like in Demon Souls, and even then people said they played with 50% a lot of the time fine. Honestly if you've died enough to get to 50% HP you should have enough experience by then to not get smacked in the face by every enemy you see. In my opinion if you die once, you should just keep playing until you're down to 50% and then use a humanity. plus I assume you can just ask a summon to drop some and maybe the orange soapstone system still gives you humanity for being rated up
[QUOTE=KnightSolaire;42242122]As long as jolly co-operation is involved, I'm a happy chap.[/QUOTE] Co-op is still there, but it now works with a timer. The more the summon kills, the faster his timer goes down. This is so to prevent people from winning the game for you.
[QUOTE=booster;42244306]Co-op is still there, but it now works with a timer. The more the summon kills, the faster his timer goes down. This is so to prevent people from winning the game for you.[/QUOTE] DSP is fucked.
I always thought it was funny when my game glitched and my character was unable to be killed, I'd go human and just wait for invaders. I shit on their day instead, I didn't kill them, no, I let them sit there and squirm, knowing they were unable to kill me.
[QUOTE=FingerSpazem;42243839][B]Then get some goddamn humanity and you wont have to deal with it.[/B] Honestly games that really punish you for dying or even making mistakes, I love. It's the crippling failure that always drives me to beat it, reloading a save just isn't fun.[/QUOTE] Clearly you don't remember Anor Londo.
dark souls 2 sponsored by bad dragon
[QUOTE=Lukeo;42244287]It's not like you go straight to 50% HP like in Demon Souls, and even then people said they played with 50% a lot of the time fine. Honestly if you've died enough to get to 50% HP you should have enough experience by then to not get smacked in the face by every enemy you see. In my opinion if you die once, you should just keep playing until you're down to 50% and then use a humanity. plus I assume you can just ask a summon to drop some and maybe the orange soapstone system still gives you humanity for being rated up[/QUOTE] Knowledge only goes so far, then there's execution. Also because you lose health when you die you become less able to act upon better strategies simply because you no longer have the HP you need.
I think this is a bad idea for the reasons mentioned. Either the amount of HP lost is too great and effigies are too rare, and it becomes an extreme annoyance that wastes your time and makes you farm or go back to get effigies, which doesn't actually make it harder, it just makes it a pain in the ass; that, or the amount of HP lost is minimal and/or effigies are very common, and if that's the case, why even have the feature in the game to begin with? It's just a bad idea all around. Dark Souls was great because the reason you had to be careful was how far back you'd get sent if you failed and how many souls you lost. If you're just exploring you can feel free to take risks to see if you can make that jump and get that sparkling item on that platform, and if you fail it's no big deal as long as you'd spent your souls somewhere. This feature is going to kill that sort of thing, which is very bad.
Demon's Souls is a cakewalk compared to Dark Souls, The first time I played it I got most of the bosses on one go, so of course the halved HP isn't that big of a deal. If you did that in Dark Souls 1 it would be devastating. So I hope they adjust the mechanics properly in Dark Souls 2 to compensate. At least if you get the Effigy from PVP it will actually have a worthwhile reward.
[QUOTE=Whatsinaname;42240730]I don't really like the idea that I can never even walk away from my game without fear of getting killed and having my stuff stolen. It was nice to at least make the online stuff optional in the last game. This sounds like a bit much.[/QUOTE] The only thing you lose when you die is the souls you've farmed and whatever progress you've made in the place you're exploring. It's not that bad. It'll take no less than an hour to grind back whatever you lost. I used to be terrible at PVP (still pretty mediocre, but I can fight off invaders) but I practiced a lot by joining the Forest Hunter covenant. No penalty for dying, and if you do succeed in invading someone else's world, you either get titanite shards or chunks atop of the souls you earn.
i personally can't wait to see all of the new covenants. if they're adding a covenant specifically for helping people when you get invaded, then i can only imagine what kind of covenants they have for invaders.
people talk about how like they just cant win because people have power builds meant to fuck you over when i started DaS, I played as the naked dude with just the club and i tore it up in PvP because the game isn't about your equipment. If you're smart, you can beat anyone. [editline]19th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=FingerSpazem;42243839]Then get some goddamn humanity and you wont have to deal with it. Honestly games that really punish you for dying or even making mistakes, I love. It's the crippling failure that always drives me to beat it, reloading a save just isn't fun.[/QUOTE] I'm on this side, because I tend to want to push myself through the game. Once you reach the end, it's such a fucking treat knowing you did it even with the odds stacked against you. But I understand there are plenty of you who do not have fun with that at all, and want to have a slight challenge but nothing that can cripple you. the best kind of games imho are the kind that say "You're going to learn my mechanics and how I work, and you're gonna love it." [editline]19th September 2013[/editline] nothing Space Quest tier though where if you go somewhere without getting the right item, you may need to restart the game. The game should always provide a way, which Dark Souls did a great job of doing
[QUOTE=Reshy;42244783]Knowledge only goes so far, then there's execution. Also because you lose health when you die you become less able to act upon better strategies simply because you no longer have the HP you need.[/QUOTE] This didn't stop people in Demons Souls so why the fuck is it an issue now??
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;42246367]This didn't stop people in Demons souls so why the fuck is it an issue now??[/QUOTE] Because Souls players have grown fat and docile. Dark Souls was apparently not enough to drive home the message.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;42245669]demons was super easy not because of the actual difficulty, but because you could hold on to your healing items and multiple items regenerated health/mana at a steady rate, which also let you heal yourself/inch away at a boss safely[/QUOTE] That still fits into my point People are saying "but demon's souls did half health and people got by" but Demon's souls handled things differently than Dark Souls such as the healing items. If Dark Souls 2 simply drops the health you have each time without any kind of mechanic such as additional healing items for example and just go the way of DS1 its going to be dumb.
[QUOTE=Saxon;42246574]That still fits into my point People are saying "but demon's souls did half health and people got by" but Demon's souls handled things differently than Dark Souls such as the healing items. If Dark Souls 2 simply drops the health you have each time without any kind of mechanic such as additional healing items for example and just go the way of DS1 its going to be dumb.[/QUOTE] But there are new healing items. You can get healing stones which regenerate health over time.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;42246709]But there are new healing items. You can get healing stones which regenerate health over time.[/QUOTE] Ah well never mind, that can actually just make the game easier :v:
[QUOTE=Saxon;42246574]That still fits into my point People are saying "but demon's souls did half health and people got by" but Demon's souls handled things differently than Dark Souls such as the healing items. If Dark Souls 2 simply drops the health you have each time without any kind of mechanic such as additional healing items for example and just go the way of DS1 its going to be dumb.[/QUOTE] The only dumb thing here is people bitching about this. It's no different than being cursed in DS2(which actually used to be way worse until they patched it).
[QUOTE=Cpl.Shepherd;42244925]The only thing you lose when you die is the souls you've farmed and whatever progress you've made in the place you're exploring. It's not that bad. It'll take no less than an hour to grind back whatever you lost. I used to be terrible at PVP (still pretty mediocre, but I can fight off invaders) but I practiced a lot by joining the Forest Hunter covenant. No penalty for dying, and if you do succeed in invading someone else's world, you either get titanite shards or chunks atop of the souls you earn.[/QUOTE] "You can grind back what you lose" is a really ineffective justification. You shouldn't have to lose [i]anything[/i] just by leaving the game alone. Unless, you know, you're just standing in some area full of enemies or something. That would just be stupid.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.