• Dark Souls II to be more Punishing
    237 replies, posted
[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;42246767]The only dumb thing here is people bitching about this. It's no different than being cursed in DS2(which actually used to be way worse until they patched it).[/QUOTE] Not really? You don't get cursed every time you die
[QUOTE=Saxon;42246850]Not really? You don't get cursed every time you die[/QUOTE] No, but the outcome is the same. You lose half your health and have to use an item to get it back. Or are you not seeing the similarities? Fuck, in comparison DS2 is gonna be more forgiving since you only lose a little bit of HP each time you die instead of half in one shot.
[QUOTE=Whatsinaname;42246846]"You can grind back what you lose" is a really ineffective justification. You shouldn't have to lose [i]anything[/i] just by leaving the game alone. Unless, you know, you're just standing in some area full of enemies or something. That would just be stupid.[/QUOTE] just exit to the main menu
[QUOTE=X-Neon;42243757]So I haven't played Demon's Souls, and I daresay it will be fine, but I still don't like this idea. Mainly because it's a vicious cycle - die, lose max health, make it easier to die, die again, etc. Surely losing progress was enough of a consequence for dying? For me, the fun of Dark Souls was getting further in the levels, and being able to rely on the fact that each attempt was the same.[/QUOTE] It's almost like the game is set up in such a way as to force you to get better at it. Almost like a hollow would have to do. Are you seeing the point yet?
[QUOTE=Zeos;42244500]Clearly you don't remember Anor Londo.[/QUOTE] Relevant: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5yw0wHQx9A[/media]
There's a good kind of difficulty and a bad kind of difficulty, and this isn't the good kind.
It's been stated that the Effigies are going to be similar to Demons Souls' Stone of Ephemeral Eyes, which were certainly rare and finite, and is one of the only ways to become human, the other is to kill a boss with a host that summons you. I'm guessing it will be exactly like DeS, except your health doesn't instantly drop to half now but in increments.
[QUOTE=Benzine;42249218]It's been stated that the Effigies are going to be similar to Demons Souls' Stone of Ephemeral Eyes, which were certainly rare and finite, and is one of the only ways to become human, the other is to kill a boss with a host that summons you. I'm guessing it will be exactly like DeS, except your health doesn't instantly drop to half now but in increments.[/QUOTE] It ultimately sounds like a big merger of both Demon's Souls and Dark Souls elements (brutal difficulty of DeS, open-ended style of DaS), but with the Dark Souls name for obvious reasons.
[QUOTE=No_0ne;42249129]There's a good kind of difficulty and a bad kind of difficulty, and this isn't the good kind.[/QUOTE] explain?
[QUOTE=Zeos;42244500]Clearly you don't remember Anor Londo.[/QUOTE] I do, and this mechanic would have made it so much more frustratingly tasty. [editline]19th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Reshy;42243907]Assuming you haven't already wasted them and can't find anymore because you keep dying. You even watch the video?[/QUOTE] Yeah I watched the video, I don't see the problem though? [editline]19th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Benzine;42249218]It's been stated that the Effigies are going to be similar to Demons Souls' Stone of Ephemeral Eyes, which were certainly rare and finite, and is one of the only ways to become human, the other is to kill a boss with a host that summons you. I'm guessing it will be exactly like DeS, except your health doesn't instantly drop to half now but in increments.[/QUOTE] Oh god, playing an entire level to kill a boss for my humanity only to die at the beginning of the next level was so awful. That in itself is more brutal than losing total health as an undead, unless both of these are working in conjunction then it'd be fucked [editline]19th September 2013[/editline] I'm fucking ready
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;42249571]explain?[/QUOTE] It only makes things tedious, refering to the health mechanic.
[QUOTE=No_0ne;42249662]It only makes things tedious, refering to the health mechanic.[/QUOTE] I disagree, it just means you have to try hard to not die. It's not difficult to run a level unscathed once you're good and this will definitely help people with that. If you take the time to memorize each level as you die and repeat it, you WILL be able to beat it with almost no health [editline]19th September 2013[/editline] I believe in you No_0ne
Truthfully, I don't like the idea of losing max HP every time you die, but I guess I'll just get used to it. Changes to summon rules and invasions don't matter to me because I rarely summon people/get summoned or invade people.
[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;42249741]Truthfully, I don't like the idea of losing max HP every time you die, but I guess I'll just get used to it. Changes to summon rules and invasions don't matter to me because I rarely summon people/get summoned or invade people.[/QUOTE] They might matter because now you'll be invaded whether you're Hollow or Human.
Really though! This is exactly what Dark Souls II needs. After beating Demon's Souls I just blew right through Dark Souls expecting the same challenge and was incredibly disappointed. I don't know if it was because I was already used to a very similar game or if it was genuinely easier or a combination of both. It's still probably one of my favorite games but it could be so much harder and it looks like that's what they're doing with this. So excite
[QUOTE=Zeos;42244500]Clearly you don't remember Anor Londo.[/QUOTE] i beat anor londo boss in 4 tries, the rest of it was really easy apart from those magic using giant dudes, but you could just run by them
[QUOTE=FingerSpazem;42249695]I disagree, it just means you have to try hard to not die. It's not difficult to run a level unscathed once you're good and this will definitely help people with that. If you take the time to memorize each level as you die and repeat it, you WILL be able to beat it with almost no health [editline]19th September 2013[/editline] I believe in you No_0ne[/QUOTE] I don't mind difficulty, hell I'm playing Dustforce right now and it's hard as hell. I just don't like, to put it as ineloquently as possible, game-deaths that have permanent effects, negative or positive. It irks me.
[QUOTE=No_0ne;42249866]I don't mind difficulty, hell I'm playing Dustforce right now and it's hard as hell. I just don't like, to put it as ineloquently as possible, game-deaths that have permanent effects, negative or positive. It irks me.[/QUOTE] Except it's not a permanent effect, your health goes back to normal after you restore your humanity. Also Dustforce is the shit, some of the best video game music ever
[QUOTE=No_0ne;42249662]It only makes things tedious, refering to the health mechanic.[/QUOTE] To me it drastically improves the game for new players trying to get help. Phantoms would end up guiding players, using gestures to indicate things in order to get to the boss without fading. When I was new and I'd get summoned I'd literally kill everything in sight and murdering the boss without any help while the summoner just sat in the back watching. This hurt the player as he didn't gain any skill, and has gained a few levels to risk bigger invasions. I'd prefer the passive guidance phantom over the wreck-the-fuck-out-of-anything-in-the-way-of-the-summoner phantom. [editline]asf[/editline] Also, it adds to the difficulty.
[QUOTE=bravehat;42247493]It's almost like the game is set up in such a way as to force you to get better at it. Almost like a hollow would have to do. Are you seeing the point yet?[/QUOTE] The force to get better is simply wanting to beat game. It doesn't need this health system to compound it. Either way, it's a terrible way to get people to improve at something. It's common knowledge that when you teach someone something, you don't want to throw them in at the deep end, but rather ease them in to it. People do not learn best performing very difficult tasks.
The only thing I'm not liking is the timer on coop phantoms. I get the reasoning to add some kind of limitation because you could super cheese Dark Souls 1 with a partner (see: last half of DSP's playthrough) but I feel like it's going to be inconvenient.
[QUOTE=X-Neon;42251627]The force to get better is simply wanting to beat game. It doesn't need this health system to compound it. Either way, it's a terrible way to get people to improve at something. It's common knowledge that when you teach someone something, you don't want to throw them in at the deep end, but rather ease them in to it. People do not learn best performing very difficult tasks.[/QUOTE] Well this game is shaping up to have the learning curve of a vertical wall. stop complaining and step it UP
[QUOTE=Raidyr;42251684]The only thing I'm not liking is the timer on coop phantoms. I get the reasoning to add some kind of limitation because you could super cheese Dark Souls 1 with a partner (see: last half of DSP's playthrough) but I feel like it's going to be inconvenient.[/QUOTE] Pretty much this, your not learning anything about the game when phantoms are doing all the heavy lifting for you. It did feel like phantoms where a bit cheap when your able to blaze through the entire place without much risk. I'd imagine the panic when your only half way through the area and your phantoms go "Bye Bye" and leave you in a rock and a hard place, making you have to step up and fend for yourself. Of course, the fact that i can pretty much invade pretty much [i]anyone[/i], regaurdlass of them being human or not is fucking [b]glorious[/b]. And i don't mind having what is basicly "Interceptors" coming along to try and stop me. That's what Blades of the Darkmoon should had been if they werent too busy going on about the whole "guility paying the price" nonsense... Hopefully there is soem sort of ring that gives you back at least half of your lost health while you wear it, like the Cling Ring in Demon Souls.
let's hope they add limited saving system so its autosaves at only certain points
[QUOTE=Rollindeep;42251774]let's hope they add limited saving system so its autosaves at only certain points[/QUOTE] that would break almost all aspects of the game's design
[QUOTE=Rollindeep;42251774]let's hope they add limited saving system so its autosaves at only certain points[/QUOTE] what happens when you come back from being a phantom for a friend, or invading someone? do you just go back an hour in map progress or something?
[QUOTE=Rollindeep;42251774]let's hope they add limited saving system so its autosaves at only certain points[/QUOTE] That wouldn't really work at with Dark Soul's. Every time you die all the enemies on the map are brought back to life but other than that it's a persistent world. If you kill a friendly NPC there's no reloading save games to bring it back, you're stuck with that choice forever. I don't want the comfort of reloading a saved game and I know they wont add it. [editline]20th September 2013[/editline] I guess there's the possibility of having to reacquire a certain item but I feel like these games don't need that. The way death works in this game ties in with the lore, dying over and over again is literally part of your characters story. Being able to reload a save would break everything about that, it wouldn't feel like death and rebirth. I dunno, I think it's just so badass that you're thrown into this fucked up world that no man could ever survive. You're a normal human in pretty much every way possible except for the fact that you can't die. You're still inconvenienced by death but you're journey isn't instantly over, like a mortal's would be. I feel like if a hell existed it would be that...
[QUOTE=X-Neon;42251627]The force to get better is simply wanting to beat game. It doesn't need this health system to compound it. Either way, it's a terrible way to get people to improve at something. It's common knowledge that when you teach someone something, you don't want to throw them in at the deep end, but rather ease them in to it. People do not learn best performing very difficult tasks.[/QUOTE] You must have missed the point of Dark Souls. The entire point is to throw you in, because you're supposed to echo your character, you're literally just some wanker who somehow hasn't gone insane and is supposed to perform these insane tasks that you've never been trained for, you're supposed to survive against all odds by dying over and over and over to learn. [editline]20th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Rollindeep;42251774]let's hope they add limited saving system so its autosaves at only certain points[/QUOTE] It'll be from bonfires so it'll be the same as before. Punishing.
[QUOTE=bravehat;42251963]You must have missed the point of Dark Souls. The entire point is to throw you in, because you're supposed to echo your character, you're literally just some wanker who somehow hasn't gone insane and is supposed to perform these insane tasks that you've never been trained for, you're supposed to survive against all odds by dying over and over and over to learn. [editline]20th September 2013[/editline] It'll be from bonfires so it'll be the same as before. Punishing.[/QUOTE] Just because we liked the game in different ways doesn't mean I missed the point. I don't care if it makes sense in terms of the story or the world, I do not feel this health system would make for good gameplay.
[QUOTE=X-Neon;42252498]Just because we liked the game in different ways doesn't mean I missed the point. I don't care if it makes sense in terms of the story or the world, I do not feel this health system would make for good gameplay.[/QUOTE] I completely disagree, it adds a premium to skill in the game, you get better and you suffer less, thus making life easier, it's just a more tangible way to push you into getting better.
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