Extremely outdated US credit cards are to be replaced. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Reagy;43836681]You guys must just have terrible readers or a poorly structured backend system. Knowing Walmart it's both because ASDA suffers the same over here.[/QUOTE] Walmart is the cheapest fucking company on the planet, they only hire part time workers since they don't want to pay for the benefits full time employees get. The roof leaks all over the store when it rains, getting all the clothes soaked in the fashion department. It looks like a rain forest, and we have to close off isles and place garbage bins all over it to collect the water. But no, they're too cheap to fix that too. Its a shame, a store that brings in millions of dollars in pure profit each year can't afford to fix a leaky roof.

[QUOTE=Teddi Orange;43836483]Not quite. Chip and pin is a security method that stores various details on a "chip" embedded on to the card as shown - [thumb]http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/images/chip-n-pin.jpg[/thumb] When it comes to authorizing a payment, at the checkout you have to input the card "pin" (ie what you use at an ATM) which gets verified at the payment processors end. The idea is that it's harder to defraud (set of numbers as opposed to signature) and it's easier to identify liability. The "tap to pay" method is actually known as cash-on-tap. Effectively you can just tap a payment receiver (assuming it supports it) to immediately charge the amount required. The only problem effectively is that this is [I]easier[/I] to defraud seeing as if the card gets stolen the thief could effectively make numerous small transactions. This uses the NFC tech that's appearing more and more recently. NFC Card - [thumb]http://www.theonlinemom.com/images/nfc-credit-card.jpg[/thumb][/QUOTE] Don't even need to steal the card

Wow, I've never even heard of chip n' pin until now.

Jesus, I can't even remember the last time I saw someone swiping a card.

[QUOTE=Reagy;43836573]Only times I've ever seen chip and pin fail for customers is when their card is badly damage, its wet, there is something on the chip or the muppet put the card in the wrong way. I've never had to do a magnetic card transaction ever in my life. Not for myself or other customers. Magnetic strip is just so insecure and so is contactless payments, I'd rather we all just stuck to chip and pin because then no random can just scan your card and copy the details which can be done for both contactless and magnetic.[/QUOTE] I once had a customer try and use magnetic strip, surprise surprise it was an attempt at fraud. Chip and Pin takes seconds and is so much more secure.

[QUOTE=viperfan7;43836780]Don't even need to steal the card[/QUOTE] Yeah, I personally dislike the idea of contact only payment, I like my chip and pin. Sure the daily amount spent by contactless is limited, but it's only a tiny bit slower to stick my card in and use the PIN, for much greater security. Only thing I can think of where I've seen people use it is instead of Oyster cards, which I fail to see the point of - oyster is ideal, rather than hedging bets on one card, and Oyster also caps daily travel costs, which isn't done if you use contactless.

You should see what canada has, we have all 3 methods

[QUOTE=DrogenViech;43836537]Why is using credit cards so popular in the US anyways? In germany we use direct debit for things like our electricity bill, and hard cash to pay at the gas station, super markets, and so on (using our debit card if we're in a hurry is a popular thing though)[/QUOTE] Just consumerist culture really At its basic level, benefits of a credit card mean you don't have to pay till the end of the month. If the bill is too big to pay, you can split it up between months. When used right, this gives a large amount of financial security for emergencies (i.e. needing to spend $2K to fix your car right now, that you don't have in cash). I use multiple credit cards for everything, I've stopped using debit entirely unless I need to use an ATM. The reason is largely to do with rewards and benefits (like double warrenties on anything you buy, free rental insurance, free phone insurance, etc) that you simply can't get with any debit card in the world. As long as you don't buy more than you can afford (aka pay your balance in full every month) then you are fine. The problem is if you are terrible with money, you need to stay away from credit cards at all costs because its really tempting to never pay off your bill in full each month which leads you spending much much more in an endless cycle of debt. They are NOT for people with no self control. Then again, its the people with no self control and a terrible credit score that allow me to earn $100-$300 a year in rewards, get large sign up bonuses ($200), etc... so I guess I can thank them for that.

[QUOTE=madjawa;43836202]wait, so in the US merchants actually check the signature on the back of the card?[/QUOTE] Working at small business I check ID if they use credit card and if they don't have valid ID, I simply deny them. But I've seen the chip cards a few time and didn't encounter it till recently, so embarrassingly I didn't know I had to swipe the card then insert it, but I still checked ID.

[QUOTE=TestECull;43836622]Because suburbanites see credit cards as access to money they don't have. It lets them buy ridiculously expensive bullshit they couldn't otherwise afford($75,000 brand new SUV every 3-5 years on 50K/yr? Credit cards, yo!), and the whole time they're blissfully unaware that they're racking up enough debt to rival small nations. It bites most of them in the ass, too, and has spawned an entire industry of 'debt consolidation specialists' which offer to help with the debt. [/QUOTE] Uh, there isn't a single credit card on the market that lets you just buy a car with it because every card has a credit limit and most car places don't accept credit. Typically when you buy a car, you get a loan. (which in principle, is basically credit in that you owe a bill at the end of the month plus interest) Now there are charge-cards which have no credit limit, but these are not credit cards technically since you have to pay the entire balance in full every month. Typically you can only get these if you credit score is very high and you have a lot of spend activity (aka only CEO's, celebs, upper middle class buisnessmen, etc need apply).

[QUOTE=FunnyStarRunner;43836630]Goddamn it. And I've only had my debt card for less than a year now.[/QUOTE] My previous debit card had tap to pay but the replacement I had printed at my bank feels cheap (unembossed) and doesn't have a chip in it

I wasn't even aware of this situation, rad

[QUOTE=KorJax;43837024]Uh, there isn't a single credit card on the market that lets you just buy a car with it because every card has a credit limit and most car places don't accept credit. Typically when you buy a car, you get a loan. (which in principle, is basically credit in that you owe a bill at the end of the month plus interest) [/QUOTE] Apparently you were asleep in class when they covered what an example was. Also you [i]can[/i] use a CC to make a car payment. You don't pay it in full with the card when you actually buy the car, no, but the card does let the irresponsible make a $650 car payment on a salary that only supports a payment half that size.

Hooray for America, Land of the Hilariously Slow and Outright-Backwards. I don't want to hate my country, but goddamn does it give me[I] so very many[/I] reasons. At least we're finally switching to chip and pin, knowing us we could have easily kept using this outdated crap for another 10 years, and not even noticed how everyone else had moved on.

[QUOTE=ultra_bright;43836120]Chip and pin tech is actually a pain in the ass. A lot of card readers fail to read them at the checkouts and you have to spend a few minutes sticking your card in over and over a few times until you can get them to work. A much better technology would be the visa tap, all you do is tap your card on the reader and everything gets paid for. And there is a default $100 daily limit on the card for tap in case it gets stolen.[/QUOTE] So you'd rather an insecure method than a secure method with a problem that I doubt many have actually experienced?

[QUOTE=DrogenViech;43836537]Why is using credit cards so popular in the US anyways? In germany we use direct debit for things like our electricity bill, and hard cash to pay at the gas station, super markets, and so on (using our debit card if we're in a hurry is a popular thing though)[/QUOTE] Without credit you cant get loans. Shit, if you have bad credit (or no credit) you may be turned away from jobs because they look at that stuff to show responsibility. I try to use debit for everything possible unless its a big purchase, then I use credit to build my score.

[QUOTE=Swilly;43836207]Its actually funny because we don't have chip & pin, but our consumer protection laws and systems are much better than European ones. I'd have to look it up but I think in England, you have to actually literally fax or mail a letter to get your card replaced and cancelled.[/QUOTE] Did you make this up now or did you read it somewhere?

What exactly is the benefit of chip and pin? With the cards ive had, you swype, input pin, and youre on your way. It sounds like all chip and pin does is puts a chip in the card so you put it up to the machine instead of swyping, and still input your pin

You'll have to pry my outdated charge card technology out of my hot, meaty fingers.

[QUOTE=ultra_bright;43836777]Walmart is the cheapest fucking company on the planet, they only hire part time workers since they don't want to pay for the benefits full time employees get. The roof leaks all over the store when it rains, getting all the clothes soaked in the fashion department. It looks like a rain forest, and we have to close off isles and place garbage bins all over it to collect the water. But no, they're too cheap to fix that too. Its a shame, a store that brings in millions of dollars in pure profit each year can't afford to fix a leaky roof.[/QUOTE] You think your card reader terminals are shit? Mine doesn't even [b]prompt[/b] you to complete the transaction. Its also stupidly insecure, what good is a chip reader if its connected by an unprotected telephone cord? I got a spare terminal from an old machine, and swapped them in under five seconds in front of my boss to demonstrate the issue too.

[QUOTE=DrogenViech;43836537]Why is using credit cards so popular in the US anyways? In germany we use direct debit for things like our electricity bill, and hard cash to pay at the gas station, super markets, and so on (using our debit card if we're in a hurry is a popular thing though)[/QUOTE] Because the whole American consumer culture is built on people spending money they don't have. Credit cards are the easiest way to access that. This is also why people often say that Americans don't own anything they use - their cars are on leasing, their houses are mortgaged and the rest is bought on credit. Capitalism, ho!

[QUOTE=madjawa;43836202]wait, so in the US merchants actually check the signature on the back of the card?[/QUOTE] Hell no. Swipe, hit your pin number, sign the receipt with any old bullshit, off you go. I don't find it too inconvenient, and needing the code works well enough. It's keyloggers and internet purchases that you got to watch out for I use a debit card, and have one credit card in case of an emergency

This is literally the first time I've heard of "chip-and-PIN". Someone please explain the difference between that and what we normally use?

I want to go my entire life without getting a credit card in the first place

[QUOTE=Swilly;43836207]Its actually funny because we don't have chip & pin, but our consumer protection laws and systems are much better than European ones. I'd have to look it up but I think in England, you have to actually literally fax or mail a letter to get your card replaced and cancelled.[/QUOTE] Wrong. You can do that all over the phone / internet. I have actually had my card replaced after I misplaced it by clicking a button on my banks website. I also had my pin reset the same way after I forgot it. [editline]8th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Keegs;43836422]Yeah chip and pin is just a generic name for most forms of contactless payment in cards.[/QUOTE] No its not, its the common name for an EMV standard. [editline]8th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Reagy;43836573]Only times I've ever seen chip and pin fail for customers is when their card is badly damage, its wet, there is something on the chip or the muppet put the card in the wrong way. I've never had to do a magnetic card transaction ever in my life. Not for myself or other customers. [B]Magnetic strip is just so insecure[/B] and so is contactless payments, I'd rather we all just stuck to chip and pin because then no random can just scan your card and copy the details which can be done for both contactless and magnetic.[/QUOTE] You have hit on the other benefit of this system, no one apart from the customer is ever meant to touch the card. In theory that pretty much kills card cloning.

[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;43837729]I want to go my entire life without getting a credit card in the first place[/QUOTE] Isn't that really tough in US due to credit scores and all that crap?

[QUOTE=areolop;43837413]Without credit you cant get loans. Shit, if you have bad credit (or no credit) you may be turned away from jobs because they look at that stuff to show responsibility. I try to use debit for everything possible unless its a big purchase, then I use credit to build my score.[/QUOTE] so wait, unless you live on someone else's money and build up a good credit rating you can't get a job? that sounds pretty fucked up

[QUOTE=itisjuly;43838127]Isn't that really tough in US due to credit scores and all that crap?[/QUOTE] "Really tough?" Not at all.

[QUOTE=IceWarrior98;43836216]Canada does. At least my Credit Card does. Problem is, hardly any stores use chip/pin forcing us to use the mag-strip instead.[/QUOTE] I dunno where you are in Canada but I haven't seen a place that [I]doesn't [/I]use the chip-and-pin in looong time here in Vancouver. I don't even remember when the last time I swiped my card was.

[QUOTE=viperfan7;43836432]And is also ridiculously insecure, I can EASILY clone your credit card using just my phone, walk past you, put my phone near your pocket with your wallet in it, copy any NFC data received, and then output it again at time of payment, and you would NEVER know until you notice your bill being unusually high, and if someone was smart about it, you wouldn't even notice that[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=viperfan7;43836780]Don't even need to steal the card[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Cakebatyr;43837662]You think your card reader terminals are shit? Mine doesn't even [b]prompt[/b] you to complete the transaction. Its also stupidly insecure, what good is a chip reader if its connected by an unprotected telephone cord? I got a spare terminal from an old machine, and swapped them in under five seconds in front of my boss to demonstrate the issue too.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=gonedead0;43837724]This is literally the first time I've heard of "chip-and-PIN". Someone please explain the difference between that and what we normally use?[/QUOTE] With chip-and-PIN (and secure NFC payment), the card contains a small computer (usually running Java, like SIM cards) that does cryptographic signing of the transaction on your behalf. What this means is that the actual secret never is transmitted: You can't clone the card whatsoever without physically damaging it (and even that would be difficult). For this reason skimming is impossible in most of the EU, the magnet strip can still be copied but you can't use it anywhere around here to take cash out of an account. Listening in on the phone cord does nothing, with strong cryptography you could publish the data somewhere on the Internet and not a single person would be able to make a fraudulent transaction. The only weak point are compromised tills or pin entry devices, but that only would work while the card is inserted. Better card terminals first have you confirm the transaction amount, which means a hacked till could not replace a transaction. Unless the terminal is completely compromised you have to enter the PIN for every single transaction. You can obviously still copy the account details from photographs and use that for online shopping, which is why the card verification number is on the back in some cases. In others the details are just extremely hard to read like on my debit card :v: The magnet strip is equivalent to entering the account number manually, there's no signing involved and anyone can copy the data. [editline]8th February 2014[/editline] The same applies to online banking btw, if you get a card reader with PIN-pad and display, you're completely protected against viruses on your computer. Mobile-TANs are almost as secure as that, as long as you don't get a virus on your phone [I]and[/I] computer (or have the login details stolen differently prior to the attack).