The real reason Fighting is Magic got C&D is not because of money but because Hasbro can't control them. Fighting is Magic could misrepresent their brand which makes nobody with money happy.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;39540836]
[editline]10th February 2013[/editline]
Yeah, Black Mesa Source should have just quit since they were working with Valve's copyrights.[/QUOTE]
Except the difference is Black mesa made their own interpretations of the models and art from Half Life 1 and created their own artstyle for the original game. They also had permission from valve to make the project.
Example of HL1 art vs. BM art vs. HL2 art
[t]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-H1dLZIAyhQk/UFlUX5Yx-LI/AAAAAAAAW6E/qA5avicbK1g/s1600/Black_Mesa_(PC)_08.jpg[/t]
MLP vs. MLP:Fighting
[t]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRqW79Jh1ONQZtqka0IR3o8ign8w5aAqyGeqfQiR6T3sBjzHVOz[/t]
[t]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/b13b58c5a3.jpg[/t]
Black Mesa takes a different approach to the HL1 and HL2 artstyle. The models are based on the same thing, but they look much different. The ponies in both games are based off horses, but they are both done the exact same.
Plus Black Mesa REQUIRED a valve original IP to function, so to play the interpretation, you had to own an original valve IP to play the game. They also had PERMISSION(or at least indifference) to make the game.
Edit:
PLUS, the effort they put into it is completely irrelevant to this whole issue. The "hard work" doesn't really affect copyright laws. You can work long and hard at copying something, but in the end, it's still a copy.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;39540949]So nobody should ever make fan games ever unless they get permission from the owner?[/QUOTE]
I'd say if you're really serious about it then asking the guy who owns the properties if he's okay with it isn't such a bad idea.
Wait
They weren't selling it
and they were drawing their own graphics
why did it get a C&D? Pretty sure that falls under fair use.
[QUOTE=phygon;39540991]Wait
They weren't selling it
and they were drawing their own graphics
why did it get a C&D? Pretty sure that falls under fair use.[/QUOTE]
A lot of C&Ds are for things that are actually fair use. However, the defendant has the burden of proof if they want to claim fair use, and most people can't afford the legal costs.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;39540949]So nobody should ever make fan games ever unless they get permission from the owner?[/QUOTE]
That's (like ThatSprite pointed out) a total strawman argument. I didn't say that at all.
[QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;39541035]A lot of C&Ds are for things that are actually fair use. However, the defendant has the burden of proof if they want to claim fair use, and most people can't afford the legal costs.
[/QUOTE]
Oh
That's actually really shitty
[QUOTE=BloodFox1222;39540970]I'd say if you're really serious about it then asking the guy who owns the properties if he's okay with it isn't such a bad idea.[/QUOTE]
Guess [url=http://www.pokemon-online.eu/]Pokemon Online[/url] should just give up now then.
[QUOTE=ThatSprite;39540946]Didn't it get pulled from EVO anyways?[/QUOTE]
Originally it was going to potentially be a main game at EVO under the "User Choice" title, which is a pretty big deal; getting put on the main stage, typically big pot bonuses, and streaming on the SRKEVO Twitch account.
Mr Wizard, the guy in charge of picking the main games, decided that, in order to stop the vote fraud that was rampant last year, the games would be voted on in the form of donations to Breast Cancer research.
Initially this game was one of the games being voted on, but after it quickly took lead and people started complaining because it was an unfinished indie game and there were a lot of suspiciously large donations coming in, Mr Wizard decided to pull it from the User Choice category and just put it in the Indie Showcase.
So yes it was pulled from what is officially "EVO", but it was still pretty much guaranteed a large side tournament.
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;39540886]No it's just that the older male audience of MLP is very pathetic and should be laughed at.[/QUOTE]
I don't like the show and a lot of the fanbase is shitty but that's a pretty bigoted opinion
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;39541061]Guess [url=http://www.pokemon-online.eu/]Pokemon Online[/url] should just give up now then.[/QUOTE]
Didn't that get C&D'd or am I thinking of a different pokemon online
[QUOTE=ThatSprite;39541089]Didn't that get C&D'd or am I thinking of a different pokemon online[/QUOTE]
Might have been one of the previous iterations.
But people keep trying it because it's fun. They have the talents and they want to do something fun with their favorite IPs. Put the two together and you have a fan game.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;39541061]Guess [url=http://www.pokemon-online.eu/]Pokemon Online[/url] should just give up now then.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you get why BMS was alright. Valve is fine with non-profit fan-games. Permission was more to be totally sure they wouldn't mind the HL1 plot and levels being used. Nintendo is just like Valve in that they realized it would be detrimental to their fanbase to kill projects that aren't causing actual financial or image harm to them.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;39541061]Guess [url=http://www.pokemon-online.eu/]Pokemon Online[/url] should just give up now then.[/QUOTE]
Pokemon online and Black Mesa are in completely different situations than Fighting is Magic, please stop bringing up games that are in a completely different boat.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;39541110]Might have been one of the previous iterations.
But people keep trying it because it's fun. They have the talents and they want to do something fun with their favorite IPs. Put the two together and you have a fan game.[/QUOTE]
Except the difference is that the bronies were make a fighting game based on a children's show which teaches kids about the complete opposite, a negative image for Hasbro to have "under their belt" when considering kids will find it online. Would you appreciate such a bad image being shown of your kids show and people thinking YOU made that?
[editline]10th February 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;39541127]Pokemon online and Black Mesa are in completely different situations than Fighting is Magic, please stop bringing up games that are in a completely different boat.[/QUOTE]
Basically this
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;39541127]Pokemon online and Black Mesa are in completely different situations than Fighting is Magic, please stop bringing up games that are in a completely different boat.[/QUOTE]
A different boat in that you support them? I can concede BMS, but by your arguments Pokemon Online should be shut down.
[QUOTE=phygon;39541086]I don't like the show and a lot of the fanbase is shitty but that's a pretty bigoted opinion[/QUOTE]
So be it.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;39541210]A different boat in that you support them? I can concede BMS, but by your arguments Pokemon Online should be shut down.[/QUOTE]
Pokemon - Battling pokemon against each other
Pokemon Online - Battling pokemon against each other
MLP - Friendship
MLP Fighting Game - Fighting each other
do you not see the difference between image that they would leave on the franchises here
[QUOTE=Primigenes;39539734]Hasn't this game been like in the making for 2 years?
If Hasbro was gonna do shit like this then they should have done it earlier. Cause now there's a bunch of pissed off people who invested a lot of their time into making a game.[/QUOTE]
Honestly this sentiment generally surprises me. Whenever you make something based of another IP, and even more so of another Live IP you always have to expecpt a C&D and even more so when you get more well known and even more so if you have semi commercial plans.
It's not entirely necessary to quash most of these projects since they never get far. But once they reach a certain stage virtually every single one of them will get.
It's like people refuse to learn.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;39541061]Guess [url=http://www.pokemon-online.eu/]Pokemon Online[/url] should just give up now then.[/QUOTE]
Pokemon online is in a unique situation, because it doesn't directly infringe on the IP itself or even content itself, but merely provides a framework in which the content can be played. In the same veinas fallout online and others.
As far as BM:S goes, valve has generally expressed a nonissue with noncommercial projects and has been directly in contact with the team for while.
[QUOTE=ThatSprite;39541227]Pokemon - Battling pokemon against each other
Pokemon Online - Battling pokemon against each other
MLP - Friendship
MLP Fighting Game - Fighting each other
do you not see the difference between image that they would leave on the franchises here[/QUOTE]
So to make a fan game, you have to do it in the creator's image. Talk about a buzz kill on creativity.
[QUOTE=ThatSprite;39541227]Pokemon - Battling pokemon against each other
Pokemon Online - Battling pokemon against each other
MLP - Friendship
MLP Fighting Game - Fighting each other
do you not see the difference between image that they would leave on the franchises here[/QUOTE]
Maybe companies should just send shit-tons of cease and desist orders to mugen character makers and porn artists then?
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;39541318]So to make a fan game, you have to do it in the creator's image. Talk about a buzz kill on creativity.[/QUOTE]
Hi meet bob he's the guy you might be talking about here
[T]http://drkatesview.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/straw_man.jpg[/T]
There's a fine line between "creator's image" and "insanely popular game that defeats the purpose of the show and will leave a hugely negative stain on our franchise's image if we don't do something about it"
[editline]10th February 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=deadoon;39541323]Maybe companies should just send shit-tons of cease and desist orders to mugen character makers and porn artists then?[/QUOTE]
Last time I checked quite a few of them do send C&Ds to pornography makers, I can name a good example if you want me to.
[QUOTE=deadoon;39541323]Maybe companies should just send shit-tons of cease and desist orders to mugen character makers and porn artists then?[/QUOTE]
They do send them to porn artists.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;39541318]So to make a fan game, you have to do it in the creator's image. Talk about a buzz kill on creativity.[/QUOTE]
You have to do it in a way that doesn't oppose their image. Having characters that are known for fighting fighting isn't an issue. Having characters that are known for loving, caring, and created as good role models for little girls and having them fight is an issue.
EDIT: Here's what Nintendo said about it: "[it matters] whether the expression in question socially diminishes the dignity or value of our intellectual properties or not."
[QUOTE=ThatSprite;39541338]Hi meet bob he's the guy you might be talking about here
There's a fine line between "creator's image" and "insanely popular game that defeats the purpose of the show and will leave a hugely negative stain on our franchise's image if we don't do something about it"
[editline]10th February 2013[/editline]
Last time I checked quite a few of them do send C&Ds to pornography makers[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;39541357]They do send them to porn artists.[/QUOTE]
Considering how much of it exists, they obviously don't send that many.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;39541318]So to make a fan game, you have to do it in the creator's image. Talk about a buzz kill on creativity.[/QUOTE]
No, you have to have explicit or implicit permission from the IP holder if you want to have faith that you will not be hammered by a cease and desist.
[QUOTE=deadoon;39541367]Considering how much of it exists, they obviously don't send that many.[/QUOTE]
a) single individuals are hard to track
b) most of the porn is semi under the radar
c) most of the porn is one off by a single person
[QUOTE=deadoon;39541367]Considering how much of it exists, they obviously don't send that many.[/QUOTE]
That's because there's such vast quantities of it out there it's almost impossible to cover every single nook and cranny. But only [B]one[/B] massively popular game growing in movement/fans at a very large rate is pretty easy for the suits to notice.
[QUOTE=deadoon;39541367]Considering how much of it exists, they obviously don't send that many.[/QUOTE]
It's like trying to drain the ocean with a bucket while another guy on the other side is dumping more water in. There's a ton of it out there, and most of it is done too anonymously for them to stop permanently. Only sites that have porn that very specifically uses their trademark for profit can be easily taken down by them.
I don't even give two fucks that MLP:FiM is a fighter about ponies
What I do give a fuck about is that it's so hilariously generic and has nothing to set it apart aside from other fighters. No tag / assist system like in MvC, P4A had it's Personas and burst gauge mechanics, etc. Even indie fighters like Touhou 12.3 have the spellcard mechanic and flying to spice it up. This has... nothing. Just punches, kicks and super moves that do damage and nothing else really.
[video=youtube;_YBZqWNnFOQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YBZqWNnFOQ[/video]
It also looks incredibly easy to have near-infinite combos in it that leave the opponent with very little health.
edit: That said it really fucking sucks to get slapped with a C&D and there was definitely lots of effort put into this even if it is generic. I bet they could rework it into something different if they tried or just outright release the latest version and let the community have at it.
As a fighting game fan that doesn't give two shits about mlp or the people hating on it, the animations looked pretty good, and it seemed pretty solid gameplay wise too, but hasbro has a history of being cunts if I remember right, and lauren faust or whatever her name is has already offered to make original characters for this game, making it completely bypass any bullshit hasbro wants to do.
[editline]10th February 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Joeyl10;39541466]
It also looks incredibly easy to have near-infinite combos in it that leave the opponent with very little health.[/QUOTE]
To be honest that sounds a ton like sfxtk/umvc3 :v:
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;39539879]The problem isn't that there's a free game about ponies, hasbro would probably like that
The problem is that it's a game about ponies that puts them in a violent situation that goes against what the creators want for the show. It's like taking a show like "care bears" and making them fight to the death. They want games about to show to reflect the show, not be about fighting.
Basically they just don't want their characters becoming famous for being in a game about fighting, because (surprise surprise) the show is meant for little girls to be educated about the importance of friendship or some shit, not for "bronies" who like fighting games. They don't want the intended audience going online looking for a MLP game and playing fighting is magic. Some parents would complain and Hasbro would end up in deep shit because no one could realise it was a fan work. [B]Besides, it's not they they made the game or anything, it is a "fighting game creator 200x" project that has taken up immense popularity. And no shit they are going to get sued for [U]taking art directly from the show[/U] and plastering onto a fighting game they call their own.[/B] Even if it's free.[/QUOTE]
I agree with just about everything you said, but that bolded statement couldn't be more wrong IMO. I don't think you realize how long they've been working on this and how much content they've actually made for it.
Yes it's made in a "fighting game creator 200x" type program, yes they're using characters owned by Hasbro based upon art assets that come from the show, but by no means are they effortlessly ripping content and "plastering" it into a fighting game. All of the sprites, animations, and stage art assets are created from scratch, they've created a large number of color palettes for each character, they've made multiple pieces of music specifically for the game, they have voice actors to record lines for them, they're creating sounds for the game, and to top it all off they're putting in a single player mode complete with custom AI. Hotline Miami was made in game maker, does that mean it was effortlessly hacked together? Fuck no, it's a great game regardless of its origins. And yes, the character design and level design and names and whatever else were taken from the show, but the devs have specifically avoided stealing assets directly and have been recreating them from the start.
I agree that Hasbro is perfectly within bounds to C&D this game for the reasons you stated, but for fuck's sake please don't marginalize the work that the devs have put into it.
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