Fewer drivers pick the stick: The increasingly rare manual - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Barcock;51184071] It's fun. Sorry you can't drive it.[/QUOTE] Truly the best argument for manual You can argue all day about automatics being inefficient, or heavier, or slower, or sluggish or whatever else but in the end you'll be incorrect because how far the tech has advanced- but the fact of the matter is, manuals are super goddamn fun

I'm afraid of automatics and new cars in general. I'm so used to driving old buckets that need a lot of gas and some force on gear stick/brakes that new cars just seem too delicate and sensitive. I spent like six months driving old rusty vans at work and one day my boss made me drive his fairly new automatic Mondeo. I was terrified. First time driving an automatic in like four years. I was so used to giving cars a lot of gas when starting to move and going on the brakes hard when stopping that I had to concentrate on not doing that all the way. Not to mention fighting the reflex to hit the non existent clutch pedal. I have an old Volvo 740GL myself and I want to keep it as long as I can.

No way I am ever driving a manual in such a traffic clusterfuck as my city

why are people upset over people liking manual, it's just a preference...

Sorta whats been said earlier. The tech has advanced that people will go on and on about how manual is still better citing things that are almost entirely subjective or very specific to certain cars that can't be applied broadly. The performance differential, cost of maintanence and so on is now very marginal. So really in america manual transmission are more for enthusiasts or people who want to have more fun when driving a car. If you're a commuter and your cars more of a tool even with some personality, theres not much of a reason to go for anything but automatic. Performance argument is almost negatable now and mostly falls on deaf ears for those who have cars as tools and arent an extension of their personality. Do you like cars and enjoy driving? Manual Do you like cars but not like super into them or just want something to work? Automatic. Most fall into the second category. Prices, cost of repair, rate of wear are all completely subjective and you can easily find cases where an automatic version of a car has less problems than the manual varient. You can also easily find cases where the opposite is true. Cost of repair fluctuates often and for some cars automatics can be cheaper to repair. Wear and tear is also heavily up to driving style at times and is also heavily influenced by it. MPG's again driving style. [editline]10th October 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=AK'z;51185152]why are people upset over people liking manual, it's just a preference...[/QUOTE] Manual drivers are often seen as the same as 'pc master race' type. So it's more of a retort to that. It's mostly all down to just if you want more fun from a car, or more utility now with technology. So its still a growing shitfest of people on both sides stroking their transmission cocks in superiority. Manuals often stroking harder and longer leaving autos to struggle to speed up and match them in response.

[QUOTE=AK'z;51185152]why are people upset over people liking manual, it's just a preference...[/QUOTE] Backlash to car enthusiasts insulting people who use automatic. Apparently the idea that some people just want to get from A to B with as little hassle as possible is beyond some people.

[QUOTE=SirKillsAlot;51184951]I've yet to drive an automatic that hasn't pissed me off with jerky shifts or how often it decides to change gears for no reason at all. There is no reason to downshift a gear if I slightly let off the gas on a flat road. I rue the day manuals are all but extinct. I guess the 2016 Corvette is the last sports car I will get to drive before everybody ditches them.[/QUOTE] This is more an issue with bad automatics than automatics in general. I was planning to buy a manual VW GTI, but I test-drove the automatic and was pleasantly surprised by how it felt. The DSG gearbox has no perceptible shifting, the engine just drops RPM with no discernible change in power. Similarly, CVTs don't change gears in the conventional sense at all, and get better mileage than their manual counterparts. [QUOTE=AK'z;51185152]why are people upset over people liking manual, it's just a preference...[/QUOTE] See, here's the thing- I like the tactile feel of driving manual. It's undeniably fun to actually be in control of your own vehicle and not just pushing a glorified go button. But it's not the 80s anymore and automatic transmissions have come a long ways, reducing or eliminating advantages like better fuel economy and significantly lower price that manuals used to have. If someone wants to buy a manual because they enjoy it, good on them, no further justification is needed. Yet these threads inevitably get filled with comments about how awful automatics are and how superior manual is, for pretty much spurious reasons. I'm not going to take my car onto a racetrack, the stop-and-go urban traffic I experience every day is pretty un-fun in a manual, and the automatic transmission for the car I wanted was surprisingly pleasant to drive, so I bought an automatic. It shouldn't have to be as divisive as politics, it's just a car.

I drive a manual and its the fucking worst for inner city driving or if you gotta keep stopping. By the end of my day my foot has a clutch imprint

[QUOTE=catbarf;51185298]But it's not the 80s anymore and automatic transmissions have come a long ways, reducing or eliminating advantages like better fuel economy and significantly lower price that manuals used to have. If someone wants to buy a manual because they enjoy it, good on them, no further justification is needed. Yet these threads inevitably get filled with comments about how awful automatics are and how superior manual is, for pretty much spurious reasons. [/QUOTE] This is my main issue with these threads because people will flock to old ideas that really aren't that true anymore and attack automatic. Theres a growing trend now with a few famous racing drivers buying sports cars with automatics in them. Even they get shit on by these groups and they explain it by saying their job everyday is shifting and changing gears and its nice to have an automatic car to chill out with and not worry. the performance is still there and they still enjoy it but with no worries and with relaxation. I'm debating on buying a genesis coupe but i have minor experience with stick, im still debating on getting stick or automatic for it. Yeah itd be more fun but i also drive 50 minutes to work every day and most my job is driving over an entire county, i'm not sure id want to deal with that and it significantly pisses two of my friends off who lob insults at me for chosing a boring car, for limiting it and making a 3.8l v6 engine act like a 4 speed inline4 and im ruining the car. Yet even across the board the manual versions are shown to be literally a difference of .7 seconds in acceleration. I don't understand why i'm suddenly hitler for considering automatic.

[QUOTE=Viva;51185326]This is my main issue with these threads because people will flock to old ideas that really aren't that true anymore and attack automatic. Theres a growing trend now with a few famous racing drivers buying sports cars with automatics in them. Even they get shit on by these groups and they explain it by saying their job everyday is shifting and changing gears and its nice to have an automatic car to chill out with and not worry. the performance is still there and they still enjoy it but with no worries and with relaxation. I'm debating on buying a genesis coupe but i have minor experience with stick, im still debating on getting stick or automatic for it. Yeah itd be more fun but i also drive 50 minutes to work every day and most my job is driving over an entire county, i'm not sure id want to deal with that and it significantly pisses two of my friends off who lob insults at me for chosing a boring car, for limiting it and making a 3.8l v6 engine act like a 4 speed inline4 and im ruining the car. Yet even across the board the manual versions are shown to be literally a difference of .7 seconds in acceleration. I don't understand why i'm suddenly hitler for considering automatic.[/QUOTE] Well if it's a 50 minute drive to work and most of it's motorway I'm not sure it'll make much of a difference either way so you might just get a manual unless you're gonna be facing rush hour traffic often

[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;51185361]Well if it's a 50 minute drive to work and most of it's motorway I'm not sure it'll make much of a difference either way so you might just get a manual unless you're gonna be facing rush hour traffic often[/QUOTE] Philadelphia is where i live. I also work a county over which is mostly heavily hilled farm land but still densely populated.

I learned on a manual, and have a 6-speed Civic SI. I really enjoy driving it, and it's a treat to drive and sporty enough to be fun. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a modern automatic though, but it's just not nearly as engaging. Downside is my girlfriend doesn't know how to drive a manual, so I'm stuck driving unless we drive her car on trips. I'd like to teach her, but I really don't want my high mileage transmission abused during the learning process. In the US manuals are very rare, which is a shame. You have to get the performance version of most cars to be able to get a manual. [editline]11th October 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Viva;51185326]This is my main issue with these threads because people will flock to old ideas that really aren't that true anymore and attack automatic. Theres a growing trend now with a few famous racing drivers buying sports cars with automatics in them. Even they get shit on by these groups and they explain it by saying their job everyday is shifting and changing gears and its nice to have an automatic car to chill out with and not worry. the performance is still there and they still enjoy it but with no worries and with relaxation. I'm debating on buying a genesis coupe but i have minor experience with stick, im still debating on getting stick or automatic for it. Yeah itd be more fun but i also drive 50 minutes to work every day and most my job is driving over an entire county, i'm not sure id want to deal with that and it significantly pisses two of my friends off who lob insults at me for chosing a boring car, for limiting it and making a 3.8l v6 engine act like a 4 speed inline4 and im ruining the car. Yet even across the board the manual versions are shown to be literally a difference of .7 seconds in acceleration. I don't understand why i'm suddenly hitler for considering automatic.[/QUOTE] It's not just acceleration in a line, it's the benefit of being able to drive down curvy country roads, keeping the RPM's up and having immediate response coming out of corners, vs an automatic which can end up doing a lot more shifts as it doesn't know what you're coming up on. Paddle automatics I'm sure are much more engaging though.

I've used a manual since I started driving, so much so that it's become automatic to me I've driven automatics and they're also fine. Unless you get a Euro car which is calibrated to km/h and doesn't shift up at convenient speeds

Manuals are becoming more and more for enthusiasts rather than everyday drivers in the US. It's been that way for awhile. Your average consumer just wants a cheap and reliable vehicle that is easy to drive and that they don't have to think about much. Manuals require you to think about your driving, and as such, aren't as easy to drive for most. I have nothing against either of them (I'd actually love for my next car to be a manual), but the majority of consumers will head toward whatever is easiest to drive and whatever gets them from point to point without something going wrong, not whatever is the fastest or most fun to drive. If that was the case, we'd probably see a lot more manual sport coupes on the roads instead of automatic trucks, SUVs, and economy cars.

[QUOTE=Rahu X;51185417]Your average consumer just wants a cheap and reliable vehicle that is easy to drive and that they don't have to think about much. [B]Manuals require you to think about your driving[/B], and as such, aren't as easy to drive for most. [/QUOTE] Eeeh not really, it becomes muscle memory pretty fast.

[QUOTE=SuperDuprKyle;51184006]I have a stick and I fucking hate it. Going up hills is actually living hell, I actually fear for my life when I have to stop on a hill and the horror of rolling back and hitting the car behind me. It sucks balls. Also traffic is AWFUL[/QUOTE] This is what the handbrake is for. I drive a manual 1000 mi a week in traffic, with a performance clutch, I've never hated it.

[QUOTE=Hillo;51183892]when was that?[/QUOTE] Prior to the most advanced of today's automatics, a manual was THE way to get the most performance out of your car. Manufacturers design their cars for the typical driving of their customer base. There will always situations that individual drivers face that no manufacturer could plan for. Some people drive mostly on the streets, with stop signs and traffic lights to deal with. Some people spend most of their time on highway/freeway driving where no one stops. Your automatic has to handle both. It's not going to be as optimized as possible in either case, since it has to work in both cases. If you control the shifting then you will have the most optimized performance for your specific needs at that moment. These days with computer controlled everything in cars a case could be made that some automatics can outperform even a race car driver with a manual. Those are expensive cars though.

I still think the most fun I've ever had in a car was driving 4 hours to Peoria in a Mazda b2000 with bad synchros. Merging on to the interstate was a rush

[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;51184195]...Don't blame that on the car's transmission. Come to Europe and see if we're rolling back into each other's cars left and right. We're not. You fail the driving test if you let the car roll back. If you want to make it easy for yourself, use the handbrake, even if it isn't the "skilled" approach.[/QUOTE] The handbrake isn't always practical. In many American vehicles, my old Ford pickup included, there is no 'hand' brake. The parking brake is instead operated by an extra pedal far left of the pedal box, released by pulling on a control rod mounded at the top of that pedal assembly under the dash. It works great, and is a holdout from the days of bench seats and no center consoles where a handbrake just doesn't work. You can try to use the parking brake hill start trick in that thing, but honest to goodness? It's a right pain in the ass. Heel-and-toe, however, works AMAZINGLY well, and that's how I do hill starts in it. Also translates well to vehicles where the handbrake is non-functional, which is a plus on older cars regardless of how it's actuated as it's one of the first things to go and last to be fixed.

[QUOTE=Hillo;51184794]When I was 15 and only could ride 50cc holy shit scooters were the worst shit. Partly because I was 6' and partly because it's just more fun to have a clutch and gears so you can abuse the shit out of that 50cc you've got[/QUOTE] I'm 6'3, but my scooter is kind of large. Worst thing for me other than rain is the fact your typical driver in Auckland isn't hugely aware of their surroundings and tend to drive oversized cars. All it takes is one distracted driver or one impatient ass to run a red light.

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;51185538]Prior to the most advanced of today's automatics, a manual was THE way to get the most performance out of your car. Manufacturers design their cars for the typical driving of their customer base. There will always situations that individual drivers face that no manufacturer could plan for. Some people drive mostly on the streets, with stop signs and traffic lights to deal with. Some people spend most of their time on highway/freeway driving where no one stops. Your automatic has to handle both. It's not going to be as optimized as possible in either case, since it has to work in both cases. If you control the shifting then you will have the most optimized performance for your specific needs at that moment. [/QUOTE] I..can't do it

I don't find driving in traffic jams with a manual as difficult as I initially thought it would be, the worst is unpredictable drivers making abrupt actions forcing you into a dangerous situation. At that point, not only do you have to figure out how to avoid an imminent wreck, but how not to fuck up your clutch/transmission while doing it.

I learned to drive manual. It really keeps me more focused and I love the degree of control and feel I have over the car when driving one. That being said, there are times especially in insanely heavy traffic where being in an auto would have been wonderful.

I learnt how to drive in a manual but I got an auto license because I mostly do city driving in a Swift. I know how to drive one in an emergency at least.

My car does both, technically. I'm never going to use manual though because I'd rather just not bother with it when I live in an urban/suburban area and not somewhere with huge expanses of open road I could mess with it one.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;51184128]the elitism around manual driving has always astounded me heck it's literally even in the opening post[/QUOTE] dat 10-15% power loss in the torque converter though from an engineering standpoint autos are objectively worse in every way but convenience

[QUOTE=Hillo;51183892]when was that?[/QUOTE] Ferrari just recently said they will no longer offer manual transmission cars. The closest you'll get is a DCT with flappy paddles.

[QUOTE=Ridge;51185885]Ferrari just recently said they will no longer offer manual transmission cars. The closest you'll get is a DCT with flappy paddles.[/QUOTE] [quote]There was a time when manual transmissions were synonymous with performance cars[/quote] I quess my 91' rusty nissan was a performance car, had a 5 speed and all [editline]11th October 2016[/editline] and it cost like no money

who here knows how to use manual but still prefers auto, anyways?

[QUOTE=J!NX;51185932]who here knows how to use manual but still prefers auto, anyways?[/QUOTE] I prefer automatic but have a manual car because it's cheaper. It's fun sometimes but whe commuting from work I'd rather not bother with it.