Fewer drivers pick the stick: The increasingly rare manual - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Amplar;51185519]This is what the handbrake is for. I drive a manual 1000 mi a week in traffic, with a performance clutch, I've never hated it.[/QUOTE] No it's not the part of stopping at the light that is the problem. It's actually going into first gear when the light turns green on an incline where my worry comes in.

[QUOTE=SuperDuprKyle;51187621]No it's not the part of stopping at the light that is the problem. It's actually going into first gear when the light turns green on an incline where my worry comes in.[/QUOTE] And, like he said, the handbrake can be really useful if you're not yet familiar enough with your clutch's engagement point. When you're facing uphill, hold the handbrake with one hand, let your foot off the brake, hit the gas, release handbrake. You won't roll backward if you're holding the handbrake.

The only thing that would annoy me in a manual is when people would get up on my ass during stop and go on an incline, knowing that I was in a manual. But no worries, I would just pop it in neutral and open up the throttle, letting the long tube headers roar in excitement. If you can't stay off of my ass, you can't listen to your radio. People would usually stay back after that.

[QUOTE=Aetna;51187595]Due to being a smaller statistic, it's a guarantee your car will sell faster and for more than an auto because an enthusiast out there is going to already be looking for one.[/QUOTE] That's already happened to me more than once, I've had a few Subaru Legacy enthusiasts offer to buy my car for slightly more than it's currently worth. Most of the US market '05 Legacy 2.5GT wagons were ordered with the auto transmission. I believe total production numbers were around 3500, and roughly 1100 were ordered with a MT. Of those 1100 with a MT, only ~184 were ordered with a black paint job, so I definitely think it was a lucky find for me. It's still in excellent shape too, so I hope to find another Subie enthusiast to give it a good home once I'm ready to sell it.

you'll never take my stick shift civic away from me

What's even better is nowadays, that really small statistic of new, manual cars means really interesting manual cars. Boss sold the M3 and leased a 2016 340i, with a 6 speed manual that does some really cool shit. First time I went to drive it he didn't tell me anything about the car, and I attempted to rev-match while downshifting... but the car had already done it for me, it was so strange. Clutch in, downshift, go to release the clutch and the car automatically tossed itself up 800rpm in preparation for the shift. New technology can apply to manuals too, I think people are ignoring that entirely about this particular debate.

I love shifting gears and hearing the engine change it's tune in response. That's all what it holds for me, the feeling of response to my actions. It'd probably drive me nuts not having anything to operate and the car doing for me. I see how auto can have some use like dense traffic and driving when you're tired.

Driving autos is pretty chill. So chill I almost nodded off once.

[QUOTE=Dom Pyroshark;51187867]I love shifting gears and hearing the engine change it's tune in response. That's all what it holds for me, the feeling of response to my actions..[/QUOTE] Same here, I love the added feedback that comes with a MT vehicle. Once I sell off my Subaru I want to grab a Honda S2000, I've been able to drive one of those before and it was sooooo much fun. There's just something amazing about shifting through gears at such high RPMs, and then you factor in super tight handling and it's hard not to have a big stupid smile on your face. If you just enjoy driving for the sake of driving, the S2000 is a fuckin' ace machine. Even when they're bone stock they're just so much fun.

[QUOTE=Zorlok;51187923]Same here, I love the added feedback that comes with a MT vehicle. Once I sell off my Subaru I want to grab a Honda S2000, I've been able to drive one of those before and it was sooooo much fun. There's just something amazing about shifting through gears at such high RPMs, and then you factor in super tight handling and it's hard not to have a big stupid smile on your face. If you just enjoy driving for the sake of driving, the S2000 is a fuckin' ace machine. Even when they're bone stock they're just so much fun.[/QUOTE] Just so long as you don't mind rattles, rattles everywhere. I swear to god they just fuckin' rattle and there's nothing you can do about it. There are literally entire megathreads on S2K forums dedicated to hunting down rattles, and no one has completely done it successfully. It's worse with the AP1 too, which is sad because it has superior tuning (imo) than the AP2.

So it's obvious now that us enthusiasts will defend our preference til the day we die, and while we may be biased, arrogant, and obsessed, you can't say we have zero valid points. There are benefits to manuals, even today. I want to speak up a bit in regards to convenience. Convenience also has its trade offs, and I want to make that point in a more general sense. TC, stability control, automatic shifting, electronic everything, automatic AC and heating, they all have their wonderful, comfortable place. But they tend to add complexity, and in some cases take away from our economy. For sure, modern autos are getting great gas mileage. But pretty much by default, the transmissions are heavier. More so when manufacturers add in more gears over the standard 5 or 6 (I know 4 speeds are common too). Weight is a killer of efficiency. So while an auto might still get great mileage, it probably could get even better with less weight. This is probably a bigger problem in the US, because there is a HUGE amount of trucks and SUVs sold, many that are not needed for their intended hauling/cargo purposes. Seriously, we sell so many big cars it's nuts to think about. Good from say sales and domestic made standpoints, bad from economy standpoints. Even roofracks are economy suckers, more so than many people realize. And while your CVT may net you more MPGs, you most likely loose out reliability. You really can't repair a CVT, you usually just have to replace the whole unit. In less miles than one would expect (like 60,000 I've heard). This is where manuals tend to be a winner in terms of economy, because they are simple, they tend to be more reliable for longer, and when you do need to service them, it will cost less. I think that MPGs are not everything, and I think there are still issues tied in with wanting convenience, even if convenience is very valid point. Even the most laymen of drivers should be given the knowledge that if they think MPGs are the only key to efficiency, they aren't seeing the whole picture, from an engineering standpoint, and even an environmental standpoint. Sure, I can get in to the whole alternative fuels debate, and even how it's hypocritical to argue over efficiency when enthusiasts tend to drive/race in the least efficient manner. At least enthusiasts are a niche, and eliminating us only contributes to a small amount of efficiency, in comparison to the amount of truck/SUV drivers that haul nothing. But I think my point remains, manuals still offer economy benefits for servicing, cost to buy the car (varies of course), and reliability. They probably would even help a certain percentage of inattentive drivers become less inattentive. I'm a strong believer manuals make people better at driving. Driving, when you think about it, has a degree of philosophy behind it. There's no one way to do it right. That's why people argue a lot more over it than some people would expect. That's why we can argue even convenience has its downsides.

[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;51187103]What kind of ideal utopia do you live in[/QUOTE] I have SEPTA? Its not the best, and there are moment where I want to strangle certain bus drivers but if I want to get places outside of the city, they have bus lines, the Highspeed line and the trolley that all lead to tons of buses that travel back and forth around there.

[QUOTE=Aetna;51188087]Just so long as you don't mind rattles, rattles everywhere. I swear to god they just fuckin' rattle and there's nothing you can do about it. There are literally entire megathreads on S2K forums dedicated to hunting down rattles, and no one has completely done it successfully. It's worse with the AP1 too, which is sad because it has superior tuning (imo) than the AP2.[/QUOTE] Yeah that's one of the downsides, although that often comes along with Subaru ownership too. I've got a mystery rattle in my dashboard that comes and goes. No idea what causes it, it's not dependent on temperature or road conditions. Every few weeks it will be there for a couple days and then it goes away. I've even popped off a few dash components and tightened things down if they felt loose, but it seems to be a Subaru quirk. The S2K I drove was an AP2, so I can't comment on how that feels in comparison to the AP1. Either way though it was such a fun ride.

I prefer autos for a shit ton of reasons, but the most important one is I'm not having to fucking with the car actively so I can talk with people I'm driving with. It's always felt like a hassle and it always will.

[QUOTE=Dr.C;51184190]Ask any racer, any real racer. It don't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning's winning.[/QUOTE] While you are right, I'd say theres a difference in winning by an inch or a mile. If you win by a mile, its because you ARE better, or your machine is faster. If you win only by an inch, you're not that good in comparison to the guy behind you/your machine isn't that much more powerful, if more powerful at all. It's something I discuss with my friends a lot aswell. Yes you win/lose, but by how much? THAT is the real kicker to me.

[QUOTE=ghghop;51188286]I prefer autos for a shit ton of reasons, but the most important one is I'm not having to fucking with the car actively so I can talk with people I'm driving with. It's always felt like a hassle and it always will.[/QUOTE] Wait, what? What does driving a manual have to do with talking?

Honestly if you've driven manual once you can't really talk about how inconvenient it is.

I understand about just wanting to get from point A to point B. I know not everyone enjoys driving. I do. I'll drive just to drive. That being the case, a manual transmission will always be best for me. But what if you want someone else to be able to drive your car? It's a 99% chance they won't know how to drive anything other than an automatic, so there you go. This is why self driving cars are the future, most people simply don't care about driving. Ferrari and Porsche and the rest switch to their dual clutch automatics because no one is buying manuals. By no one I mean the vast majority of their customer base. Porsche sells SUVs more than anything else. Let that sink in for a minute. The idea that there is this large pool of drivers out there who want manuals is false. There are far more posers out there buying Porsches than there are driving enthusiasts.

[QUOTE=TestECull;51184256] You want good gas mileage? Fun to drive? Harder to steal? More engaging to drive? Less likely to get borrowed? Simpler? Cheaper to buy? Cheaper to maintain? Longer lived? More reliable? More in your control, something that's increasingly slipping away with every new computer added? You ever wonder what it's like to have a backup method to start your own car when the battery or starter doesn't do the trick? Get the stick. Unless you've lost the use of a leg or an arm there is no compelling argument in favor of the auto. [/QUOTE] modern autos are just as efficient as a manual fmvb autos are more fun than manuals only if the thief is a mong only if the car is slow as hell to begin with only if your friends are mongs only if you're a mong not true anymore was never true was never true was never true made up problem bump starting is nice I'll give you that and the autos in cvpis are miserable because they're made by ford who has never had a single good transmission in their lineup except stuff made by tremec, borg-warner, or new process

I'm an enthusiast and even so you have to muster up a lot of courage to take the plunge and get a manual if you dont have the opportunity to learn in someone elses vehicle. It's a pretty big commitment to something that only serves as additional engagement and satisfaction from driving when you have no experience with it.

[QUOTE=J!NX;51185932]who here knows how to use manual but still prefers auto, anyways?[/QUOTE] I've owned a lot of manual trans cars, but they're a nightmare to daily around here

Only cool people drive stick. :cool:

[QUOTE=Thaard;51189503]Only cool people drive stick. :cool:[/QUOTE] and Russians, all sorts of uncool Russians

[QUOTE=Thaard;51189503]Only cool people drive stick. :cool:[/QUOTE] By that definition most europeans are cool and I can tell you that's not true

For "I want to drive from point a to b" scenarios I can see why most people prefer auto. If you drive cars for fun then a manual may offer a more in depth level of driver interaction, and if like to do performance/economy tuning then manual transmissions offer a lot more to work with. That's how I see it anyways, it's not hard to see why automatic is really the standard in most places. It's less hassle for people who don't want the hassle.

This happens every single thread there's a news post about this. Yes, everyone gets it - manuals are better, they are more fun cheaper more efficient more reliable if you don't get one you suck blah blah blah. And then the opposite occurs - I drive an auto because I'm in the city, I drive an auto because it's easier, I drive an auto because less worry because more efficient more reliable blah blah blah. Here's the truth - 90% of the world [I]doesn't give a shit.[/I] I don't mean about cars being appliances, because that's also true and becoming more true every day - I'm talking about whether you drive a manual or automatic. There does't need to be an argument. We can go back and forth forever about supposed 'facts' when in reality it literally makes no difference, reguardless of what you think. Just let people drive whatever they want. So what if you think manuals are more fun? So what if you think autos are just more fuel efficient? Let people drive whatever they want, because in 50 years, 80% of cars will be self-driving electric cars, 16% will be auto non-self-driving cars and 4% will be manuals in the hands of enthusiasts who will still be happy. It's inevitable and no one can't stop it, so why bother belittling people in the first place when the outcome is already decided?

I don't think anyone in the thread has belittled anyone though. If anything it's been a really casual, friendly conversation.

[QUOTE=Aetna;51190583]I don't think anyone in the thread has belittled anyone though. If anything it's been a really casual, friendly conversation.[/QUOTE] Maybe not belittling but. [QUOTE=Barcock;51184071]Ten years ago: circlejerk about driving a manual Today: circlejerk about the circlejerk about driving a manual It's fun. Sorry you can't drive it.[/QUOTE] Is very condescending.

I've been driving for five years now, and my company cars are 50/50 auto and manual, so I've had a lot of experience with both types. I have to say I greatly prefer the manual. I just love to shift gears man, I still get the "Hell yeah, it's like I'm in a movie" feeling when I'm rapidly shifting gears. Sure it's childish, but it's one of those little things in life, you know? -edit And also I do like the feeling of having more personal control over the car I'm driving. And my dad always taught me that driving with the lowest effective gear is more fuel efficient, so I always feel like I'm wasting just a little more money when driving an auto with a high RPM

The problem with automatics and fuel efficiency or performance is the automatic is reactionary. It can't read your mind so it has to wait to see what you are doing, then try to guess what gear you need to be in. Only then does it shift. This is not true when you shift your own gears. You shift the gears, which means that shift happens right when you need it with no waiting. You will always be in the 'right' gear, whether it's right for fuel economy or for performance since it's your brain with a direct connection to the transmission.