Pakistani mob storms police station and beats to death man accused of burning Koran - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Aidan_088;38943428]Heat can damage paper; it can be burnt. Is that subjective? No. Society/civilisation has not always existed and will likely not exist forever, how much value you think is inherit in society is subjective, the fact that it is possible to damage it is objective. Civilisation can be defined as "the social process whereby societies achieve an advanced stage of development and organization". Moral objectivity can slow or even entirely halt this process as moral objectivity encourages dogmatic belief in concepts without evidence and is therefore in fundamental opposition to the scientific process, which allows free thought and the question of existing social norms etc. which would facilitate the advance of civilisation. You may subjectively think that civilisation is valueless or meaningless but that does to mean it is incapable of being damaged.[/QUOTE] So you're admitting that the people in the OP are objectively uncivilized?

It just completely stupid that something like this still keeps happening in such a reach age of today. Lack of education and complete stupidity is to blame...

It's so weird reading about these kind of things and people going "those fucking Muslims...". My grandparents are Muslims, they pray 5 times a day, go to the mosque, don't eat during Ramadan and all that and you can't find kinder, more respectful people than those two. I don't know where I'm going with this, it's just annoying that these barbarians get this kind of press and then the rest of the world think all Muslims are like that.

Yep, that's the Islam. Religion of [B]peace[/B].

religion of RIP in pieces

I hate people who try to smash religion in your face.

[QUOTE=aliensoldier;38944434]Yep, that's the Islam. Religion of [B]peace[/B].[/QUOTE] Yeah,the religion is stupid,but you're fucking wrong when you think that this was due to the religion itself,Islam may have some logical flaws but the religion has values and guidelines centered to peace and respect to others.

[QUOTE=Aidan_088;38939838]What is and is not a fitting punishment for any crime is subjective. You think it's inappropriate and obviously those who killed him thought it was appropriate. The belief in Moral objectivity is far more damaging to society than any individual act of violence, no matter how deplorable it may seems to us.[/QUOTE] Read The Moral Landscape. You might find it interesting.

[QUOTE=eddy-tt-;38939728]They should be trialled and handed out a sentence at least if they believe that so much.[/QUOTE] Implying Pakistan's Government isn't rotten to the core, I could have paid the judge 80,000 rupees to have him sentenced to death I think you're all forgetting this is the country that has people firing mortars and rockets blowing up airports, think it just happened last week or so. Every night here I'm hearing gunfire. Boy, I wish these people would get it the fuck together. Whats better is how people correlate this to Islam, as if it's not just cultural ignorance.

[QUOTE=Tarver;38944839][...]but you're fucking wrong when you think that this was due to the religion itself[...][/QUOTE] [quote]A mob in Pakistan has stormed a police station and beaten to death a Muslim man accused of desecrating the Koran.[/quote] I dunno, would a christ kill someone because he burned the bible?

[QUOTE=aliensoldier;38945160]I dunno, would a christ kill someone because he burned the bible?[/QUOTE] I dunno man, Christ got pretty pissed when the Romans turned a church into a fair type place where thieves were selling stolen shit.

[QUOTE=aliensoldier;38945160]I dunno, would a christ kill someone because he burned the bible?[/QUOTE] If this were to happen anywhere else in the world,Muslims would just ignore them and carry on with their day.The reason why Christians don't kill people for burning the Bible is because the majority are living in first world countries with decent education,ever see the reason why the majority of Islamic extremism happens in the Middle East? Because the Middle East is a shithole savaged by decades of war and corruption.

[QUOTE=Tarver;38945228]If this were to happen anywhere else in the world,Muslims would just ignore them and carry on with their day.The reason why Christians don't kill people for burning the Bible is because the majority are living in first world countries with decent education,ever see the reason why the majority of Islamic extremism happens in the Middle East? Because the Middle East is a shithole savaged by decades of war and corruption.[/QUOTE] Exactly, it's not because they're muslims, it's because they have piss weak education and their governments don't really take a particularly great interest in the day to day lives of their people.

[QUOTE=Aidan_088;38939838]What is and is not a fitting punishment for any crime is subjective. You think it's inappropriate and obviously those who killed him thought it was appropriate. The belief in Moral objectivity is far more damaging to society than any individual act of violence, no matter how deplorable it may seems to us.[/QUOTE] Just like how in Nazi Germany it was Illegal to be a Jew, all punishment is subjective right?

Welcome to pakistan Where the cops are beyond incompetent, where burning a book gets you murdered and where being a woman equals being the dirt on the street I'd like to see the people that talk about "morally justified" after they would be forced to live in that country. Methinks their opinion would change in a few weeks

[QUOTE=Aidan_088;38939694]Civilisation is in the eye of the beholder; they see the burning of scared texts going unpunished as uncivilised.[/QUOTE] Civilized is a verb, it's an actual stage of social development where we can forgo "primal" urges such as mindless violence in place of diplomacy. There was no diplomacy here, only murder.

i still don't understand these kind of responese, because within islam it clearly states that the [B]only[/B] proper way to dispose of a quran (as getting it dirty or damaged is very bad) is to destroy it with fire i mean of course there is also the [I]sentiment[/I] behind someone outside of the faith burning a quran as a statement, but like shit they could have pooped on it or something and that would be even worse

[QUOTE=Tarver;38945228]If this were to happen anywhere else in the world,Muslims would just ignore them and carry on with their day.The reason why Christians don't kill people for burning the Bible is because the majority are living in first world countries with decent education,ever see the reason why the majority of Islamic extremism happens in the Middle East? Because the Middle East is a shithole savaged by decades of war and corruption.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;38945274]Exactly, it's not because they're muslims, it's because they have piss weak education and their governments don't really take a particularly great interest in the day to day lives of their people.[/QUOTE] Woah, woah, woah. Pakistan [I]isn't[/I] the Middle-East. It's in Asia. And generalizing a whole region is quite ignorant. Not all countries in the Middle-East are barbaric. Afghanistan is a shithole right now, and Iraq sort of is, due to the whole war, but places like Qatar, Kuwait, Dubai, Bahrain, Lebanon, Egypt etc. They're not [I]that[/I] bad. You'll have the odd case here and there, but generally those countries are pretty decent. And Gulf Arab countries tend to be a lot more stable than - say - countries like Egypt / Libya / Lebanon. I didn't mention Saudi Arabia, because imo it's a pretty abysmal place. [editline]23rd December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Tea;38945624]i still don't understand these kind of responese, because within islam it clearly states that the [B]only[/B] proper way to dispose of a quran (as getting it dirty or damaged is very bad) is to destroy it with fire[/QUOTE] Yeah, burning it is generally considered one way to dispose of a Quran (throwing it in the sea is also another debated way). The other way is to donate it to a place of worship. The guy was Muslim, so I don't know why he got killed for burning it. Again, it's just the people of the place are uneducated. That's the main reason why.

^ don't get me started on saudi arabia, it's pretty much a stable Afghanistan that happens to be america's buttbuddy

[QUOTE=loopoo;38945651]Woah, woah, woah. Pakistan [I]isn't[/I] the Middle-East. It's in Asia. And generalizing a whole region is quite ignorant. Not all countries in the Middle-East are barbaric. Afghanistan is a shithole right now, and Iraq sort of is, due to the whole war, but places like Qatar, Kuwait, Dubai, Bahrain, Lebanon, Egypt etc. They're not [I]that[/I] bad. You'll have the odd case here and there, but generally those countries are pretty decent. And Gulf Arab countries tend to be a lot more stable than - say - countries like Egypt / Libya / Lebanon. I didn't mention Saudi Arabia, because imo it's a pretty abysmal place.[/QUOTE] You're right,sorry for the quick generalization.

seriously pakistan, stop embarrassing the islamic world and get your shit in the 21st century

[QUOTE=Mon;38945822]seriously pakistan, stop embarrassing the islamic world and get your shit in the 21st century[/QUOTE] Because every time we get a good Prime minister, well they get assassinated by some General.

[QUOTE=loopoo;38945651]Woah, woah, woah. Pakistan [I]isn't[/I] the Middle-East. It's in Asia. And generalizing a whole region is quite ignorant. Not all countries in the Middle-East are barbaric. Afghanistan is a shithole right now, and Iraq sort of is, due to the whole war, but places like Qatar, Kuwait, Dubai, Bahrain, Lebanon, Egypt etc. They're not [I]that[/I] bad. You'll have the odd case here and there, but generally those countries are pretty decent. And Gulf Arab countries tend to be a lot more stable than - say - countries like Egypt / Libya / Lebanon. I didn't mention Saudi Arabia, because imo it's a pretty abysmal place. [editline]23rd December 2012[/editline] Yeah, burning it is generally considered one way to dispose of a Quran (throwing it in the sea is also another debated way). The other way is to donate it to a place of worship. The guy was Muslim, so I don't know why he got killed for burning it. Again, it's just the people of the place are uneducated. That's the main reason why.[/QUOTE] Dude I'm not saying that Pakistan is a middle eastern nation, I'm saying that if this shit is capable of happening then it's a shit nation, regardless of geographical location or the major religions in the country.

[QUOTE=Tarver;38945228][...]ever see the reason why the majority of Islamic extremism happens in the Middle East? Because the Middle East is a shithole savaged by decades of war and corruption.[/QUOTE] Well, that's a good point I guess. Every religion has its stupid extremists, but still it's stupid to call Islam the "religion of peace" as long as this shit is going on...

[QUOTE=loopoo;38945651]Woah, woah, woah. Pakistan [I]isn't[/I] the Middle-East. It's in Asia. And generalizing a whole region is quite ignorant. Not all countries in the Middle-East are barbaric. Afghanistan is a shithole right now, and Iraq sort of is, due to the whole war, but places like Qatar, Kuwait, Dubai, Bahrain, Lebanon, Egypt etc. They're not [I]that[/I] bad. You'll have the odd case here and there, but generally those countries are pretty decent. And Gulf Arab countries tend to be a lot more stable than - say - countries like Egypt / Libya / Lebanon. I didn't mention Saudi Arabia, because imo it's a pretty abysmal place. [/QUOTE] This might be slightly off topic, but can you explain to me the whole issue of apostasy according to Islam? Most of the countries you listed still have a death penalty for it.

[QUOTE=Tureis;38951268]This might be slightly off topic, but can you explain to me the whole issue of apostasy according to Islam? Most of the countries you listed still have a death penalty for it.[/QUOTE] Apostasy is a big deal in Islam. Supposedly, you're meant to be disowned and - in some cases - killed. It's pretty fucking savage. But in this day and age? As long as you're not an idiot about it, going around and telling everyone you've renounced your religion, you'll be fine. It all depends, there's so many variables. But I know if I turned around and told my parents I don't believe in Islam, they wouldn't disown me or give me up to the police. It's usually other people that do that (nosey neighbours, people who don't like you etc). So you just have to be smart about it. But yeah, apostasy in Islam is usually dealt with quite harshly. Family will disown you (if you're from an exceedingly devout family), and you can end up being killed for it as well. But - like I said, those cases are rare in this day and age. And it's also stated in the Quran that an apostate must be given three days to change their mind and apologize, and return to Islam. If, after those three days, they haven't, then you'll end up being punished. [editline]24th December 2012[/editline] It's basically the same with any religion, to be quite honest. You always have the extremists, no matter the religion. Extremist Christians can be just as bad as extremist Muslims. It's just Muslims get a lot more press, and most Muslim countries are pretty dire places in regards to political stability, level of education, etc etc.

[QUOTE=loopoo;38951315]As long as you're not an idiot about it, going around and telling everyone you've renounced your religion, you'll be fine.[/QUOTE] that doesn't sound very reassuring tbh

[QUOTE=Turnips5;38951433]that doesn't sound very reassuring tbh[/QUOTE] Just telling it how it is :v:

[QUOTE=loopoo;38951453]Just telling it how it is :v:[/QUOTE] yeah, so I figured. like, I'm not the type who likes to go around screaming how atheist I am, but it'd be horrible to have to keep it on the down low constantly for fear of retribution ...buuut this isn't much different from conditions in some parts of the USA, except with christianity. though disowning is probably more likely than being actually murdered, it still happens stupidly often. not something for a country to be proud of, by any stretch.

To be honest, I'm an agnostic atheist and I'm fine not telling people back home (in the Middle-East) what my personal beliefs are. I don't really find it horrible keeping it to myself. And like I said, you get 3 days to say "I was wrong, I am a Muslim" and you'll be let off the hook lol, you've gotta be one stubborn son-of-a-bitch to get yourself killed over it.