Georgia courthouse shooter had bombs, assault rifle, sheriff says - Polidicks

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45033675]A bunch of militia men showed up at a dudes ranch over the fact that the feds were taking his cattle because he didn't pay taxes. Do you really think they wouldn't shoot someone who's coming to take their weaponry?[/QUOTE] only some loony diehards but they'll either get themselves killed or arrested.

[QUOTE=w00tf1zh;45026831]My country (Sweden) has banned guns for private owners. So it is technically viable, and it didn't increase the number of people having guns. To top it off; there are no shootings here. Maybe one every 20 years or so... [B]So if we can do it everyone can![/B][/QUOTE] I am literally at a loss for words at your incredible stupidity

[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;45033666]As much as I don't want to get involved, I really dislike this particular argument. I mean, if it's a case of either banning the sale of guns or completely rebuilding society and how it operates essentially from the ground up, which is what it would take to get rid of corruption and oligarchy and to bring social equality, I know which one of the two options is quicker and way, way easier to do. Lets face it, society isn't going to be reformed to the extent that it would need to be to stop psychopaths from developing any time soon.[/QUOTE] if you have ever spent time in the US you would understand that its simply not viable or a good idea at all to ban guns. if there was an easy answer we would have already done it.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45034049]But why would you want to make a bunch of paper criminals anyway? The people who'd be affected by firearms legislation aren't out to harm anyone anyway. The people who do want to harm others will keep on doing what they do.[/QUOTE] The size of the firearm black-market is only proportional to the size of the civilian market.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;45034106]The size of the firearm black-market is only proportional to the size of the civilian market.[/QUOTE] So you'd be okay with confiscating legally acquired and owned property from millions of people that have committed no crimes whatsoever?

Not exactly, NoDachi.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45034144]The guns aren't just going to go away over night.[/QUOTE] They don't have to. You can't fix anything overnight, and that goes for poverty, healthcare or any other things you suggested. [editline]8th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=jimhowl33t;45034152]So you'd be okay with confiscating legally acquired and owned property from millions of people that have committed no crimes whatsoever?[/QUOTE] A slave owner could have said this hundreds of years ago.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;45034206]A slave owner could have said this hundreds of years ago.[/QUOTE] Because poking holes into paper and the occasional deer while following all the proper legal procedures and safety laws is exactly the same as imprisoning and forcing people to work, lmao

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45034223]The difference being a slave is a human being with thoughts and feelings, and a firearm is none of those things. So it's not exactly comparable now is it?[/QUOTE] The entire crux of his argument was with legality and possession. Completely comparable with anything that was once legally possessed. Not to mention it was the exact same attitude of slave owners lol

[QUOTE=NoDachi;45034271]His entire crux of his argument was with legality and possession. Completely comparable with anything legally possessed.[/QUOTE] My argument was with declaring people criminals just because they own something, rather because they used said something to actually hurt someone. But hey, who needs "innocent until proven guilty" when the people getting needlessy punished disagree with you, right?

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45034293]Again? Why guns? Why not poverty and healthcare? More people die from poverty and shitty healthcare than by gunshot; and it'd be legitimate change as opposed to "gunz are banned, all of you are criminals now".[/QUOTE] Why not guns as well? You act like other countries don't have poverty or poor healthcare yet magically don't have massive homicide and regular spree-murders. The only difference is access to firearms, so yes, controlling the availability of firearms is also important.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;45034305]Why not guns as well? You act like other countries don't have poverty or poor healthcare yet magically don't have massive homicide and regular spree-murders. The only difference is access to firearms, so yes, controlling the availability of firearms is also important.[/QUOTE] Meanwhile in a vast chunk of Europe, gun laws are not nearly as strict as anti-gunners would like people to think, yet we don't have nearly as many gun crimes as the US. Whoa gee, wonder why

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;45034342]Meanwhile in a vast chunk of Europe, gun laws are not nearly as strict as anti-gunners would like people to think, yet we don't have nearly as many gun crimes as the US. Whoa gee, wonder why[/QUOTE] Because the availability of firearms is incredibly low still. We don't have a massive arms industry in europe that produces so many firearms that "One million go missing every year" Unlike america.

Got proof of that buddy?

[url]http://www.examiner.com/article/a-2011-atf-internal-report-confirms-1-million-guns-go-missing-each-year[/url] plus 8,000 'vanish' yearly straight from the factories themselves [url]http://www.thewire.com/national/2011/09/least-16000-guns-have-gone-missing-factories-2009/42069/[/url]

[QUOTE=NoDachi;45034206]A slave owner could have said this hundreds of years ago.[/QUOTE] As much as the anti-gun people who think that leaving a shotgun in a wheelchair will cause it to roll away to kill the nearest baby would like to dispute this fact: firearms are not sentient living things, they're inanimate devices that require an external force to do anything beyond simply existing. They are not comparable to human beings, their ownership by civilians is not comparable to the systematic cruelty and society supported oppression that was slavery.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;45034388]As much as the anti-gun people who think that leaving a shotgun in a wheelchair will cause it to roll away to kill the nearest baby would like to dispute this fact: firearms are not sentient living things, they're inanimate devices that require an external force to do anything beyond simply existing. They are not comparable to human beings, their ownership by civilians is not comparable to the systematic cruelty and society supported oppression that was slavery.[/QUOTE] Thats exactly my point. Muh property and muh legality is never a defense when you need to make changes.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;45034358]Because the availability of firearms is incredibly low still.[/QUOTE] Wot? Legal gun markets here are always well-stocked and the prices are not that different from those in the US. All it takes (here in pizzaland, at least) is a basic license and a 10-minute chat with your local doctor to own almost everything shooty under the sun. [QUOTE]We don't have a massive arms industry in europe that produces so many firearms that "One million go missing every year" Unlike america.[/QUOTE] FN, H&K, Benelli, Beretta, and so on produce and sell shittons of firearms. And that's not counting the massive quantities of off-Europe imports from the US, Russia, China and so on. Civilian gun markets in Europe are very much active, mate.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45034375]And the gangs and criminals that make the "one million go missing" will be crippled or die out outright if you work towards eliminating poverty and shit healthcare.[/QUOTE] lmao and you say reducing the amount of firearms is fantastical?

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;45034396]Wot? Legal gun markets here are always well-stocked and the prices are not that different from those in the US. All it takes (here in pizzaland, at least) is a basic license and a 10-minute chat with your local doctor to own almost everything shooty under the sun. FN, H&K, Benelli, Beretta, and so on produce and sell shittons of firearms. And that's not counting the massive quantities of off-Europe imports from the US, Russia, China and so on. Civilian gun markets in Europe are very much active, mate.[/QUOTE] Its a fraction of the size and far far more well regulated and controlled.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45034403]They are when the changes you're looking to make are going to be fucking pathetic and completely ineffective.[/QUOTE] like your purposed change to eliminate poverty in the US? lmao

[QUOTE=NoDachi;45034394]Muh property and muh legality is never a defense when you need to make changes.[/QUOTE] Targeting innocents in the name of muh safety and muh children isn't, either

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45034416]Why join a gang when your education is proper, you can trust the authorities, you know that even if you fuck up, wealth-fare will keep you on your feet?[/QUOTE] Why need to own a firearm if this is true as well?

[QUOTE=NoDachi;45034406]Its a fraction of the size and far far more well regulated and controlled.[/QUOTE] It's still bloody huge. And yes, it's better regulated even without the need to ban or confiscate firearms from civilians.

the changes you're looking to make are going to be fucking pathetic and completely ineffective [editline]8th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=jimhowl33t;45034436]It's still bloody huge. And yes, it's better regulated even without the need to ban or confiscate firearms from civilians.[/QUOTE] I never asked for a blanket ban or confiscation [editline]8th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=ilikecorn;45034437]Because there are legitimate reasons to own a firearm that don't include killing people?[/QUOTE] but your so called legitimate reason enables someone's not so legitimate reason too you're still part of the problem

There's no use to banning guns in a country where the term "gun culture" is already an actual thing. It's a lost cause by now. In this regard, Americans have only themselves to blame.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;45034417]like your purposed change to eliminate poverty in the US? lmao[/QUOTE] Are you saying we shouldn't try to eliminate or at least reduce poverty? Yeah, you're right. I'd be too hard and complex while a gun ban would temporarily fix a symptom and make the people think you're doing something useful. Gun grabber logic, ahoy!

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45034454]Just like chicago's handgun ban. Just like california's "assault weapons" ban, just like new york's "safe act", just like the 1994 federal "assault weapons ban" California has a 10 day waiting period, secondary background check, and limit of 1 handgun every 30 days. And it still didn't stop that guy from shooting up the sandwich shop. Why? Because we have such a fucktwisted healthcare system that it's actually illegal in most cases for the doctors to share healthcare information with the police. Gun control in the US has a famous history of not fucking working, probably because the people who listen to the law aren't looking to break the law.[/QUOTE] [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1399606[/url] state by state bans don't work for obvious reasons and isn't a real argument

[QUOTE=NoDachi;45034438]I never asked for a blanket ban or confiscation[/QUOTE] Yet you ridicule those who'd protest in such an event. And then retort with stuff like this: [QUOTE]but your so called legitimate reason enables someone's not so legitimate reason too you're still part of the problem[/QUOTE] Where you [B]heavily imply[/B] that civilian gun ownership is a problem by itself. And still never say what you'd do regarding gun laws.

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;45034470]Are you saying we shouldn't try to eliminate or at least reduce poverty?[/QUOTE] nope are you saying that access to firearms isn't a problem? At all? [editline]8th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=jimhowl33t;45034503]Where you [B]heavily imply[/B] that civilian gun ownership is a problem by itself.[/QUOTE] It is?