U.S. rating likely to be downgraded again: Merrill - Polidicks

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;32930964]Oh god, we might go from AA+ to... to... [I]AA.[/I][/QUOTE] I am frantically trying to find that Futurama clip where Dr. Wernstrom gave Farnsworth the lowest grade known to man: An A minus [B][I]minus![/I][/B]

[QUOTE=Kopimi;32931001]Nobody holds Obama accountable, you all just act like Obama is still a shining knight of freedom and fairness Republicans are fucking horrific, democrats are just as bad when it comes to the deals and payoffs that have huge effects on not only America, but the entire world. People always act like everything Obama does that is disagreeable is a mistake, but everything the Republicans do is a deliberate fuckup Obama makes his choices and acts on them just like the Republicans, his fuckups shouldn't be taken lighter just because people are unwilling to accept the fact that [b]he's shit[/b] Infinitely better than McCain would have EVER been, but he, like any politician, is SHIT[/QUOTE] Okay, let's look at this a different way then. I don't hold Obama on some kind of pedestal, he's reneged on way too many things for me to solidly support him, but you have to remember that the alternative is much, much worse. Sure, Democrats don't come through on a lot of things and Obama specifically has been a flounder, but not voting gives the GOP a better shot at victory and voting for a third party candidate with this first-past-the-post electoral system is pointless. I'd love for the status quo to change, and that's why I'm trying to participate in my local protests as much as I can so that campaign finance reform can come through and we can hopefully stop the corruption. I don't believe it's fair to generalize all politicians as shit, and for this I always find myself looking to Bernie Sanders. But yes, do go on and tell me how "shit" of a senator he is. As for not specifically holding him accountable, well I'll do that right now. He fucked up in not getting rid of the PATRIOT Act, he fucked up in not letting the Bush Tax Cuts expire, and he fucked up in compromising too much on healthcare reform. Maybe he legitimately believed in those decisions maybe not, if it seems like I assume too much it's because I hope that isn't what he believes in and right now there's no safe alternative. My main point here is that no matter how you slice it, Democrats and Republicans are just not the same, even at the most basic level. Are there specific Democrats who are just as bad as specific Republicans, certainly. However, on the whole I don't see Democrats trying to stop minorities from voting with voter ID laws, I don't see Democrats trying to stop women from getting abortions, and I don't see Democrats trying to make the poverty-stricken people in this country out to be the perpetrators of this recession.

Sorry if I ever come off as unfair when talking about Obama, I just feel like wherever I go, people are still trying to make excuses for the fact that he's [b]just another politician[/b]. I would much rather have him as president than McCain, I just hate seeing people pretend he's just made a handful of innocent mistakes and everything else is the GOP's fault, when in reality, everyone is fucking horrific, but Obama gets a free pass because people are still riding his campaign of yes we can bullshit propaganda. He's the lesser of two evils, but still a terrible president

While the Democrats certainly aren't perfect, they are MUCH better than the Republicans. The Republicans are the main reason the US is in a shit hole right now. Obama 2012, and vote out ALL Republicans. [editline]23rd October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Kopimi;32931606]He's the lesser of two evils, but still a terrible president[/QUOTE] That is one of the dumbest statements I have ever heard in my entire life. WHY is he a "terrible" president?

[QUOTE=Bones85;32931765]While the Democrats certainly aren't perfect, they are MUCH better than the Republicans. The Republicans are the main reason the US is in a shit hole right now. Obama 2012, and vote out ALL Republicans.[/QUOTE] Ah I thought it was the fact that politicians on both sides are completely bought out, and because the system is corrupt to its core, and because we let a private bank control our entire economy, and because our government (More specifically Obama) is backing private banks' bets with taxpayer money, so that when they lose [b]our money[/b] that we store in the bank, our taxes go to repay the bank so they don't lose any money Must have forgotten that it was all the Republicans' fault

[QUOTE=Kopimi;32931606] He's the lesser of two evils, but still a terrible president[/QUOTE] This is why I say there should be multiple parties that each have relatively equal power. Politics would work a lot better if we had to choose the lesser of 8 evils that had already been filtered out by the party nomination process. The alternative, no parties, isn't feasible since advocacy groups would just snowball into de facto parties.

[QUOTE=Hidole555;32931948]This is why I say there should be multiple parties that each have relatively equal power. Politics would work a lot better if we had to choose the lesser of 8 evils that had already been filtered out by the party nomination process. The alternative, no parties, isn't feasible since advocacy groups would just snowball into de facto parties.[/QUOTE] I can't remember which comedian said it, but on the topic of the two party system in America: "If I go to a restaurant and the waiter says 'Hello sir, would you like the bowl of piss or the shit sandwich', I say, 'No thanks, I'll wait for the ice cream'"

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;32927423]With the amount of people that are protesting right now, I doubt the republicans have that big of a shot. All of their "Front runners" and "Top tiers" are religious nut jobs, or idiots who failed economics class, and ron paul. I don't think they have a very good shot.[/QUOTE] Young people are the least likely to vote by far. American voter turnout is one of the worst in the free world too. Republicans also love spamming votes, many minorities (who are 90%+ Democrat) vote much less than non-minorities. I know it's sad, but we may have Herman Cain as the next president if Obama can't pull off a good last year and a fantastic debate with the GOP candidate.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;32931945]Ah I thought it was the fact that politicians on both sides are completely bought out, and because the system is corrupt to its core, and because we let a private bank control our entire economy, and because our government (More specifically Obama) is backing private banks' bets with taxpayer money, so that when they lose [b]our money[/b] that we store in the bank, our taxes go to repay the bank so they don't lose any money Must have forgotten that it was all the Republicans' fault[/QUOTE] Someone who gets it. there is way too much obama love here. why? i have no idea. i don't hate the guy, but at least i recognize that the minute a politician steps into washington, they have corporate interests. politicians don't get elected otherwise, that campaign money comes from somewhere.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;32931001]As bad as the Republicans are, your buddy Obama has done a great job of helping the Fed and private banks destroy the country A fun reference guide for those who think the destruction of the economy is an accident/caused entirely by Republicans [video=youtube;N_XtXhiekQk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_XtXhiekQk[/video] Love this vid because Gerald Celente can be seen in the background :D [editline]23rd October 2011[/editline] Nobody holds Obama accountable, you all just act like Obama is still a shining knight of freedom and fairness Republicans are fucking horrific, democrats are just as bad when it comes to the deals and payoffs that have huge effects on not only America, but the entire world. People always act like everything Obama does that is disagreeable is a mistake, but everything the Republicans do is a deliberate fuckup Obama makes his choices and acts on them just like the Republicans, his fuckups shouldn't be taken lighter just because people are unwilling to accept the fact that [b]he's shit[/b] Infinitely better than McCain would have EVER been, but he, like any politician, is SHIT[/QUOTE] There's a good book I think you need to read about Obama's self-destructive habits as a politician, which stems from his life background. He's an excellent man but tends to try and compromise way too much because of the life he's led.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;32931945]Ah I thought it was the fact that politicians on both sides are completely bought out, and because the system is corrupt to its core, and because we let a private bank control our entire economy, and because our government (More specifically Obama) is backing private banks' bets with taxpayer money, so that when they lose [b]our money[/b] that we store in the bank, our taxes go to repay the bank so they don't lose any money Must have forgotten that it was all the Republicans' fault[/QUOTE] Look, I can't speak for other Democrats, and I've already said that Obama has done his share of things wrong. I won't call them 'mistakes', but instead 'bad decisions'. You have to at least admit that the GOP is quantifiably worse.

[QUOTE=ewitwins;32932264]There's a good book I think you need to read about Obama's self-destructive habits as a politician, which stems from his life background. He's an excellent man but tends to try and compromise way too much because of the life he's led.[/QUOTE] "The only good Presidents nowadays are the ones that are assassinated when they do too much good" Sorry, but no. Once again, you're excusing Obama's terrible politics and policies as "oh he gave in to that darn GOP too much :(" [b]Stop[/b] Stop making excuses, just cope with the fact that he's a terrible president, like anyone else. He's the lesser of two evils, people need to stop stroking him, pretending there's still a chance that he's a "good guy" [QUOTE=Megafanx13;32932385]Look, I can't speak for other Democrats, and I've already said that Obama has done his share of things wrong. I won't call them 'mistakes', but instead 'bad decisions'. You have to at least admit that the GOP is quantifiably worse.[/QUOTE] Personally I disagree on almost every issue with the GOP, but I'm sick of people using the GOP as an excuse for Obama's shortcomings. And even though you say Obama has "done his share of things wrong", that's still an issue. Nobody is really critical of Obama, you guys just admit that he "messes up", rather than the fact that [b]he does not have your best interests at mind[/b]. Obama is another bought out politician, just like the rest of them (Save for Ron Paul). Obama's campaign was largely funded by Wall Street, and you guys seriously think he's going to change things? "Well it was a mistake to accept money from Wall Street I guess.." "Well it was a mistake to sign the Patriot Act and take even more of our rights away.." "Well it was a mistake for him to not act on his belief in marijuana decriminalization.." "Well it was a mistake for him to continue the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan even though those were [b]HUGE PARTS OF HIS CAMPAIGN[/b].." "Well it was a mistake for him to bail out the people who are destroying our country, and reaffirm that their bad bets are covered by US taxpayers.." [QUOTE=Zeke129;32932517]Again with the Ron Paul Look at Ron Paul's views for once He's a standard republican[/QUOTE] I'm not arguing for "Ron Paul 2012", I'm just pointing out that the one politician you all hate so much is one of the only ones that hasn't been bought out

[QUOTE=Kopimi;32932481] Obama is another bought out politician, just like the rest of them (Save for Ron Paul).[/QUOTE] Again with the Ron Paul Look at Ron Paul's views for once He's a standard republican

[QUOTE=Kopimi;32932481]Personally I disagree on almost every issue with the GOP, but I'm sick of people using the GOP as an excuse for Obama's shortcomings. And even though you say Obama has "done his share of things wrong", that's still an issue. Nobody is really critical of Obama, you guys just admit that he "messes up", rather than the fact that [b]he does not have your best interests at mind[/b].[/QUOTE] I'm fine with being critical of Obama, I have no problem with that, he needs that kind of pressure to get proper shit done and not be an asshat. However, what I don't like is this sense of equivalence between Republicans and Democrats, because regardless of whatever Obama does, you can't just go and say "well obviously they're the same", in the same way that I wouldn't think you can look at John Boehner and say "well obviously he and Ron Paul are the same, same party". When it comes to criticism, I don't share the sort of vitriol that involves saying things like "Republicans should be tried for treason" or "They're sub-human war criminals", so I can't really match that on Obama in any way other than what I say: He's made a lot of bad decisions, and his views on things like gay marriage are on-the-fence bullshit. I'm not using the GOP as an excuse for the poor choices and moves Obama's made, but it's disingenuous to label both parties the same just because of what their leaders do. [editline]23rd October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeke129;32932517]Again with the Ron Paul Look at Ron Paul's views for once He's a standard republican[/QUOTE] but zeke, he wants to end the federal reserve and end the wars! Never mind the fact that he also wants to lower taxes even more, get rid of all welfare programs for the poor, and a myriad of other Libertarian plans that amount to little more than verbal diarrhea.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32932556]I'm fine with being critical of Obama, I have no problem with that, he needs that kind of pressure to get proper shit done and not be an asshat. However, what I don't like is this sense of equivalence between Republicans and Democrats, because regardless of whatever Obama does, you can't just go and say "well obviously they're the same", in the same way that I wouldn't think you can look at John Boehner and say "well obviously he and Ron Paul are the same, same party". When it comes to criticism, I don't share the sort of vitriol that involves saying things like "Republicans should be tried for treason" or "They're sub-human war criminals", so I can't really match that on Obama in any way other than what I say: He's made a lot of bad decisions, and his views on things like gay marriage are on-the-fence bullshit. I'm not using the GOP as an excuse for the poor choices and moves Obama's made, but it's disingenuous to label both parties the same just because of what their leaders do.[/QUOTE] Ah ok, sorry I wasn't trying to label the democrats the same as republicans, as a party, the democrats have definitely been voting more in favor of progress than politics, and whether or not I agree with the politics and beliefs they are progressing towards, I'd be an idiot to not admit that the democrats have been working to actually change things, rather than just stagnate. I come off as really harsh on Obama, but really just because he's the biggest target. If there's one benefit to having a GOP president, it'll be getting a chance to rail on the same person for 4 years with most of you guys :v:

[QUOTE=Kopimi;32932612]Ah ok, sorry I wasn't trying to label the democrats the same as republicans, as a party, the democrats have definitely been voting more in favor of progress than politics, and whether or not I agree with the politics and beliefs they are progressing towards, I'd be an idiot to not admit that the democrats have been working to actually change things, rather than just stagnate. I come off as really harsh on Obama, but really just because he's the biggest target. If there's one benefit to having a GOP president, it'll be getting a chance to rail on the same person for 4 years with most of you guys :v:[/QUOTE] I suppose that's true.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;32926258]I honestly believe these credit agencies are being [U]extremely[/U] lenient with us over this. [b]We[/b] trashed the world's economy, and nearly avoided major damage to our nation multiple times, and they downgrade us by one point. If we were a restaurant, I can say we wouldn't keep our AAA rating, or even a AA.[/QUOTE] I'm assuming by "we" you don't mean the people, but corporations and irresponsible government control.

[QUOTE=Hidole555;32931948]This is why I say there should be multiple parties that each have relatively equal power. Politics would work a lot better if we had to choose the lesser of 8 evils that had already been filtered out by the party nomination process. The alternative, no parties, isn't feasible since advocacy groups would just snowball into de facto parties.[/QUOTE] You should use our system! We'll license it to you for the low low price of a 100 billion dollars a year and you have to replace the stars on your flag with maple leafs. I think its a fair deal for a not (totally(I never said it was perfect)) shit political system.

[QUOTE=Virtanen;32929262]wasn't it like common sense that raising the debt ceiling was a ridiculously short-term solution?[/QUOTE] A ridiculously short-term solution that [URL="http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/federalbudgetprocess/a/US-Debt-Ceiling-History.htm"]we've been doing since 1919.[/URL] The debt ceiling always goes up. This credit rating wank is entirely political butthurt, nothing more.

To respond, there are instances where I don't just disagree, but hate what the President is doing, calling it bullshit(PATRIOT act, tax cuts extended). Lesser of two evils. Especially since the Republican nominees are crazy people, I mean, I wouldn't want Bachmann in the White House, but if a Republican that is actually sane, and will not piss in this country shows up and gets the nominee, I would vote for the Republican. Its just that now, the word Republican needs to have some TP support, or be fucking crazy. If the Republicans went back to 1860s Republicans, then something could be done. Hell, reanimate their best president(and most badass one), better than the pieces of shit we have today.