NATO chief says Wikileaks papers may endanger forces - Polidicks

[QUOTE=MrEndangered;24821666]Are you serious? Are you seriously serious? How old are you? Have you ever achieved any qualification in history? Do you understand how the world works? At all? What this NATO official is doing is called Propaganda. I'll bold it for you, to make it more obvious: [B]Propaganda[/B] Here is a handy link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda The Media; Including most newspapers & news channels. Freedom advocates and military organizations have been fighting a huge propaganda war [I]in the 21st century[/I] over wikileaks. Propaganda is more than 1930's posters telling people how beautiful the USSR is. He is fighting to get most newspapers readers on his side, and condemn wikileaks for publishing very important information regarding the Iraq War. [B]They want us to not care/support the day they go into his office[/B] and arrest him. [editline]04:13PM[/editline] That story was proven false ages ago.[/QUOTE] OH NO! THERES A CONSPIRACY AGAINST WIKILEAKS! What will we ever do?!? I believe the Wikileaks guy is for furthering the cause of transparency as much as I believe God killed the dinosaurs. He was trying to make a quick buck on a hot ticket item. His website wasn't getting enough traffic so he got a juicy scoop.

[QUOTE=imarawrus;24822166]OH NO! THERES A CONSPIRACY AGAINST WIKILEAKS! What will we ever do?!? I believe the Wikileaks guy is for furthering the cause of transparency as much as I believe God killed the dinosaurs. He was trying to make a quick buck on a hot ticket item. His website wasn't getting enough traffic so he got a juicy scoop.[/QUOTE] What.

I thought that whole rape thing got dropped?

Eh, we'll never hear of the people actually affected by the leaks because the news has too much of a hard on for the leaks themselves.

[QUOTE=spekter;24822221]I thought that whole rape thing got dropped?[/QUOTE] It was, it was pretty much a bullshit story. [editline]04:51PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Swilly;24822233]Eh, we'll never hear of the people actually affected by the leaks because the news has too much of a hard on for the leaks themselves.[/QUOTE] You shitting me? Alot of the mainstream newspapers are saying how horrible and evil it is. Most of the neutral or lefty papers don't really report on it much these days unless there is something new.

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;24820863]am i the only one noticing the rapist allegation[/QUOTE] Same, :wtc:. But he apparantly got warned before doing this, that stuff like that could happend (that he could be framed).

[QUOTE=MrEndangered;24822245] You shitting me? Alot of the mainstream newspapers are saying how horrible and evil it is. Most of the neutral or lefty papers don't really report on it much these days unless there is something new.[/QUOTE] I actually haven't heard anything about it since a week after its release, this is the first I've heard of anything about dangers. And no, there won't be any news coverage because the people who will end up dead are the informants. NO one gives a damn about the informants. I'm not saying it won't or will, I'm saying when if it does. The shit will hit the fan.

[QUOTE=Swilly;24822292]I'm not saying it won't or will, I'm saying when if it does. The shit will hit the fan.[/QUOTE] Well no, absolutely. But the fact is that it's been released for weeks now, and there have been no large scale attacks, unusually high amounts of body bags, and no serious repercussions. Like you say, the only ones truly at risk are Iraqi informants, but the US would probably have already pulled them all out before the documents were released (As there was an announcement beforehand)

[QUOTE=MrEndangered;24822348]Well no, absolutely. But the fact is that it's been released for weeks now, and there have been no large scale attacks, unusually high amounts of body bags, and no serious repercussions. Like you say, the only ones truly at risk are Iraqi informants, but the US would probably have already pulled them all out before the documents were released (As there was an announcement beforehand)[/QUOTE] Afghan, not Iraqi.

[QUOTE=Swilly;24822372]Afghan, not Iraqi.[/QUOTE] That's the one, thanks.

[QUOTE=imarawrus;24822166]OH NO! THERES A CONSPIRACY AGAINST WIKILEAKS! What will we ever do?!? I believe the Wikileaks guy is for furthering the cause of transparency as much as I believe God killed the dinosaurs. He was trying to make a quick buck on a hot ticket item. His website wasn't getting enough traffic so he got a juicy scoop.[/QUOTE] If anything, they're losing money. Their only source of money are donations and some backing from a few companies/organizations.

[QUOTE=MrEndangered;24821666]Are you serious? Are you seriously serious? How old are you? Have you ever achieved any qualification in history? Do you understand how the world works? At all? What this NATO official is doing is called Propaganda. I'll bold it for you, to make it more obvious: [B]Propaganda[/B] Here is a handy link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda The Media; Including most newspapers & news channels. Freedom advocates and military organizations have been fighting a huge propaganda war [I]in the 21st century[/I] over wikileaks. Propaganda is more than 1930's posters telling people how beautiful the USSR is. He is fighting to get most newspapers readers on his side, and condemn wikileaks for publishing very important information regarding the Iraq War. [B]They want us to not care/support the day they go into his office[/B] and arrest him.[/QUOTE] I know perfectly well what propaganda is. Additionally, I'm 21, I have GCSE's, AS and A Levels in History and I have a very good idea of how this world works. You, apparently, don't. Running around screaming "It's all lies! Lies! It's all propaganda!" holds as much credibility as running around screaming "It's all lies! Lies! It's all a conspiracy!". The propaganda card is easy and convenient to play - allowing you to not only dismiss the opponent's comments but also call into question their credibility. In this case, you have no proof to say that the NATO chief is lying or trying to make use of propaganda and all you are doing is making simple accusations without putting forward any form of evidence on the table explaining how the leaks are not putting military forces and operations at risk. If you genuinely don't understand how this can affect the war effort then you clearly don't have a good grasp of reality. It's simple logic - make sensitive information easily available for your enemy to access and it will hurt you in some way or another. It doesn't even have to be by leaking documents with top secret plans - just the gathering of lesser information will lead to a build up of the enemies intelligence. For example, taking a terrorist as an example, if he had access to information alluding to how he or she can access bomb making materials and equipment, possible targets, how to avoid detection, etc.

But the problem with that is there was no highly super secret 'win war' button in the documents. It's stupid just to say that 'all information counts', when effectively they are documents detailing the failures of the US military, not battle plans, names and hiding locations of troops or informants (Although some names are named, it's very unlikely this would be of any real use) These are highly secret documents intended not to be released to the general public, not hidden away from the Taliban. Any fool who desires to release detailed strategy to the public is a moron who needs to be shot. These however, are documents we need to know when we want to judge the value of our own military forces. The only thing of value these documents can bring, is more recruits and lower moral in our forces. But recruitment in the Taliban is still high, moral isn't great. So in effect, it's merely enhancing what is already there. To me, the risk of that is worth the reward of the general public knowing. Propaganda is indeed, something which is very difficult to prove. However, unlike conspiracies such as WTC, which are easy to disprove, we can't know for sure until another document leak (Or the CIA admitted it, like last time regarding Iraq). I'm merely calling it, and I await the day to be proven correct.

[QUOTE=MrEndangered;24826908]But the problem with that is there was no highly super secret 'win war' button in the documents. It's stupid just to say that 'all information counts', when effectively they are documents detailing the failures of the US military, not battle plans, names and hiding locations of troops or informants (Although [b]some names are named[/b], it's very unlikely this would be of any real use) [/QUOTE] I highlighted the important part. You are largely making an assumption that they could not be of any use - you aren't in the position to say whether or not a piece of information might prove useful to someone and to what extent. I also can't help but look back on that old argument over why these names aren't being censored by wikileaks.

[QUOTE=David29;24829427]I highlighted the important part. You are largely making an assumption that they could not be of any use - you aren't in the position to say whether or not a piece of information might prove useful to someone and to what extent.[/QUOTE] As far as I'm aware, names are being removed. But Assange asked the military to help censor the document further. Assange shouldn't let any name slip past, that we can agree with. I also don't like to assume that a military officer is being honest and open and kind and that this evil evil man is killing all our soldiers because he wouldn't do what every good little boy is told.

[QUOTE=FreeThinker;24802595]:frog:[/QUOTE] Lol, coming from the most biased poster on Facepunch I take this with a grain of salt

[QUOTE=MrEndangered;24826908][B]These are highly secret documents [/B]intended not to be released to the general public, not hidden away from the Taliban.[/QUOTE] No they're not. [editline]09:01AM[/editline] At least not in the sense that all Privates-and-higher-ranks have access to them.

[QUOTE=David29;24806774]Well, what I am alluding to is correct, isn't it? How much of the information that is leak is of any actual use to the public? I have taken a look at wikileaks and yet to see much that is of any interest. Yet it seems to be - by some people - perfectly acceptable to leak these documents that could put lives on the line... for what reason exactly?[/QUOTE] It's not for the public. Do you think the government should just be able to hide everything it wants to? It's so that people can keep tabs on the government. What the hell man.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24837180][b]It's not for the public.[/b] Do you think the government should just be able to hide everything it wants to? [b]It's so that people can keep tabs on the government.[/b] What the hell man.[/QUOTE] Compare and contrast the two bolded parts and reassess your statement. How can you say it's not for the public and then claim it is for the benefit of the people when, in a simple definition, 'public' = the people. Also, you have missed my point entirely. There is a distinct difference between a government hiding everything and a government withholding information in the interests of national security. Shall we state claiming Churchill was a dictator because he chose to withhold information that, if leaked, could cost lives in the Second World War? I think not.

[QUOTE=David29;24838165]Compare and contrast the two bolded parts and reassess your statement. How can you say it's not for the public and then claim it is for the benefit of the people when, in a simple definition, 'public' = the people. Also, you have missed my point entirely. There is a distinct difference between a government hiding everything and a government withholding information in the interests of national security. Shall we state claiming Churchill was a dictator because he chose to withhold information that, if leaked, could cost lives in the Second World War? I think not.[/QUOTE] All the information Churchill had was war plans (And perhaps a secret information of where to get more whiskey), nobody has ever said that war plans should be leaked, only abuses of military power. That kind of thing is what we want leaked, and that's what we got. Nothing. Is. Going. To. Happen.