[QUOTE=limulus54;17472216]it's kadaffy
according to nbc.[/QUOTE]
his name is Gawdhomo
[QUOTE=yawmwen;17517941]Yea, it should be level and the government should act to keep it level, not stack it towards a group of people based on their race. I'm all for keeping discrimination out, but the government shouldn't endorse discrimination of any sort, because like I just said that creates resentment. In the long run it can cause more harm than good for the minorities they were trying to help.[/QUOTE]
The point is it isn't level, without some priorities minorities are at a disadvantage
[editline]09:31PM[/editline]
In the long run it does good because it means more minorities in positions of power and better jobs which is needed to reduce discrimination
[QUOTE=James*;17518038]The point is it isn't level, without some priorities minorities are at a disadvantage[/QUOTE]
You don't give them advantages, you make it so that whites don't have their advantages anymore.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;17518079]You don't give them advantages, you make it so that whites don't have their advantages anymore.[/QUOTE]
That's basically the same thing
[QUOTE=James*;17518038]
In the long run it does good because it means more minorities in positions of power and better jobs which is needed to reduce discrimination[/QUOTE]
It doesn't matter who is in power, it only matter what the people think, and if a huge chunk hold (stronger than currently) resent and racist beliefs against minorities then the people in power can't do anything. A government [i]always[/i] has to have a vast majority of support in order to do anything.
[editline]08:35PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=James*;17518097]That's basically the same thing[/QUOTE]
No because one is raising a side, the other is lowering a side. I don't think Whites and Blacks and Mexicans should have their own individual advantages, they should all have no advantage except the advantage they give themselves with their intellect and willpower.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;17518115]It doesn't matter who is in power, it only matter what the people think, and if a huge chunk hold (stronger than currently) resent and racist beliefs against minorities then the people in power can't do anything. A government [i]always[/i] has to have a vast majority of support in order to do anything.[/QUOTE]
If minorities hold better positions in society it changes attitudes
The argument that black people can't achieve anything for example kinda falls flat with a black president in power
[editline]09:41PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;17518115]No because one is raising a side, the other is lowering a side. I don't think Whites and Blacks and Mexicans should have their own individual advantages, they should all have no advantage except the advantage they give themselves with their intellect and willpower.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but their intellect and willpower doesn't count for much if they're looked over because of their race
[QUOTE=James*;17518172]If minorities hold better positions in society it changes attitudes
The argument that black people can't achieve anything for example kinda falls flat with a black president in power
[/QUOTE]
Yea but as far as I can tell he got their on his own skills and intellect, not because someone gave him a stacked playing field. He leveled the playing field by getting there on his own not with help.
The argument black people can't achieve anything becomes stronger when blacks are given advantages that make it so even when a black person isn't as skilled as a white he gets preference. It says that they have to be given handouts otherwise they won't be able to do anything.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;17516721]Don't tell me about Native American Reservations being poor, I literally live 10 minutes from 2 different ones. I know that it is poor, and it can be a shitty place to live.
The question isn't about money though. You don't need a lot of money to go to College, it's all about applying for as many grants, scholarships, and as much financial aid as possible.
My family is below the poverty line as well and we were able to send my sister to college. It's not easy, by far, but it's possible and anyone can do it if they do it right.
So why should someone be able to get into college easier than me because of their race, even though I would say I'm around on par with a lot of minority families as far as money is concerned?
Why not, instead of giving minorities benefits, you make it easier for low income families to send kids to college all across the board? Give them more programs that give out free money for college if you fall into a certain income bracket. Try and spread awareness that there are these programs, so more people can take advantage of them and get a higher education.[/QUOTE]
yes, grants and scholarships that reward you for extra-curricular activities and great marks. if you live in a place where there is over [B]70% unemployment[/B] you cannot be expected to have the same opportunities to get these scholarships are more well off students. this is what you are not understanding, and it's very, very important.
once again though, this is based on averages. this is in itself ignoring much of the racism that is still a large influence in the us.
the thing is, what you're proposing is something that will help many minorities, so there are people who will oppose it from the start. in addition to this, it's going to be labelled "socialist" from the start, so good luck with your plan. obviously the first step is to remove some of the few things that help minorities get a chance at higher education, right?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;17518346]Yea but as far as I can tell he got their on his own skills and intellect, not because someone gave him a stacked playing field. He leveled the playing field by getting there on his own not with help.
The argument black people can't achieve anything becomes stronger when blacks are given advantages that make it so even when a black person isn't as skilled as a white he gets preference. It says that they have to be given handouts otherwise they won't be able to do anything.[/QUOTE]
Well people should see it as measures being taken to make amendments for past events that put minorities at a disadvantage
As TH89 said it's not a perfect solution, but not a whole lot else can be done. Stop pretending that everyone has an equal opportunity because it's just not true.
And Obama came from quite a well off background, which many minorities don't.
[QUOTE=Chippay;17518536]yes, grants and scholarships that reward you for extra-curricular activities and great marks. if you live in a place where there is over [B]70% unemployment[/B] you cannot be expected to have the same opportunities to get these scholarships are more well off students. this is what you are not understanding, and it's very, very important.
[/QUOTE]
No, you can get grants for nothing at all except the time it takes to write the application. There are thousands of scholarships that will give you money for the most random shit(living in a certain town, going to a certain school, having a family that's employed at a certain place). Financial Aid is also available to anyone who wants it, a lot of that is free money, and the rest is extremely low interest student loans that you pay back after you finish college.
[editline]09:05PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=James*;17518544]Well people should see it as measures being taken to make amendments for past events that put minorities at a disadvantage
[/QUOTE]
But that's not how too many people see it.
A lot of people cant afford college because they need to work to support their family, it's not always a case of just needing enough money to go
[QUOTE=James*;17518651]A lot of people cant afford college because they need to work to support their family, it's not always a case of just needing enough money to go[/QUOTE]
Then that's their choice not to go. You don't live in the same poverty trying to support your family when you can raise the standards for yourself, your kids, your family, and even your community by going to college.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;17518711]Then that's their choice not to go. You don't live in the same poverty trying to support your family when you can raise the standards for yourself, your kids, your family, and even your community by going to college.[/QUOTE]
A choice between letting their family starve and higher education isn't really a choice for most people
[QUOTE=James*;17518781]A choice between letting their family starve and higher education isn't really a choice for most people[/QUOTE]
They don't starve though, there are so many programs designed to help people who are low income it isn't even funny. Welfare for starters is enough to keep a family eating.
[QUOTE=TH89;17471284]I heard the Secretary-General gave Gadhafi a blowjob after his speech.[/QUOTE]
I heard it wasn't consensual.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;17518612]No, you can get grants for nothing at all except the time it takes to write the application. There are thousands of scholarships that will give you money for the most random shit(living in a certain town, going to a certain school, having a family that's employed at a certain place). Financial Aid is also available to anyone who wants it, a lot of that is free money, and the rest is extremely low interest student loans that you pay back after you finish college.
[/QUOTE]
comparatively few compared to the vast majority of scholarships. i'm honestly amazed you're not getting this, it's very simple.
but yeah, let's remove one of the few things that helps these people out. you're truly a humanitarian, mr. "native american"
[editline]09:22PM[/editline]
i'm still completely amazed you represented yourself as a native american to further a shitty argument
i mean how god damn desperate to be seen as right do you have to be to do that?
[QUOTE=Chippay;17518927]comparatively few compared to the vast majority of scholarships. i'm honestly amazed you're not getting this, it's very simple.
but yeah, let's remove one of the few things that helps these people out. you're truly a humanitarian, mr. "native american"
[editline]09:22PM[/editline]
i'm still completely amazed you represented yourself as a native american to further a shitty argument
i mean how god damn desperate to be seen as right do you have to be to do that?[/QUOTE]
Why should someone with the exact same conditions as me get preference?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;17518807]They don't starve though, there are so many programs designed to help people who are low income it isn't even funny. Welfare for starters is enough to keep a family eating.[/QUOTE]
People that poor generally live in areas with the crappier schools, the higher crime levels and other shit that lowers academic achievement
Even if they have potential, people in poverty will not be in a position as competitive as those who are more privileged
So even if they have the money to go, they will often be looked over for people from better schools who have better grades despite possibly not being more intelligent
And those in poverty tend to be ethnic minorities
[QUOTE=yawmwen;17518807]They don't starve though, there are so many programs designed to help people who are low income it isn't even funny. Welfare for starters is enough to keep a family eating.[/QUOTE]
you really have never left the suburbs, have you?
do you honestly think welfare is enough to provide shelter, food, school supplies, clothing, and everything else necessary simply to function?
[editline]09:26PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;17518962]Why should someone with the exact same conditions as me get preference?[/QUOTE]
holy fucking shit
ok, you have to be fucking with me right now
you have several thousand posts on an internet forum, you've made dozens of threads about video games, and countless other shit, and you still believe that you live in the "exact same conditions" as these people
see, this is why i don't take idiots seriously. they only disappoint me. i should have known once someone flat-out lied about their race to make a point
[editline]09:26PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=James*;17518976]People that poor generally live in areas with the crappier schools, the higher crime levels and other shit that lowers academic achievement
Even if they have potential, people in poverty will not be in a position as competitive as those who are more privileged
So even if they have the money to go, they will often be looked over for people from better schools who have better grades despite possibly not being more intelligent
And those in poverty tend to be ethnic minorities[/QUOTE]
don't even bother
[QUOTE=Chippay;17518985]you really have never left the suburbs, have you?
do you honestly think welfare is enough to provide shelter, food, school supplies, clothing, and everything else necessary simply to function?
[/QUOTE]
It is though, my sister is on welfare and she has a daughter. My friends mom is on welfare and pays for her and her 4 kids. It's enough.
[editline]09:35PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=James*;17518976]People that poor generally live in areas with the crappier schools, the higher crime levels and other shit that lowers academic achievement
Even if they have potential, people in poverty will not be in a position as competitive as those who are more privileged
So even if they have the money to go, they will often be looked over for people from better schools who have better grades despite possibly not being more intelligent
And those in poverty tend to be ethnic minorities[/QUOTE]
Yea, and even then it is possible to get good grades. It is complete bullshit that people who go to crappier schools get looked over. It's all about the work they do.
[editline]09:37PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Chippay;17518985]
you have several thousand posts on an internet forum, you've made dozens of threads about video games, and countless other shit, and you still believe that you live in the "exact same conditions" as these people
see, this is why i don't take idiots seriously. they only disappoint me. i should have known once someone flat-out lied about their race to make a point
[/QUOTE]
I never lied about my race, I'm 1/4th Lummy, 1/4th Greek, and the rest is a mix between German, English, Welsh, and a bunch of other European races.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;17519185]Yea, and even then it is possible to get good grades. It is complete bullshit that people who go to crappier schools get looked over. It's all about the work they do.[/QUOTE]
Why do private schools get better grades?
Is it because rich people are smarter?
[editline]10:42PM[/editline]
Look at any school league table and the private schools are always on top
[QUOTE=James*;17519306]Why do private schools get better grades?
Is it because rich people are smarter?
[editline]10:42PM[/editline]
Look at any school league table and the private schools are always on top[/QUOTE]
That doesn't make Colleges look over poor schools more. A lot of Colleges try and get people from poor neighborhoods, it makes them look good, and it helps out the community.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;17519490]That doesn't make Colleges look over poor schools more. A lot of Colleges try and get people from poor neighborhoods, it makes them look good, and it helps out the community.[/QUOTE]
So you're for giving people priority on the basis of geography but not race? Right.
Keep in mind the people from these poor neighbourhoods will often be minorities
[QUOTE=yawmwen;17518807]Welfare for starters is enough to keep a family eating.[/QUOTE]
hahah
[QUOTE=James*;17519306]Why do private schools get better grades?
Is it because rich people are smarter?
[editline]10:42PM[/editline]
Look at any school league table and the private schools are always on top[/QUOTE]
Maybe private schools are just better? Why else would public school teachers send their kids to private school in much higher proportion than the rest of the population?
Because they know the public system is broken.
[QUOTE={FP}ST;17523003]Maybe private schools are just better? Why else would public school teachers send their kids to private school in much higher proportion than the rest of the population?
Because they know the public system is broken.[/QUOTE]
Maybe kids who get sent to private schools grow up differently :downs:
[QUOTE={FP}ST;17523003]Maybe private schools are just better? Why else would public school teachers send their kids to private school in much higher proportion than the rest of the population?
Because they know the public system is broken.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the public system here is pretty shit.
[editline]01:33AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=TH89;17523031]Maybe kids who get sent to private schools grow up differently :downs:[/QUOTE]
Maybe. But the public system is still pretty fucked up.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;17472641]Why did we let socialists into the UN?[/QUOTE]
Hey, why did we let conservatives into the UN?
Oh yeah, post-war economic boom.
[QUOTE=Punjon;17523153]Hey, why did we let conservatives into the UN?
Oh yeah, post-war economic boom.[/QUOTE]
Conservatives in the UN? Impossible!
That would require some sort of miracle.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;17523298]Conservatives in the UN? Impossible!
That would require some sort of miracle.[/QUOTE]
how do you manage to be so out of touch with reality and still have a decent avatar
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