Hilary Clinton to Announce Presidential Bid - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Zeke129;47500108]Liberal War mongering death penalty supporter Pick one[/QUOTE] Or combine all three because labels don't fucking work.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;47511078]I'm probably going to vote Republican just for their stance toward Israel. It seems that in the USA it's a choice between raving far left politicians who want to make everything "politically correct" and uber religious right wing candidates that want to turn America into a Christian state.[/QUOTE] if we're making the assumption that the republicans want to make a backwards theocratic government, how can you say that the democrats are the more politically correct ones? "political correctness" as everyone seems to define it is preventing things that offend someone's sensibilities. how could you get closer to that idea than a country where evolution is treated like pseudoscience and a non-christian running for office is taken like weeing on the flag? i mean look at russia for instance, "political incorrectness" over there is as simple as being gay - even putin thinks so, and when the prime minister and all his buddies think the same thing and disagreeing becomes offensive, you know what that is don't you? america doesn't even have a left-wing to begin with so anything approaching what you guys call "political correctness" is mostly just gonna be milquetoast, sensible ideas on gays rights and stuff like that. you guys pretty much don't even get to use the term yet, how could it have taken over one whole half of your bipartisan system?

[QUOTE=Svinnik;47511078]I'm probably going to vote Republican just for their stance toward Israel. It seems that in the USA it's a choice between raving far left politicians who want to make everything "politically correct" and uber religious right wing candidates that want to turn America into a Christian state.[/QUOTE] You do realize that supporting Israel played a part in leading to 9/11, right? And why so many Islamic extremists hate the US so much? And that hates turns into wars, like Afghanistan and Iraq. For me, both the GOP and the Dems are crap. [editline]12th April 2015[/editline] But I guess I can say the GOP is a bit worse, which irritates me to no end knowing that they're trying to leech the "libertarian" vote like it's somehow part of their core beliefs.

Look on the bright side. She would be the first woman to the president of the United States if she won. Then again, probably not.

[QUOTE=BCell;47511614]Look on the bright side. She would be the first woman to the president of the United States if she won. Then again, probably not.[/QUOTE] That really isn't a good reason to vote her in.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47511589]You do realize that supporting Israel played a part in leading to 9/11, right? And why so many Islamic extremists hate the US so much? And that hates turns into wars, like Afghanistan and Iraq. For me, both the GOP and the Dems are crap. [editline]12th April 2015[/editline] But I guess I can say the GOP is a bit worse, which irritates me to no end knowing that they're trying to leech the "libertarian" vote like it's somehow part of their core beliefs.[/QUOTE] I identify as Israeli first, American second. If both parties suck, I'll choose the party that benefits my country of birth. Supporting Israel did lead to 9/11 but from what I remember, Osama and Al Qaeda were more upset about the US having troops in Saudi Arabia.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;47511692]I identify as Israeli first, American second. [/QUOTE] Personally, I don't think you should vote.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;47511692]I identify as Israeli first, American second. If both parties suck, I'll choose the party that benefits my country of birth. Supporting Israel did lead to 9/11 but from what I remember, Osama and Al Qaeda were more upset about the US having troops in Saudi Arabia.[/QUOTE] You live in the US. Living in the US and voting means you vote in the general interests of the US. Not of your home-country.

[QUOTE=Cone;47511530]if we're making the assumption that the republicans want to make a backwards theocratic government, how can you say that the democrats are the more politically correct ones? "political correctness" as everyone seems to define it is preventing things that offend someone's sensibilities. how could you get closer to that idea than a country where evolution is treated like pseudoscience and a non-christian running for office is taken like weeing on the flag? i mean look at russia for instance, "political incorrectness" over there is as simple as being gay - even putin thinks so, and when the prime minister and all his buddies think the same thing and disagreeing becomes offensive, you know what that is don't you? america doesn't even have a left-wing to begin with so anything approaching what you guys call "political correctness" is mostly just gonna be milquetoast, sensible ideas on gays rights and stuff like that. you guys pretty much don't even get to use the term yet, how could it have taken over one whole half of your bipartisan system?[/QUOTE] in the USA, evolution is mostly treated as fact, at least in my experience (though I do live in the North East). What I mean by political correctness is sort of the radical political correctness that's most common on tumblr. I have no problem with gays marrying or anything like that but the movement to make everyone equal, if brought too far, might lead to a sort of Harrison Bergeron situation where everyone is limited in the name of fairness. [editline]12th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=LoganIsAwesome;47511779]You live in the US. Living in the US and voting means you vote in the general interests of the US. Not of your home-country.[/QUOTE] I think that it's in the interest of the USA to support Israel. They are the only reliable ally in the Middle East and they are too connected to the USA to work against it.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;47511932] I think that it's in the interest of the USA to support Israel. They are the only reliable ally in the Middle East and they are too connected to the USA to work against it.[/QUOTE] It is not in the interest of the US to support Israel. For one, it's [I]my[/I] tax dollars that should be put back into work for me, not Israel to do whatever, including oppressing minorities. On top of that, it's our shit alliance (I describe it as shit because Israel benefits and takes advantage of it far more than the US) that is why the rest of the Middle East is so against the US. Get rid of the support, get rid of a lot of enemies in the middle east for the US and hopefully rid of a lot of pointless wars. I have to ask the inevitable question - if you prefer being Israeli over the US, why don't you live there?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47511970]It is not in the interest of the US to support Israel. For one, it's [I]my[/I] tax dollars that should be put back into work for me, not Israel to do whatever, including oppressing minorities. On top of that, it's our shit alliance (I describe it as shit because Israel benefits and takes advantage of it far more than the US) that is why the rest of the Middle East is so against the US. Get rid of the support, get rid of a lot of enemies in the middle east for the US and hopefully rid of a lot of pointless wars. I have to ask the inevitable question - if you prefer being Israeli over the US, why don't you live there?[/QUOTE] US cutting all support for Israel would have the opposite effect - all the countries surrounding would likely have another conflict and the US would certainly intervene. And I'm sorry but [I]your[/I] tax dollars don't just go to things that benefits you, that's incredibly naive to think so.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;47511932]in the USA, evolution is mostly treated as fact, at least in my experience (though I do live in the North East). What I mean by political correctness is sort of the radical political correctness that's most common on tumblr. I have no problem with gays marrying or anything like that but the movement to make everyone equal, if brought too far, might lead to a sort of Harrison Bergeron situation where everyone is limited in the name of fairness.[/QUOTE] but what i'm saying is that that will literally never happen in the united states, at least not in either of our lifetimes. neither party supports such a thing, and if they did then no one would vote for them. the only way you could possibly think it's a real risk is if your bar for politically correct toadying is so low that you might as well just vote GOP. also Harrison Bergeron was a satire of the era's complete misunderstanding of egalitarianism. that you read it the same way as a bunch of ignorant red-baiting Nixon voters says a lot about how up to date your fears are

[QUOTE=draugur;47506852]No you can't.[/QUOTE] yes you can i literally did it a year ago [editline]12th April 2015[/editline] sorry if you live in a shitty state but there's multiple states where you can vote in both primaries as independent

[QUOTE=FFStudios;47512655]yes you can i literally did it a year ago [editline]12th April 2015[/editline] sorry if you live in a shitty state but there's multiple states where you can vote in both primaries as independent[/QUOTE] Turns out I live in such a shitty state. :C

[QUOTE=Clavin;47497627]Who's Bernie Sanders? Never heard of the guy. On topic, Jesus christ no. Her husband was amazing but she can get rekt[/QUOTE] He's a Vermont senator, and he's the only self proclaimed socialist in congress. He supports social healthcare. He talks straight and he is very un-corrupt. He's very, very good. It's never going to happen though, sadly. The US political climate is just too far right, and he's further left than anyone prominent in his party. Even if he did get in, he'd never get anything through even a democrat congress. Also my class met him on a college politics trip. He chatted to us about how rubbish partisan congress is and how good our health service is in the uk, and how jealous of it he is and we asked him questions and I said something to him about how we're in the process of losing our nhs, and he said something along the lines of that sucks but it's still better than the US's situation. This was just a few hours after we watched him "debating" his veterans rights bill in the Senate during our tour of congress (there was only one other senator present at the time). Also, we lucked out and got to ride on the special underground senator train that goes between congress and the senate office, because we were gonna meet him at the senate office but he was gonna be late so we had to meet him in Congress and needed to be quick. Also, while we were down there John Mccain walked past us. As politics students studying US politics this day made us pretty star struck.

[QUOTE=butt2089;47512026] And I'm sorry but [I]your[/I] tax dollars don't just go to things that benefits you, that's incredibly naive to think so.[/QUOTE] No, they don't. But they should.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47513373]No, they don't. But they should.[/QUOTE] What the hell is the point of taxes then? By this logic everyone should just pay for societal benefits as they go. Buy a monthly road pass if you want to drive. Pay your water purification bill if you want clean water. Pay off mercenaries to guard your home in place of police or military. Guess who might have trouble paying for all of this by themselves? Poor people maybe?

[QUOTE=Jackald;47508209] It's like a completely different world where being a raving lunatic is not an impediment to winning an election.[/QUOTE] Well, significant portions of the American public are raving lunatics and/or complete ignoramuses. You wouldn't be able to buy an election with TV ads if Americans weren't dumb enough to respond to TV ads. We're so goddamn ignorant about all things policy that the one thing we focus on the most in a presidential debate is "Who looks most 'presidential'?" Like our elections are a fucking beauty pageant at the Playboy mansion. We spend hours and hours of cable news airtime talking about horse-race personality politics without giving any time whatsoever to the actual policy outcomes tied to our votes. We choose between "All-American Texas Good Ole Boy" and "Stuffy Harvard Intellectual", not "Privatizing Social Security" and "Universal Healthcare". Is it any wonder that crazy and dishonest people populate the political landscape when the only thing we focus on is [I]the people?[/I]

[QUOTE=Explosions;47514038]What the hell is the point of taxes then? By this logic everyone should just pay for societal benefits as they go. Buy a monthly road pass if you want to drive. Pay your water purification bill if you want clean water. Pay off mercenaries to guard your home in place of police or military. Guess who might have trouble paying for all of this by themselves? Poor people maybe?[/QUOTE] I was talking about foreign aid to Israel, not my personal taxes going directly to me personally. Should try to read posts in the context of the discussion.

[QUOTE=Explosions;47514038]What the hell is the point of taxes then? By this logic everyone should just pay for societal benefits as they go. Buy a monthly road pass if you want to drive. Pay your water purification bill if you want clean water. Pay off mercenaries to guard your home in place of police or military. Guess who might have trouble paying for all of this by themselves? Poor people maybe?[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure he isn't talking about literally just himself, he just doesn't see why any portion of the US's tax revenue should go to Israel. I'm mostly indifferent about Israel existing. It makes no difference to me personally because the middle east shouldn't even be a major part in our agenda, but we are mostly stuck with it due to our past actions. However it's pretty shit when we support Israel so massively and then they just pull random shit on basically the entire world whenever they feel they can get away with it. I'd say it's similar to the way the colonists fucked with the British, but the British didn't actually ask us to stop our genocides.

[QUOTE=Cone;47512256]but what i'm saying is that that will literally never happen in the united states, at least not in either of our lifetimes. neither party supports such a thing, and if they did then no one would vote for them. the only way you could possibly think it's a real risk is if your bar for politically correct toadying is so low that you might as well just vote GOP. also Harrison Bergeron was a satire of the era's complete misunderstanding of egalitarianism. that you read it the same way as a bunch of ignorant red-baiting Nixon voters says a lot about how up to date your fears are[/QUOTE] when I read the story, I wasn't aware that it was a satire. I don't live in Israel because life's circumstances led to me moving to the USA when I was very young and I forgot almost all of my hebrew. This thread has led me to thinking a bit. The thing is that everyone seems corrupt or immoral in politics and it seems like voting right now is choosing the lesser of the evils. There is no one in US politics who would work for me on reducing climate change and coming down harsher on companies who cheat their customers while also supporting Israel. Also, if Clinton is chosen as the democratic candidate, it's either going to be voting for someone who will advocate a nanny state or some darling of the GOP. From what I've seen, voting for a third party is like throwing your vote away, at least in the USA.

Israel is the guardian of Christian holy lands, as long as Christians hold sway in the US then support for Israel is never going away. If you don't think Christians rule here, let me ask you when was the last time we had a President who wasn't some branch of Christian? As far as idealism goes, there's too much money floating around. You could be the most awesome, honest politician and by the time you climb from local/state politics to national prominence someone somewhere has bought you. It's the political version of what Google/Facebook/MS do when a new startup gets some success- buy it so that you profit from it as it becomes more successful. When someone dangles enough money in front of you it's all but impossible to say no.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47514787]I was talking about foreign aid to Israel, not my personal taxes going directly to me personally. Should try to read posts in the context of the discussion.[/QUOTE] Doesn't matter what the context is. This is the same logic that libertarians apply to everything else, whether it's foreign aid, utilities, or the Obamacare mandate.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;47514871] I don't live in Israel because life's circumstances led to me moving to the USA when I was very young and I forgot almost all of my hebrew. .[/QUOTE] Why do you have such loyalty to a place you don't even know, then?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;47515490]Why do you have such loyalty to a place you don't even know, then?[/QUOTE] I'm Jewish. It's my ancestral homeland and besides, a very pretty country. My great grandparents and my aunt's family live in Israel. I've been back to Israel several times and I really enjoyed being there. In Israel, people are straight with you.