Paris ban on Muslim street prayers comes into effect - Polidicks

Go read the social contract by Rouseau, it pretty much sums up everything you have to know about this law and about french politics in general. So you'll avoid to compare it to the absolute freedom other countries absolutely seek for their inhabitants.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32327277]Once again, Rousseau. Slavery isn't acceptable because the counterpart is too important. Nothing comparable to having to go pray somewhere else to allow people to walk properly.[/QUOTE] If you legitimately just cared about cars and people being able to get by, you'd focus on the laws about traffic disruption and blocking pedestrians, and just ask the police to focus on it. But you're not, you're specifically honing in on religion, only one group of which seems to cause problems for you.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32327290]So you're saying that the majority can oppress the minority to make the majority's lives more convenient?[/QUOTE] To make everybody's live more convenient, that is. In that case, Muslims can't pray on the filthy polluted street, and have instead access to proper clean buildings, the one they are supposed to pray in in the first place but didn't have.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32326887]Shit's going quite fast on the thread. The law says no "street prayer" is authorized. There is no specification what religion you are following, what are you reasons to pray or whatever else. If you start praying on the street, you have to go pray somewhere else.[/QUOTE] How does the law define "street prayer"?

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32327320]If you legitimately just cared about cars and people being able to get by, you'd focus on the laws about traffic disruption and blocking pedestrians, and just ask the police to focus on it. But you're not, you're specifically honing in on religion, only one group of which seems to cause problems for you.[/QUOTE] So far I only recall Muslims have to pray specifically by laying on the ground for 3 minutes.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32327310]Go read the social contract by Rouseau, it pretty much sums up everything you have to know about this law and about french politics in general. So you'll avoid to compare it to the absolute freedom other countries absolutely seek for their inhabitants.[/QUOTE] "Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1712–1778), in his influential 1762 treatise The Social Contract, outlined a different version of social contract theory, based on unlimited popular sovereignty. Although Rousseau wrote that the British were perhaps at the time the freest people on earth, he did not approve of their representative government. Rousseau believed that liberty was possible only where there was direct rule by the people as a whole in lawmaking, where popular sovereignty was indivisible and inalienable. But he also maintained that the people often did not know their "real will," and that a proper society would not occur until a great leader ("the Legislator") arose to change the values and customs of the people, likely through the strategic use of religion." He believed in tyranny of the majority.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32326947]They are indeed. Sucks to be them, a minority can't force a majority to change, that's democracy.[/QUOTE] hahaha uhhh no that's called populism.

[QUOTE=Lankist;32327332]How does the law define "street prayer"?[/QUOTE] Praying in the street

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32327330]To make everybody's live more convenient, that is. In that case, Muslims can't pray on the filthy polluted street, and have instead access to proper clean buildings, the one they are supposed to pray in in the first place but didn't have.[/QUOTE] Let me guess, you'd also like it to be illegal for protesters not to be in the streets?

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32327016]No, I'm supporting the convenience of the majority. Muslims have tons of places to pray on, especially now with the buildings we gave them.[/QUOTE] So basically you think you're better than them because you're white. [editline]16th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;32327349]Praying in the street[/QUOTE] No, how the fuck does the fucking legislation define Street Prayer, as an act and as a crime? Have you read the legislation? Because I'm not asking for your goddamn interpretation. I want you to quote the bill itself.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32327346]"Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1712–1778), in his influential 1762 treatise The Social Contract, outlined a different version of social contract theory, based on unlimited popular sovereignty. Although Rousseau wrote that the British were perhaps at the time the freest people on earth, he did not approve of their representative government. Rousseau believed that liberty was possible only where there was direct rule by the people as a whole in lawmaking, where popular sovereignty was indivisible and inalienable. But he also maintained that the people often did not know their "real will," and that a proper society would not occur until a great leader ("the Legislator") arose to change the values and customs of the people, likely through the strategic use of religion." He believed in tyranny of the majority.[/QUOTE] That's pretty much what french democracy is about today. Pretty much like in the US, and pretty much like in any other republic.

[QUOTE=Lankist;32327368]So basically you think you're better than them because you're white. [editline]16th September 2011[/editline] No, how the fuck does the fucking legislation define Street Prayer. Have you read the legislation?[/QUOTE] He still hasn't answered who is "we" and who is "them".

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32327277]Depends on which one you're talking about. The french revolution was pretty much all about that. And beheading people. Rousseau also pretty much said all of that.[/QUOTE] uh rousseau was swiss. and the french revolution was very swiftly the opposite of democracy.

[QUOTE=Lankist;32327368]So basically you think you're better than them because you're white.[/QUOTE] There are white muslims, stop being a racist [editline]17th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Megafanx13;32327386]He still hasn't answered who is "we" and who is "them".[/QUOTE] We is the people, them is the part of the people that causes trouble.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32327380]That's pretty much what french democracy is about today. Pretty much like in the US, and pretty much like in any other republic.[/QUOTE] Just in case you missed it: "But he also maintained that the people often did not know their "real will," and that a proper society would not occur until a great leader ("the Legislator") arose to change the values and customs of the people, likely through the strategic use of religion." Claims that people do not really know what they want, and that a proper society would not come to be without a legislator making laws based on a certain religion.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32327380]That's pretty much what french democracy is about today. Pretty much like in the US, and pretty much like in any other republic.[/QUOTE] Uhhhh no not at all like the US. Majority does not rule in the US.

[QUOTE=thisispain;32327390]uh rousseau was swiss.[/QUOTE] Still estimated himself as French. The french revolution itself wasn't about democracy, but it was made to install one.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32327393]We is the people, them is the part of the people that causes trouble.[/QUOTE] Except that when you use "them", you're referring to Muslims. If not, you wouldn't be saying things like "the mosques we gave them".

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32327344]So far I only recall Muslims have to pray specifically by laying on the ground for 3 minutes.[/QUOTE] Hahaha, its much more complicated than that and they do not 'lay on the ground'. There are three alternating positions. 1) standing up, head down, right hand over your left hand, both are on your chest 2) bent down at a 90 degree angle (bowing) 3) knees, palms of the hands and forehead on the floor These are recited with Quranic verses and supplements.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32327393]There are white muslims, stop being a racist [editline]17th September 2011[/editline] We is the people, them is the part of the people that causes trouble.[/QUOTE] So they don't get a say because you're bigger than them? That's called fucking fascism and racism.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32327310]Go read the social contract by Rouseau[/QUOTE] the one which has equal surrender of freedom as a major principle? what freedoms do non-muslim people lose with burqa and street prayer bans?

[QUOTE=Lankist;32327403]Uhhhh no not at all like the US. Majority does not rule in the US.[/QUOTE] Oh yeah right, I forgot, you elected a president then turned your back on him and started yelling at his incompetence. Way to go.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32327431]Oh yeah right, I forgot, you elected a president then turned your back on him and started yelling at his incompetence. Way to go.[/QUOTE] And here I thought you were LISTENING when I explained the separation of powers and how the Supreme Court, the most powerful branch of US Government, operates AGAINST the wills of the Majority. If you had your way the french would still be kidnapping black people and selling them to other countries as slaves. Because fuck their rights as long as it's convenient to white people.

[QUOTE=thisispain;32327424]the one which has equal surrender of freedom as a major principle? what freedoms do non-muslim people lose with burqa and street prayer bans?[/QUOTE] None, but nothing indicates they will not lose freedoms with another laws, including the ones that make them unable to insult Muslims.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32327393]There are white muslims, stop being a racist [/QUOTE] Yes, but they are not White in the academic sense of the word. There are degrees of Whiteness.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32327414] it was made to install one.[/QUOTE] no it actually was about the overthrow of the monarch. during the french revolution the reign of terror began and it was followed by Napoleon who took control of france.

[QUOTE=thisispain;32327461]no it actually was about the overthrow of the monarch. during the french revolution the reign of terror began and it was followed by Napoleon who took control of france.[/QUOTE] You forgot the part where a first republic was installed. It offered too much freedom and ended up having someone use it to take over a whole nation.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32327491]You forgot the part where a first republic was installed. It offered too much freedom and ended up having someone use it to take over a whole nation.[/QUOTE] that's not true at all. a war and lack of political leadership in a constitutional crisis led to the committee of public safety which led to the execution of many counter-revolutionaries. if anything the complete lack of any political freedom led to tyranny. this is one of the key things the founding fathers wanted to avoid.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32327277] Once again, Rousseau. Slavery isn't acceptable because the counterpart is too important. Nothing comparable to having to go pray somewhere else to allow people to walk properly.[/QUOTE] Oh, don't you go and talk about acceptable comparisons Mr. praying-is-like-firebombing-cars

Getting back to the whole racial oppression bullshit, no, the law isn't here to oppress a "race" (what sense does that make anyway) or an ethnicity, or whatever else. It's simple that the media finds it more selling to quote people saying it's a grave assault to people's freedom, regardless of all the measures taken to give the Muslims a place to pray in instead of the streets. Just because religion is involved doesn't mean it necessarily include discrimination. When a person is homeless, we give him a shelter, at least a temporary one, until he can find a good place to live. The problem is exactly the same here - Muslims do not have enough room in their mosques, so they have to pray outside - thus, we give them a place to pray, and just like with hobos, we know a lot of them will refuse because they are placing some sort of false pride in front of their own safety (once again praying in the middle of a road isn't safe, cars are going through there, it's also polluted as fuck), so we force them to go in the shelter by banning the fact of praying outside, so we are sure no butthurt will absolutely want to stay outside, even though it's annoying way too much people, blocking traffic, destroying their lungs and skin thanks to pollution, and giving Islamophobics a reason to yell. Should the measure be taken for religious reasons, it would only give anti-muslims less reasons to brag about them, not more. If you can't understand that, there is no hope for you. This is also the last time I will post on this thread, because the first 5 pages were alright, then it just turned into a shitstorm for 15 pages of you not reading the thread and bragging about non-existent issues.