Paris ban on Muslim street prayers comes into effect - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32337183] Because before "modernity" most people were morons, including the priests. The people who wrote the Bible were far from doing it with bad intentions.[/QUOTE] Ahahaha "most of religious establishment prior to the last 50 years was morons, including all of the early church" nice historical ignorance and revisionism I give up, you're baffling. [editline]18th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Conspiracy;32337185]I just love how I'm a muslim and non-muslims are getting so offended at this. If we were really that upset there'd be reports of protests like what happened with the Danish cartoon. We're being given what we want, where is the problem here?[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure you don't speak for all Muslims, or any Muslims except yourself. Tell me, what kind of study have you done in neo or postcolonial theory?

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;32337150]That's silly. Either the entire book is metaphorical or literal, picking and choosing which parts you want to say are metaphors are just ways people try to justify the abhorrent scriptures that are in there. "Pure atheists" don't try to sink religion, assholes do. And besides you're an agnostic atheist since you don't hold a belief in a god.[/QUOTE] Well the entire book is Metaphorical then. They might have thought it was literal for a while (Jesus getting a duplicator tool out of his ass and spawning bread), but that was because Priests told people it was true. Both priests and people were gullible back then, this from the beginning of the bible to pretty much the end of middle age. Atheists believe god doesn't exist. It's the definition of the word. Agnostics believe god might or might not exist, because as long as we don't have proof, there's no reason to affirm anything. Being an Agnostic doesn't mean you can't believe, though most of the time agnostics who actually believe in a God believe in an overall entity rather than a god specific to one of the three monotheist religions.

[QUOTE=Conspiracy;32337185]It's not for anyones safety. It's not to prevent them from praying. Muslims should be praying in mosques, that is what they are for. The only time you should pray somewhere like the street would be if there aren't enough mosques to pray in. This is getting in the way of people who want to drive down roads that are filled with people praying on a busy Friday noon. Muslims get mosques to pray in, people can go about doing their thing. Everybody wins. No one is supposedly protected, and I'm sure the protests were only to bring light to the issue that was dealt in a very unbiased manner. I just love how I'm a muslim and non-muslims are getting so offended at this. If we were really that upset there'd be reports of protests like what happened with the Danish cartoon. We're being given what we want, where is the problem here?[/QUOTE] Muslims don't have to pray in mosques, they just have to pray. Why can't they just outlaw praying in the road (probably ALREADY illegal) and just let them pray in public? I thought modern civilizations had this silly thing called freedom of religion.

Anyone who doesn't see the vastness of space all around us and mixes it up with something else, is dumb.

[QUOTE=Contag;32337220]I'm pretty sure you don't speak for all Muslims, or any Muslims except yourself.[/QUOTE] Muslims who yell at this measure are butthurts.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32337251]Well the entire book is Metaphorical then. They might have thought it was literal for a while (Jesus getting a duplicator tool out of his ass and spawning bread), but that was because Priests told people it was true. Both priests and people were gullible back then, this from the beginning of the bible to pretty much the end of middle age. Atheists believe god doesn't exist. It's the definition of the word. Agnostics believe god might or might not exist, because as long as we don't have proof, there's no reason to affirm anything. Being an Agnostic doesn't mean you can't believe, though most of the time agnostics who actually believe in a God believe in an overall entity rather than a god specific to one of the three monotheist religions.[/QUOTE] Atheism is at it's broadest the lack of belief in a god, not necessarily "I don't believe god exists." There's a difference. If you don't have a belief in god, that makes you some form of atheist. Agnosticism is the stance of whether or not the existence of a god is knowable, it's not an in between. Yeah I'm totally sure whoever wrote the Bible did so with the intention that it was one big metaphor. Kill gays? Metaphor. Stone your disobedient children? Metaphor.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32337251] Being an Agnostic doesn't mean you can't believe, though most of the time agnostics who actually believe in a God believe in an overall entity rather than a god specific to one of the three monotheist religions.[/QUOTE] There are agnostic atheists, agnostic theists and so on, which label what you've described. I think you mean the three major monotheist Abrahamic religions, as there are plenty of non-Abrahamic monotheistic religions. (and a couple polytheistic Abrahamic religions, lol not sure what drugs they're on)

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;32337270]Muslims don't have to pray in mosques, they just have to pray. Why can't they just outlaw praying in the road (probably ALREADY illegal) and just let them pray in public? I thought modern civilizations had this silly thing called freedom of religion.[/QUOTE]I'm pretty sure muslims have to go to mosques on Fridays.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32337288]Muslims who yell at this measure are butthurts.[/QUOTE] [H2] THANK YOU KINDLY FOR THIS DEEP AND ILLUMINATING STATEMENT[/H2] You have shown me the error of my ways.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;32337270]Muslims don't have to pray in mosques, they just have to pray. Why can't they just outlaw praying in the road (probably ALREADY illegal) and just let them pray in public? I thought modern civilizations had this silly thing called freedom of religion.[/QUOTE] Freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom of harassing people, mind you. Or else once again anyone can create a religion and make its first rule to block traffic 1 day a week by stopping in the middle of the road and starting to dance and run in circles.

God is fiction /thread

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32337316]Freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom of harassing people, mind you. [/QUOTE] Then why the bloody hell do these 7th day adventists keep coming to my door!

This is turning into a religious argument again. Why do you love to turn a harmless law into a political/religious debate ? These first 5 pages where we were just discussing Islam were nice. [editline]17th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Contag;32337337]Then why the bloody hell do these 7th day adventists keep coming to my door![/QUOTE] Where are you living ? In France you can go to a police station and tell them someone is knocking on your door on a regular basis to convince you. It's called harassment and whoever does it to you has to either pay a fine or get arrested depending on the gravity of his act. [editline]17th September 2011[/editline] I think people should calm down and everyone who's against this measure because they think it's against muslims should properly and politely tell why they think it's a bad measure, so we can answer them correctly and prove it's not a heinous measure. Conspiracy and I are perfectly able to tell how this is neither a political nor religious grave issue.

[QUOTE=Contag;32337220] I'm pretty sure you don't speak for all Muslims, or any Muslims except yourself. Tell me, what kind of study have you done in neo or postcolonial theory?[/QUOTE] Hahaha, trying to teach me about why I'm wrong about Islam (the religion I practice) and how I should be offended because apparently according to you muslims are being oppressed. Salat al Jumaa are the friday prayers. These are held in large groups of people IN MOSQUES. In the arab part of the world, the really huge Mosques hold these Friday prayers. And they're huge because they're made to accomodate large amounts of people. When you don't have enough mosques, people just use an open space within a neighborhood and carry it out there. If they were to block up roads, even in a Muslim country; they would not be allowed to as it causes a disturbance for the non-Muslims in the area who are likely getting somewhere. France are building mosques so not only can the roads not be blocked every Friday morning but also to give Muslims a designated place of worship that's MUCH more comfortable than the goddamn road. You're just making mountains of molehills. [editline]17th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;32337270]Muslims don't have to pray in mosques, they just have to pray. Why can't they just outlaw praying in the road (probably ALREADY illegal) and just let them pray in public? I thought modern civilizations had this silly thing called freedom of religion.[/QUOTE] If you'd refer to the title of the article, the 'street prayers' specifically are being banned. I doubt anyones going to bother you if you were praying in a park, or anywhere that didn't stir any problems. Otherwise i'd agree with you. Mosques are made for Friday prayers because you get more hasanat (good deeds) by praying in one. It's the preferred option, street praying is a last resort.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32337342]This is turning into a religious argument again. Why do you love to turn a harmless law into a political/religious debate ? These first 5 pages where we were just discussing Islam were nice. [editline]17th September 2011[/editline] Where are you living ? In France you can go to a police station and tell them someone is knocking on your door on a regular basis to convince you. It's called harassment and whoever does it to you has to either pay a fine or get arrested depending on the gravity of his act. [editline]17th September 2011[/editline] I think people should calm down and everyone who's against this measure because they think it's against muslims should properly and politely tell why they think it's a bad measure, so we can answer them correctly and prove it's not a heinous measure. Conspiracy and I are perfectly able to tell how this is neither a political nor religious grave issue.[/QUOTE] Oh yes I'm sure it's not heinous considering they banned allowing them to wear veils in public for no real reason either. And then you have people like this on the forefront of the opposition: [quote]Far right protests at the "Islamisation" of the Goutte d'Or district began last year and in December the leader of the French National Front, Marine Le Pen, accused Muslim fundamentalists of using prayers for political ends. She controversially compared the practice to the Nazi wartime occupation of France.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Conspiracy;32337397]Hahaha, trying to teach me about why I'm wrong about Islam (the religion I practice) and how I should be offended because apparently according to you muslims are being oppressed.[/QUOTE] I'm trying to teach you why you're wrong about this being an example of neocolonialism. You shouldn't be offended - why would you? You don't live there and this law doesn't apply to you? You obviously care nothing about freedom from and of religion (e.g. homosexual laws in Qatar) That's saying I should be on the side of the French because I'm white, arrogant and sexy.

Marine Lepen is batshit insane, just like her father was. Both deny the existence of gas chambers and want to downright make illegal the PRESENCE of strangers on the French territory, even if they came totally legally. The national front is not an opposition, it's just a bunch of crazy conservatives that want to make France a fortress against immigration. The real opposition is the left wing, the Socialist Party, and so far they didn't say anything about the measure while habitually they contest everything the government does. That's probably because the measure itself is more left wing that right wing.

[QUOTE=Conspiracy;32337397]Salat al Jumaa are the friday prayers. These are held in large groups of people IN MOSQUES. In the arab part of the world, the really huge Mosques hold these Friday prayers. And they're huge because they're made to accomodate large amounts of people. When you don't have enough mosques, people just use an open space within a neighborhood and carry it out there. If they were to block up roads, even in a Muslim country; they would not be allowed to as it causes a disturbance for the non-Muslims in the area who are likely getting somewhere. France are building mosques so not only can the roads not be blocked every Friday morning but also to give Muslims a designated place of worship that's MUCH more comfortable than the goddamn road. You're just making mountains of molehills.[/QUOTE] So why does France have to ban street prayers if the problem is being fixed by expanding mosque capacity? Why isn't being in the middle of the road and blocking it illegal already, regardless of whether you are praying or napping?

[QUOTE=Conspiracy;32334906] Unless you were referring to the deportation; you only get deported here if you've commit a serious crime (drug dealing, stealing, murder, etc.) With minor crimes you'll probably get off with a warning or a short prison sentence (a few weeks at most), they just don't want to subject people to Sharia-[B]BASED[/B] laws if they do not happen to be Muslim. They just send them back and let their own judicial system decide what to do with them.[/QUOTE] Your penal code says sodomy is punishable by up to 5 years in prison. In 1995 an American was arrested and tortured for "homosexual activity". In the 1990s, the Philippines had to advise gay migrant workers not to go to Qatar based on previous mass arrests and deportations. There is absolutely no recognition of same-sex relationships in Qatar at all. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Qatar]Source[/url] It isn't a cultural thing. It is state-sponsored discrimination, imprisonment, and torture of gay people. Qatar is hardly progressive in this regard.

[QUOTE=Contag;32337487]You obviously care nothing about freedom from and of religion (e.g. homosexual laws in Qatar)[/QUOTE] These aren't laws but cultural issues. I'm also pretty sure you can get in a lot of trouble by kissing a person of the same sex in public because a lot of people wouldn't like it, especially if it's gay.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32337532]These aren't laws but cultural issues. I'm also pretty sure you can get in a lot of trouble by kissing a person of the same sex in public because a lot of people wouldn't like it, especially if it's gay.[/QUOTE] If the government of Qatar punishes people for homosexual activity, that makes it illegal.

[QUOTE=Contag;32337514]So why does France have to ban street prayers if the problem is being fixed by expanding mosque capacity? Why isn't being in the middle of the road and blocking it illegal already, regardless of whether you are praying or napping?[/QUOTE] Because there would still be a bunch of butthurt Muslims that would keep praying in the middle of the road for the same reason christian fundamentalists want to burn Qurans - gathering attention. [editline]17th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;32337546]If the government of Qatar punishes people for homosexual activity, that makes it illegal.[/QUOTE] Well maybe they should start being a bit more discrete and avoid hugging/kissing in the street, especially if culturally it's an issue.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;32337528] There is absolutely no recognition of same-sex relationships in Qatar at all. [/QUOTE] That's completely untrue. They are recognized. By this: [img]http://www.aussiewhipmaker.com/images/whip_1.jpg[/img] Though tbh I'd rather be lashed than imprisoned for five years.

[QUOTE=Contag;32337514]So why does France have to ban street prayers if the problem is being fixed by expanding mosque capacity? Why isn't being in the middle of the road and blocking it illegal already, regardless of whether you are praying or napping?[/QUOTE] You should start giving a shit about the opinion of the concerned people instead of trying to decide for them. French Muslims don't think any different from Conspiracy.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32337547]Because there would still be a bunch of butthurt Muslims that would keep praying in the middle of the road for the same reason christian fundamentalists want to burn Qurans - gathering attention. [editline]17th September 2011[/editline] Well maybe they should start being a bit more discrete and avoid hugging/kissing in the street, especially if culturally it's an issue.[/QUOTE] Then arrest the people being dicks for blocking the road and not the entire Muslim population. What the fuck is wrong with you? It's okay to torture gay people because they should keep it discreet in public?

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32337547] Well maybe they should start being a bit more discrete and avoid hugging/kissing in the street, especially if culturally it's an issue.[/QUOTE] Maybe Muslims should start being a bit more discrete and avoid appearing Muslim in the street. That's an incredibly reprehensible argument.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32337579]You should start giving a shit about the opinion of the concerned people instead of trying to decide for them. French Muslims don't think any different from Conspiracy.[/QUOTE] [quote]Responding to Mr Gueant's plan, Mohamed Salah Hamza, an imam in the Goutte d'Or, said preparations at the barracks were behind schedule, and he feared a "climate of anarchy". "We are not cattle," he was quoted as saying by France's TF1 News.[/quote] nope not any different at all.

How exactly is not recognizing homosexuals making his argument invalid ? Also, the US were still considering Homosexuality a mental issue a few years ago, and the Don't Tell Don't Ask thing in the army was still up and running until last year.

[QUOTE=Contag;32337487]I'm trying to teach you why you're wrong about this being an example of neocolonialism. You shouldn't be offended - why would you? You don't live there and this law doesn't apply to you? You obviously care nothing about freedom from and of religion (e.g. homosexual laws in Qatar) That's saying I should be on the side of the French because I'm white, arrogant and sexy.[/QUOTE] Yeah. Being born and raised here was just so terrible, my gay friends who live life here perfectly fine and have never been confronted about their sexuality thank you SO much for speaking on their behalf. Google what you will, the laws stand because Qatar was once influenced by Saudi Arabias interpretation of Sharia (Wahabbism) and since you're such an avid researcher I don't have to tell you we've moved pretty far away from the ideology and do not practice them. I truly don't see what you have against this. If there weren't enough room for worshippers in a place designated for said worship, and they were forced to fill up roads where people who do not practice said religion cannot drive across because on the road stands dozens of people who are in a deep state of worship - one that will mean ignoring anyone who asks them to move until they are done. Solution: build more places of preferred worship while giving them unused buildings that can be converted into prayer rooms in the meantime so that both benefit.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32337601]How exactly is not recognizing homosexuals making his argument invalid ? Also, the US were still considering Homosexuality a mental issue a few years ago, and the Don't Tell Don't Ask thing in the army was still up and running until last year.[/QUOTE] Backwards as we are, the government doesn't torture people for kissing in public.