Paris ban on Muslim street prayers comes into effect - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32340477]And you're telling me gays aren't discriminated against?[/QUOTE] Gay marriage is a controversial thing even among the most liberal places in the world. Qatar, as a developing country can't be expected to achieve something that far ahead so soon.

Man the UK should crack down on this type of crap, giving our soldiers shit when they arrive home in their own country who the do they think they are.

[QUOTE=Conspiracy;32340572]Gay marriage is a controversial thing even among the most liberal places in the world. Qatar, as a developing country can't be expected to achieve something that far ahead so soon.[/QUOTE] "can't be expected to achieve something that far ahead" I think that speaks volumes about your culture. [editline]17th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Flem;32340578]Man the UK should crack down on this type of crap, giving our soldiers shit when they arrive home in their own country who the do they think they are.[/QUOTE] People with freedom of speech.

[QUOTE=Conspiracy;32340572]Gay marriage is a controversial thing even among the most liberal places in the world. Qatar, as a developing country can't be expected to achieve something that far ahead so soon.[/QUOTE] Complacency will get you nowhere. Rights are not out of reach. Saying that civil liberties are "far ahead" of you is self-depreciating.

[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;32340554]Why are you all so shocked Gay marriage is illegal in a muslim country when its only legal in about 10 US states.[/QUOTE] Shocked is the wrong word. Annoyed is better.

[QUOTE=Lankist;32340558]They aren't going to get anywhere if most of the country is as complacent about the existence of unjust laws as you are. [editline]17th September 2011[/editline] [/QUOTE] I think it's more of an issue of apathy, since the laws aren't enforced most people don't even know about them. It'd be more of a symbol to abolish it, if anything but I'm sure the day will come.

[QUOTE=Conspiracy;32340572]Gay marriage is a controversial thing even among the most liberal places in the world. Qatar, as a developing country can't be expected to achieve something that far ahead so soon.[/QUOTE] What? This isn't like increasing your GDP or decreasing your birthrate. You just remove the law. I'm not implying you can remove it overnight, because I have no idea, but I do know it's a pretty binary thing in this case. It's either illegal or it's not.

[QUOTE=Conspiracy;32340605]I think it's more of an issue of apathy, since the laws aren't enforced most people don't even know about them. It'd be more of a symbol to abolish it, if anything but I'm sure the day will come.[/QUOTE] Complacency is apathy, only in on a political level. You are accepting the status quo, even when you disagree with it and even when you live in a time when you have the climate and the means to fight for a change. You say it's culture and tradition and call anyone who opposes it a bigot. That's why the law still exists.

[QUOTE=Conspiracy;32340605]I think it's more of an issue of apathy, since the laws aren't enforced most people don't even know about them. It'd be more of a symbol to abolish it, if anything but I'm sure the day will come.[/QUOTE] It's not a symbol if "most people don't know" about them, it's just common sense.

[QUOTE=Lankist;32340628]Complacency is apathy, only in on a political level. You are accepting the status quo, even when you disagree with it and even when you live in a time when you have the climate and the means to fight for a change. You say it's culture and tradition and call anyone who opposes it a bigot. That's why the law still exists.[/QUOTE] Especially with other Arab revolutions going on, this is the prime time to fight for change.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32340661]Especially with other Arab revolutions going on, this is the prime time to fight for change.[/QUOTE] I'm not inciting revolution, just a little bit of political shift. The revolutions are a whole other can of worms I'd rather not get into.

[QUOTE=Lankist;32340628]Complacency is apathy, only in on a political level. You are accepting the status quo, even when you disagree with it and even when you live in a time when you have the climate and the means to fight for a change. You say it's culture and tradition and call anyone who opposes it a bigot. That's why the law still exists.[/QUOTE] Homophobia isn't excusable by culture and tradition, I was only citing that to the PDA business. We're still in a pretty Islamic influenced part of the world, liberal or not; Qatar isn't entirely secular and because of that I doubt gay marriage will be legal for a while. Not that I don't see anything wrong with that fact, but that's the way it is.

[QUOTE=Conspiracy;32340688]Homophobia isn't excusable by culture and tradition, I was only citing that to the PDA business. We're still in a pretty Islamic influenced part of the world, liberal or not; Qatar isn't entirely secular and because of that I doubt gay marriage will be legal for a while. Not that I don't see anything wrong with that fact, but that's the way it is.[/QUOTE] And has there been a better time in your history than now to establish secular standards of civil rights?

[QUOTE=Lankist;32340677]I'm not inciting revolution, just a little bit of political shift. The revolutions are a whole other can of worms I'd rather not get into.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying Qatar needs a revolution, just that with the others going on, the political climate in the Middle East is a bit more flexible than usual.

[QUOTE=Lankist;32340706]And has there been a better time in your history than now to establish secular standards of civil rights?[/QUOTE] Qatar's a little different. The only people who really have a say in anything to do with the jurisdiction are Qatari nationals, which only make up about 15% of the population. If they were to start protests, they could probably achieve results pretty fast but; I myself, despite being born and raised here have a Jordanian citizenship and then the argument comes in where it's like "If you don't like it, go to Jordan".

Qatar has something like an 80% muslim population. Expecting them to rise up and campaign for something like gay marriage is hugely unrealistic.

[QUOTE=Conspiracy;32340749]Qatar's a little different. The only people who really have a say in anything to do with the jurisdiction are Qatari nationals, which only make up about 15% of the population. If they were to start protests, they could probably achieve results pretty fast but; I myself, despite being born and raised here have a Jordanian citizenship and then the argument comes in where it's like "If you don't like it, go to Jordan".[/QUOTE] That's a problem. [editline]17th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=RainbowStalin;32340769]Qatar has something like an 80% muslim population. Expecting them to rise up and campaign for something like gay marriage is hugely unrealistic.[/QUOTE] I am judging by the level of progressiveness that Conspiracy implies, not my own interpretation of Islamic tradition. If I were talking about Islam from my point of view as an atheist this conversation would be a totally different ballgame. But right now I'm talking about people as individuals, not people as Muslims.

[QUOTE=Conspiracy;32340749]Qatar's a little different. The only people who really have a say in anything to do with the jurisdiction are Qatari nationals, which only make up about 15% of the population. If they were to start protests, they could probably achieve results pretty fast but; I myself, despite being born and raised here have a Jordanian citizenship and then the argument comes in where it's like "If you don't like it, go to Jordan".[/QUOTE] Really, so the politicians don't take anyone other than Qatari nationals seriously and you don't think that's a problem?

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32340828]Really, so the politicians don't take anyone other than Qatari nationals seriously and you don't think that's a problem?[/QUOTE] It can be inconvenient sure, but the logic is: what right do I have to force change in a foreign country where I could be perfectly happy back home?

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32340828]Really, so the politicians don't take anyone other than Qatari nationals seriously and you don't think that's a problem?[/QUOTE] [img]http://i.huffpost.com/gen/170315/thumbs/s-ARIZONA-IMMIGRATION-PROTEST-large.jpg[/img] To be fair, we do the same thing here to Mexicans whenever they protest for immigration reform. But we're allowed to call people out on being racist against us when they do so that's an advantage. [editline]17th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Conspiracy;32340896]It can be inconvenient sure, but the logic is: what right do I have to force change in a foreign country where I could be perfectly happy back home?[/QUOTE] The country you live in and work for is more your country than whatever country you came from to begin with. I'm not trying to shove American values on to you, but here (aside from racist republicans) we think of anyone who lives here as an American. Even if they're here illegally, they're still protected by our rights. An illegal or naturalized alien can protest just as much as anyone else. If you aren't allowed to do that, you are being misrepresented.

[QUOTE=Lankist;32340907]To be fair, we do the same thing here to Mexicans whenever they protest for immigration reform. But we're allowed to call people out on being racist against us when they do so that's an advantage. [editline]17th September 2011[/editline] The country you live in and work for is more your country than whatever country you came from to begin with. I'm not trying to shove American values on to you, but here (aside from racist republicans) we think of anyone who lives here as an American. Even if they're here illegally, they're still protected by our rights.[/QUOTE] Yeah, America is way more open to citizenship. Ironically, Qatar uses the whole non-citizenship thing to its advantage. Qataris are all Muslim, every single one. So if they get caught doing anything, they can get jailed and are subject to Qatari law. If a non-Qatari breaks a law, Qatar just lets their own country take care of them legally so that it avoids any disagreements with certain laws that don't apply to countries; so they get sent on a plane back home.

[QUOTE=Conspiracy;32341015]Yeah, America is way more open to citizenship.[/QUOTE] We haven't perfected it, don't get me wrong. We still have people here who see the immigrants who maintain our infrastructure for pennies on the dollar and tell them to "go home." Even though the US sort of annexed their homeland. But we fight the good fight, ¡Viva la revolución!

[QUOTE=Conspiracy;32341015]Yeah, America is way more open to citizenship. Ironically, Qatar uses the whole non-citizenship thing to its advantage. Qataris are all Muslim, every single one. So if they get caught doing anything, they can get jailed and are subject to Qatari law. If a non-Qatari breaks a law, Qatar just lets their own country take care of them legally so that it avoids any disagreements with certain laws that don't apply to countries; so they get sent on a plane back home.[/QUOTE] You break a law and get deported, even if you're there legally? [editline]17th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Lankist;32341076]We haven't perfected it, don't get me wrong. We still have people here who see the immigrants who maintain our infrastructure for pennies on the dollar and tell them to "go home." Even though the US sort of annexed their homeland. But we fight the good fight, ¡Viva la revolución![/QUOTE] Yeah, this is important to note. Just because I say that the US does some things in a better way, it by no means is me saying that it's perfect. Believe me, it is not even close.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32341086]You break a law and get deported, even if you're there legally? [editline]17th September 2011[/editline] Yeah, this is important to note. Just because I say that the US does some things in a better way, it by no means is me saying that it's perfect. Believe me, it is not even close.[/QUOTE] Well I mean it applies to more major laws like stealing large sums of money or murder or whatever; but your workers visa gets revoked and you're sent back. If it's anything like my friend who was caught shoplifting, he only got a few days in jail.

so if you commit a murder, you get sent to be tried in a jurisdiction borders away from where the murder took place? That seems to misrepresent the case. The entire trial would be hear-say, and you wouldn't be tried by your peers but by a bunch of strangers who happen to share your original nationality.

[QUOTE=Lankist;32341171]so if you commit a murder, you get sent to be tried in a jurisdiction borders away from where the murder took place? That seems to misrepresent the case. The entire trial would be hear-say, and you wouldn't be tried by your peers but by a bunch of strangers who happen to share your original nationality.[/QUOTE] Well, no. You'd be tried in a Qatari court of law and detained for a little while, but then you'd be sent back to your government to carry out a jail sentence approved by your own jurisdiction, or whatever other punishment they line up for you. If they don't think you've done anything wrong, then that's your countries choice to let you go free.

[QUOTE=Conspiracy;32341199]Well, no. You'd be tried in a Qatari court of law and detained for a little while, but then you'd be sent back to your government to carry out a jail sentence approved by your own jurisdiction, or whatever other punishment they line up for you. If they don't think you've done anything wrong, then that's your countries choice to let you go free.[/QUOTE] That's fairer than I presumed, but it still seems like a ham-handed way of managing an internal justice system. All of the power with little accountability.

[QUOTE=Lankist;32341242]That's fairer than I presumed, but it still seems like a ham-handed way of managing an internal justice system.[/QUOTE] It may seem so, but it definitely avoids political tension; i.e the American who got lashes in the 90s. This is the main reason why gay people don't get trouble down here, the non-Qatari gay people do whatever they want to do, because they're technically not subject to Qatar's islam-influenced law. PDA is considered disrespectful no matter who's doing it, and as for the local gay people they're raised under the cultural custom of keeping sexual acts in private so everything works out.

So if I push your argument to the very edge Lankist we should be able to run totally naked in the street while holding a big sign with "I HATE JEWS BURN THEM ALL" written on it and no one could do jack shit about it because that's freedom of expression. And if we push the argument to a bit more rational place, people could be able to push around pedestrians because their religion or cult or whatever indicates they have to push random people in the street. This is ridiculous.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32344031]we should be able to run totally naked in the street while holding a big sign with "I HATE JEWS BURN THEM ALL" written on it and no one could do jack shit about it because that's freedom of expression.[/QUOTE] i'm okay with that