• 200 Missouri High Schoolers Walk Out Because Trans Student Wants to Use Girls’ Bathroom
    491 replies, posted
I love how all you people are insinuating that we should go to the bathrooms of our biological sex thinking that would somehow make it less awkward for all involved. If you're at the point in your transition where you're comfortable using the female restroom then 100% of the time you're also going to look like you know... A FEMALE and be dressed as one. So what the hell makes you people think that it would be better for us to go to a male restroom? I'm pretty sure that would get you much more eyebrow raises then simply allowing us to use the bathroom of our identified gender. Seriously a MTF person going into the mens restroom is asking for sexual/verbal/physical abuse. Its by far the WORST possible option available. But naturally people don't think critically on the matter and miss out on half of it.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;48603867]Thanks for ignoring half of my post.[/QUOTE] I ignored it because it has nothing to do with my point. Never have I mentioned anything about sexual harassment.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48603863]You're missing the point. The guys in the locker room would not be sexual attracted to the trans girl, especially when she still looks and sounds like a man. It's really not comparable.[/QUOTE] This won't always be true.
"Refused to use gender-neutral restroom." Speaks for itself. The practicality is not the issue, this kid just wants to be forceful about her "civil right".
[QUOTE=sgman91;48603875]I ignored it because it has nothing to do with my point. Never have I mentioned anything about sexual harassment.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=LegndNikko;48603852]If you're going to pull the "they'll be sexually attracted to" argumentt, then okay then, a girl that they wouldn't be sexually attracted to. Point still stands. They're sending a girl to the boy's locker room, plain and simple.[/QUOTE] Okay, there, I edited it. Now, stop defending transphobic actions.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;48603882]Okay, there, I edited it. Now, stop defending transphobic actions.[/QUOTE] I don't care how fat and ugly you are (since that's basically what you're positing), a group of high school boys are going to see any naked woman in a sexual light.
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;48603879]"Refused to use gender-neutral restroom." Speaks for itself. The practicality is not the issue, this kid just wants to be forceful about her "civil right".[/QUOTE] Why not? Perhaps she's fighting for other transgender people who got to school or work in places where gender neutral restrooms aren't available. What you're saying is like expecting a gay person to be okay with not being allowed to marry just because they had no intention to. Doesn't change the fact that they aren't being treated as equals by the people in power.
I mean lets look at this. There are two possible bad scenarios. MtF trans person goes into restroom coinciding with identified gender. One of the girls in the restroom uses her magical x-ray vision to discover you have a penis and awkwardness may indeed happen. This scenario is hilariously unlikely unless you have girls in the restroom actively looking into the stalls or groping people to find out if they have the peen. Now then lets have an MtF trans person go into the mens restroom. Immediately every single person will know something is off. Why is this girl coming into the guys restroom? Perhaps she's lost? This will inevitably lead to the conclusion "Oh its a dude!!!" and awkwardness and potentially discrimination and sexual/verbal/physical happens. This scenario is literally a guarantee if you force MtF trans people to use the mens restroom. Are you people seeing the flaw in the "Hurr bathrooms should be defined by sex rather then gender hurr" line of reasoning now?
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;48603879]"Refused to use gender-neutral restroom." Speaks for itself. The practicality is not the issue, this kid just wants to be forceful about her "civil right".[/QUOTE] Good. I have my own opinions on how gender-segregated bathrooms are stupid, anyway, but you can't justifiably force her to a neutral one. If she wants to use a woman's restroom over it, I think she has the right to.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;48603895]I mean lets look at this. There are two possible bad scenarios. MtF trans person goes into restroom coinciding with identified gender. One of the girls in the restroom uses her magical x-ray vision to discover you have a penis and awkwardness may indeed happen. This scenario is hilariously unlikely unless you have girls in the restroom actively looking into the stalls or groping people to find out if they have the peen. Now then lets have an MtF trans person go into the mens restroom. Immediately every single person will know something is off. Why is this girl coming into the guys restroom? Perhaps she's lost? This will inevitably lead to the conclusion "Oh its a dude!!!" and awkwardness and potentially discrimination and sexual/verbal/physical happens. This scenario is literally a guarantee if you force MtF trans people to use the mens restroom. Are you people seeing the flaw in the "Hurr bathrooms should be defined by sex rather then gender hurr" line of reasoning now?[/QUOTE] The person in question doesn't look like a woman at all, and it's a locker room, not a bathroom.
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;48603879]"Refused to use gender-neutral restroom." Speaks for itself. The practicality is not the issue, this kid just wants to be forceful about her "civil right".[/QUOTE] It's similar thing to civil unions vs. full marriage rights, it's not true equality. The best overall end solution would be to have bathrooms not be gendered, but that's quite far aways off.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48603901]The person in question doesn't look like a woman at all.[/QUOTE] Thats absolutely fantastic. Its a shame I made a general statement rather then a specific one. [editline]2nd September 2015[/editline] And a locker room is literally the same thing. I don't know about you but I didn't go around staring at peoples penises when I had to go through the hell of locker rooms. Locker rooms are literally satan for trans people.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;48603910]Thats absolutely fantastic. Its a shame I made a general statement rather then a specific one.[/QUOTE] Your entire point hinged on the fact that the person looks like a woman. For example, your second point starts off with, "Now then lets have an MtF trans person go into the mens restroom. Immediately every single person will know something is off." In this situation, it will be preeminently obvious to both the men and the women, no matter what locker room they go to.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48603918]Your entire point hinged on the fact that the person looks like a woman.[/QUOTE] My entire argument also wasn't based on the individual in the article so great work.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;48603926]My entire argument also wasn't based on the individual in the article so great work.[/QUOTE] Oh, OK, sorry, I assumed you were talking about the situation being discussed in the rest of the thread.
Also how about you actually think out your posts instead of adding edits to them in post so that its actually possible for me to consider your post before you reply.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;48603899]Good. I have my own opinions on how gender-segregated bathrooms are stupid, anyway, but you can't justifiably force her to a neutral one. If she wants to use a woman's restroom over it, I think she has the right to.[/QUOTE] The point is that she's being difficult over something that really isn't that big of a deal. In using a gender-neutral bathroom she avoids the uncomfortableness of being in a men's locker room, while also avoiding making the women in the women's locker room uncomfortable. It's simply the best way of appeasing both sides. [editline]2nd September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Katska;48603892] What you're saying is like expecting a gay person to be okay with not being allowed to marry just because they had no intention to. Doesn't change the fact that they aren't being treated as equals by the people in power.[/QUOTE] What? [editline]2nd September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=thelurker1234;48603905]It's similar thing to civil unions vs. full marriage rights, it's not true equality. The best overall end solution would be to have bathrooms not be gendered, but that's quite far aways off.[/QUOTE] There is a huge difference between gay marriage and school bathrooms. While it's not true equality, it's a fair settlement for both parties, at least until Perry has surgery to change genitalia.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48603901]The person in question doesn't look like a woman at all, and it's a locker room, not a bathroom.[/QUOTE] Why is the appearance of the person a reason to keep them from bathrooms? Should we have separate bathrooms for people who may appear to not immediately coincide with any gender or for example, burn victims whose immediate features are gone? [editline]3rd September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Chernobyl426;48603960]at least until Perry has surgery to change genitalia.[/QUOTE] Such operations are not required for transgendered status, and the idea that they are is a terrible misinformation.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;48603933]Also how about you actually think out your posts instead of adding edits to them in post so that its actually possible for me to consider your post before you reply.[/QUOTE] I added an example for further clarity. The point being made didn't change a single bit.
[QUOTE=gufu;48603981] Such operations are not required for transgendered status, and the idea that they are is a terrible misinformation.[/QUOTE] The purpose of segregated bathrooms is to have one group with male genitalia use one set of restrooms, and one group with female genitalia use the other. Regardless of gender identification, the person in question should use their designated restroom based on their genitalia, or if they feel uncomfortable doing that, use a gender neutral restroom.
[QUOTE=gufu;48603981]Why is the appearance of the person a reason to keep them from bathrooms? Should we have separate bathrooms for people who may appear to not immediately coincide with any gender or for example, burn victims whose immediate features are gone?[/QUOTE] His pointed hinged on the person in question looking a certain way, and my post was made to contest that point since the person in question doesn't look like a woman, and therefore wouldn't apply to the situations that he had given. I wasn't trying to make any other point.
[QUOTE=sgman91;48603988]I added an example for further clarity. The point being made is equivalent.[/QUOTE] [quote]Your entire point hinged on the fact that the person looks like a woman.[/quote] became [quote]Your entire point hinged on the fact that the person looks like a woman. For example, your second point starts off with, "Now then lets have an MtF trans person go into the mens restroom. Immediately every single person will know something is off." In this situation, it will be preeminently obvious to both the men and the women, no matter what locker room they go to. [/quote] Which added another layer to your argument. [editline]2nd September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=sgman91;48604012]His pointed hinged on the person in question looking a certain way, and my post was made to contest that point since the person in question doesn't look like a woman, and therefore wouldn't apply to the situations that he had given. I wasn't trying to make any other point.[/QUOTE] Define "looks like a woman"
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;48603960]The point is that she's being difficult over something that really isn't that big of a deal. In using a gender-neutral bathroom she avoids the uncomfortableness of being in a men's locker room, while also avoiding making the women in the women's locker room uncomfortable. It's simply the best way of appeasing both sides. There is a huge difference between gay marriage and school bathrooms. While it's not true equality, it's a fair settlement for both parties, at least until Perry has surgery to change genitalia.[/QUOTE] It's how they're treaing a human being. It's a matter of principle. It's an incredibly big deal. By going to the gender-neutral bathroom, she's being put into this "other" category that doesn't fit in with man or woman. She's specified as an outliar. It's [I]not[/I] a fair settlement. It's unjustifiable. She's a woman who wants to use the bathroom, plain and simple. Let her use the women's room.
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;48604010]The purpose of segregated bathrooms is to have one group with male genitalia use one set of restrooms, and one group with female genitalia use the other. Regardless of gender identification, the person in question should use their designated restroom based on their genitalia, or if they feel uncomfortable doing that, use a gender neutral restroom.[/QUOTE] Bathrooms tend to be associated with "Men & Women" rather than "Penises & Vaginas". Again, a woman is going to be uncomfortable if someone with a beard is going to be using women's bathroom, much like they would, if a woman with a penis would have as well. We don't designate people by their sexual organs, primarily because we don't see them. But to quote sgman, this is about locker rooms, rather than bathrooms. Thereby genitalia are irrelevant.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;48604061]It's how they're treaing a human being. It's a matter of principle. It's an incredibly big deal. By going to the gender-neutral bathroom, she's being put into this "other" category that doesn't fit in with man or woman. She's specified as an outliar. It's [I]not[/I] a fair settlement. It's unjustifiable. She's a woman who wants to use the bathroom, plain and simple. Let her use the women's room.[/QUOTE] A restroom isn't a fucking social platform. You go in, do your business, and leave. If you have an issue with being in a male bathroom, use the restroom with nobody else in it. It IS a fair settlement. It IS justifiable. The restroom is not the place for her to identify as a woman. It's a place to do a natural process of excreting waste. One person wanting to use the bathroom of their choice is not worth upstaging a hundred others.
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;48604195]A restroom isn't a fucking social platform. You go in, do your business, and leave. If you have an issue with being in a male bathroom, use the restroom with nobody else in it. It IS a fair settlement. It IS justifiable. The restroom is not the place for her to identify as a woman. It's a place to do a natural process of excreting waste. One person wanting to use the bathroom of their choice is not worth upstaging a hundred others.[/QUOTE] Half of this post is why I want to do away with gendered bathrooms all together. But you're still missing the bottom line: she's a woman. Let her use the women's restroom. No justifiable reason otherwise other than "oh, it's not a big deal, stop whining." It's not simple as "one person using the bathroom of their choice," it's someone wanting to use the bathroom that fits their gender, instead of being pushed into a seperate one entirely.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;48604061]It's how they're treaing a human being. It's a matter of principle. It's an incredibly big deal. By going to the gender-neutral bathroom, she's being put into this "other" category that doesn't fit in with man or woman. She's specified as an outliar. It's [I]not[/I] a fair settlement. It's unjustifiable. She's a woman who wants to use the bathroom, plain and simple. Let her use the women's room.[/QUOTE] be real, he/she IS an outlier, and doesn't fit in with both females(for now) and males. Once he actually becomes passable then sure use the female restroom as much as you want, but for the time being, for all intents and purposes, he's either a male or neither.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;48604028]Which added another layer to your argument.[/QUOTE] It really didn't. It's just an example of the point. All I did was point out a specific place in your post where my point applied. That's it. [QUOTE]Define "looks like a woman"[/QUOTE] Being identifiable by a majority of the population as a woman without any further explanation.
[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;48604195]A restroom isn't a fucking social platform. You go in, do your business, and leave. If you have an issue with being in a male bathroom, use the restroom with nobody else in it. It IS a fair settlement. It IS justifiable. The restroom is not the place for her to identify as a woman. It's a place to do a natural process of excreting waste. One person wanting to use the bathroom of their choice is not worth upstaging a hundred others.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Kyle902;48603895]I mean lets look at this. There are two possible bad scenarios. MtF trans person goes into restroom coinciding with identified gender. One of the girls in the restroom uses her magical x-ray vision to discover you have a penis and awkwardness may indeed happen. This scenario is hilariously unlikely unless you have girls in the restroom actively looking into the stalls or groping people to find out if they have the peen. Now then lets have an MtF trans person go into the mens restroom. Immediately every single person will know something is off. Why is this girl coming into the guys restroom? Perhaps she's lost? This will inevitably lead to the conclusion "Oh its a dude!!!" and awkwardness and potentially discrimination and sexual/verbal/physical happens. This scenario is literally a guarantee if you force MtF trans people to use the mens restroom. Are you people seeing the flaw in the "Hurr bathrooms should be defined by sex rather then gender hurr" line of reasoning now?[/QUOTE]
Kyle... you previously said that your argument isn't based on this situation. So how could it possibly be an answer to a comment specifically about this situation?
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