• Satanists Want Own Statue Outside of Oklahoma Capitol Building
    216 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Monkah;43119349]But Christianity is the right religion so it deserves more recognition than those unrealistic [I]myths.[/I][/QUOTE] The scary part is that word for word, this is ACTUALLY their reasoning. This is literally their actual argument.
[QUOTE=fulgrim;43122590]yeah my girlfriend is into the whole Satanism thing and i had a flick through her Leveyan book, it has a few weird bits, but its mostly just "you shouldn't be ashamed of who you are and what you do so long as nobody is harmed in the process" you gotta admit that's an all-round positive message.[/QUOTE] commandment 4 of the satanic bible 'If a guest in your home annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy' commandment 11 of the Satanic Bible 'When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them.' hmmm
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;43125543]Obviously they're just metaphors, just like the bible. Duh[/QUOTE] I'm not trying to defend the christian bible I'm just saying I own the laveyan bible and it's just as loony, it tries to hide behind a veil of atheism but it's all about magic
[QUOTE=strayebyrd;43125567]I'm not trying to defend the christian bible I'm just saying I own the laveyan bible and it's just as loony, it tries to hide behind a veil of atheism but it's all about magic[/QUOTE] it's not really magic. it's theatrics. everything about laveyan satanism is dramatic.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;43125693]it's not really magic. it's theatrics. everything about laveyan satanism is dramatic.[/QUOTE] It doesn't help that the creator of the church looks like a damn bond villain. [img]http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/36343285/Anton+LaVey+lavey02.jpg[/img]
Religion is a bunch of mythological concepts, non-narrative elements and ritual put together, Satan is one of those mythological components.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;43121223]essentially most if not all the bad shit that God had to do was as a result of his hand being forced. Even the very first thing fhat has upset God, the apple being stolen, was due to the influence of Satan.[/QUOTE] So the Bible says that god is not an omnipotent, all-powerful being.
I am guessing the satanist want it there just because the christians have one. But this being in Oklahoma, and the group trying to get their monument erected is not, I don't see it happening unless there is a large community of closet satanists in the area ready to come out. And even if it does, I would expect all sorts of vandalism.
[QUOTE=valkery;43118911]Lucien Greaves just sounds like a Satanist's name.[/QUOTE] [img]http://images.vg247.com/current//2013/07/LoL-lucian.png[/img] [img]http://www.the72pins.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/league-of-legends-graves-spotlight.jpg[/img] Or somebody who [I]really[/I] likes playing ADC
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;43125295]So let me see if I got this straight: God created the arch-angel Lucifer(Satan)? Yes? Okay. Lucifer(Beelzebub) decided to go against God. Yes? Alrighty. God cast down a powerful force into an abyss rather than destroying a potentially dangerous foe outright. Got it so far? Bueno. When men went against God, he just destroyed them. According to you, men went against God because of the influence of Lucifer (The Devil). So God is responsible for the mass-murders He Himself committed. Then, in what can only be interpreted as a PR move, God delivered His son to the world through a virgin birth who then proceeded to preach his Father's word, and was eventually executed, but then came back to life and then went to Heaven. So in essence, God didn't sacrifice His son at all.[/QUOTE] and don't forget god also knows everything thats gonna happen for all of time, so he knew when he created satan what satan was gonna do
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43127601]and don't forget god also knows everything thats gonna happen for all of time, so he knew when he created satan what satan was gonna do[/QUOTE] And he also needlessly "tests" people despite allegedly knowing exactly what they're going to do anyway.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;43128880]And he also needlessly "tests" people despite allegedly knowing exactly what they're going to do anyway.[/QUOTE] All of life, the entire purpose of the earth itself is nothing but a "test" to see if you're worthy enough to get into heaven. Since god created everything ,and knows everything, he already knows whether or not someone is going to get in. So all the pain and suffering is completely useless and only occurs because god wants it to for no reason. The entire concept is farcical in and of itself.
[QUOTE=Explosions;43128918]All of life, the entire purpose of the earth itself is nothing but a "test" to see if you're worthy enough to get into heaven. Since god created everything ,and knows everything, he already knows whether or not someone is going to get in. So all the pain and suffering is completely useless and only occurs because god wants it to for no reason. The entire concept is farcical in and of itself.[/QUOTE] This is really in certain Protestant religions which teach predestination. In Roman Catholicism and other Christian religions it is unknown if you will make it into heaven or not and you must use your free will to be a good person to increase your chances.
[QUOTE=darkedone02;43122101]those satanist are the best satanist, hell the whole Leveyan system is basically worshipping yourself from what I heard (correct me if I am wrong).[/QUOTE] That's a very basic and entirely correct description. To take it a step further, it can be summed up as "be yourself and don't fuck with other people's shit if they don't want you to and don't deserve it." [QUOTE=Roshbitnak;43125782]It doesn't help that the creator of the church looks like a damn bond villain. [img]http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/36343285/Anton+LaVey+lavey02.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] That kind of helps actually. I'd love to inform everyone about my religion, but, at the end of the day, if someone is just incapable of understanding Satanism, I like being able to just go "yeah, fine, we're fucking warlocks and shit. Ooga booga."
[QUOTE=matt000024;43128939]This is really in certain Protestant religions which teach predestination. In Roman Catholicism and other Christian religions it is unknown if you will make it into heaven or not and you must use your free will to be a good person to increase your chances.[/QUOTE] That doesn't make sense though because god knows everything. Right? If he doesn't then I've been misinformed. But it seems to me that if god knows everything and also created everything then he is responsible for everything that happens in the future. He knows who will make it and who will not, yet we are all subjected to this "test" regardless.
[QUOTE=matt000024;43128939]This is really in certain Protestant religions which teach predestination. In Roman Catholicism and other Christian religions it is unknown if you will make it into heaven or not and you must use your free will to be a good person to increase your chances.[/QUOTE] Depends on who you talk to. I've never believed in "increasing chances" or "good deeds=heaven". I've always just gone by using your free will to simply have faith is all you really need, because people screw up all the time. And besides, being a good person is nothing but good for everyone around that person, is it not? I think many Christians (or at least I do) simply interpret it as having faith should inspire you to produce good works.
[QUOTE=Explosions;43129053]That doesn't make sense though because god knows everything. Right? If he doesn't then I've been misinformed. But it seems to me that if god knows everything and also created everything then he is responsible for everything that happens in the future. He knows who will make it and who will not, yet we are all subjected to this "test" regardless.[/QUOTE] But God does not know who will be saved and who will not until their time has come. I'm sure there is a Bible passage or Catechism or something out there that can explain it better.
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[QUOTE=matt000024;43129254]But God does not know who will be saved and who will not until their time has come. I'm sure there is a Bible passage or Catechism or something out there that can explain it better.[/QUOTE] That still contradicts what the Bible says that God is all knowing and all powerful. But it does say who will be saved, again, this is kinda based on individual interpretation. (I might just go ahead and refer to the Kind James version for future reference, for accuracy, I'm not exactly crazy about all these different translations). Anyone who has faith will be saved, I guess. [QUOTE]Matthew 10:22 English Standard Version (ESV) and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Romans 10:17 English Standard Version (ESV) So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=matt000024;43129254]But God does not know who will be saved and who will not until their time has come. I'm sure there is a Bible passage or Catechism or something out there that can explain it better.[/QUOTE] So then he doesn't know everything.
If both monuments are locally funded, then I don't see a problem. However, if any one of these monuments are from other states, or areas, then that's just bullshit. The same way I wouldn't go put a monument at Indiana's state capitol, I would expect that someone in Indiana wouldn't come put up a monument at my state capitol. If they want to put up their own monument, in their own state, let them. We have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. I just think it would be easier for us to all get along if we stopped doing things to spite each other or to "prove points".....
[QUOTE=tirpider;43127082]I am guessing the satanist want it there just because the christians have one. But this being in Oklahoma, and the group trying to get their monument erected is not, I don't see it happening unless there is a large community of closet satanists in the area ready to come out. And even if it does, I would expect all sorts of vandalism.[/QUOTE] They're making a statement for all religions, not just for Satanism. By erecting the Ten Commandments in front of a government building, Oklahoma is saying that they are OK with the presentation of religion in a place that should be unbiased and open to all. Buddhists, Taoists, Muslims or Scientologists could have just as easily proposed a monument of their own. The fact that those who did happen to represent the "anti-Christians" just adds to the hilarity of the pit that Oklahoma has dug itself. I think the more likely outcome is the Ten Commandments will be removed, as the group who are proposing their monument probably ultimately desires. [B]Edit:[/B] [QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;43129748] We have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. [/QUOTE] You say that like they are different.
[QUOTE=Finkleburg;43129842]They're making a statement for all religions, not just for Satanism. By erecting the Ten Commandments in front of a government building, Oklahoma is saying that they are OK with the presentation of religion in a place that should be unbiased and open to all. Buddhists, Taoists, Muslims or Scientologists could have just as easily proposed a monument of their own. The fact that those who did happen to represent the "anti-Christians" just adds to the hilarity of the pit that Oklahoma has dug itself. I think the more likely outcome is the Ten Commandments will be removed, as the group who are proposing their monument probably ultimately desires. [B]Edit:[/B] You say that like they are different.[/QUOTE] But they can't stop another religion from doing the same. As long as you have a local chapter of the religion who wants to put one up, I see no problem. That land is for the people, why can't they put what they want on it? And they are different. Freedom OF religion means you can worship whatever religion you want, and nobody can stop you or discriminate against you because of it. It also means nobody can tell you to stop singing christmas carrols in your front yard because they don't like your religion. Freedom FROM religion means I can tell you that the christmas decorations on your house offends me and you have to take them down, because I should be free from anything religious.
[QUOTE=ironman17;43122839]In that regard, are there Satanists who claim that God is a tyrant and that Lucifer's dissent was an attempt to free mankind and angels from divine bondage? It'd be an interesting view for one to hold, if anything.[/QUOTE] There are if I am not wrong it falls under as a sect of Theistic Luciferianism.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;43129898]But they can't stop another religion from doing the same. As long as you have a local chapter of the religion who wants to put one up, I see no problem. That land is for the people, why can't they put what they want on it? [/QUOTE] There lies the problem. Had Satanists approached the government officials before the Christian group, their monument would have been denied on the spot because of the supposed separation of Church and state. When it comes down to it, it's not a problem about religious representation, it's an issue of religious bias in Oklahoma, a state that widely known to be predominately Christian. Incorporating religion to public space is a surefire way to ostracize parts of the community. It isn't exactly a topic where people are humble and accepting of other's points of view. I wish people were as open-minded and accepting as you are, but that sadly isn't the case.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;43129898]But they can't stop another religion from doing the same. As long as you have a local chapter of the religion who wants to put one up, I see no problem. That land is for the people, why can't they put what they want on it?[/QUOTE] Because it's not 'land for the people.' It's land for the state. It's the Capitol building. Just because it's a public building doesn't mean the public can do what they want to it. If you're going to allow a statue for one religion, you can't dismiss the request of another. Otherwise it's not fair representation.
[QUOTE=Finkleburg;43130116]There lies the problem. Had Satanists approached the government officials before the Christian group, their monument would have been denied on the spot because of the supposed separation of Church and state. When it comes down to it, it's not a problem about religious representation, it's an issue of religious bias in Oklahoma, a state that widely known to be predominately Christian. Incorporating religion to public space is a surefire way to ostracize parts of the community. It isn't exactly a topic where people are humble and accepting of other's points of view. I wish people were as open-minded and accepting as you are, but that sadly isn't the case.[/QUOTE] But did they? Or is this a useless discussion of "IF"s and "BUT"s? Did the Satanists approach before and get shut down? I have a feeling that a lot of people in here making claims and generalizations are the same people who shun others for making claims and generalizations about groups of people. I guess I'm more indifferent about religions because I'm from Louisiana, and while I may not believe in any religion myself, I've seen the outcome of the influences it can give in lifestyles and art around the area, especially in New Orleans. So while I may not believe, I do realize it's importance as a factor in what makes cultures and such. [QUOTE=Lijitsu;43130177]Because it's not 'land for the people.' It's land for the state. It's the Capitol building. Just because it's a public building doesn't mean the public can do what they want to it. If you're going to allow a statue for one religion, you can't dismiss the request of another. Otherwise it's not fair representation.[/QUOTE] The reason for me saying that they can't be turned down either. I'm saying they should allow whatever religion wants to put a statue, as long as they have residents there who are part of that religion. If a group of Buddhists live there and want to put one up, forbid me from stopping them. All I'm saying is that this land IS for the people, so if they want to, why not? Weather you agree or not, religion is a BIG part of most people's lives. It, in effect, determines what decisions they make day-to-day. If they want to put a statue up, let them.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;43130288]But did they? Or is this a useless discussion of "IF"s and "BUT"s? Did the Satanists approach before and get shut down? I have a feeling that a lot of people in here making claims and generalizations are the same people who shun others for making claims and generalizations about groups of people.[/QUOTE] I can see you are clearly missing the point of the argument here. I'll go ahead and leave this tidbit of information about the demographics of Oklahoma and I'll let you be the judge if they would or wouldn't turn down a Satanic statue in front of a government building. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma#Religion[/url] To be honest, there is a lot I can dissect from your posts as whole, but it really isn't worth the time or the effort.
[QUOTE=Finkleburg;43130619]I can see you are clearly missing the point of the argument here. I'll go ahead and leave this tidbit of information about the demographics of Oklahoma and I'll let you be the judge if they would or wouldn't turn down a Satanic statue in front of a government building. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma#Religion[/url] To be honest, there is a lot I can dissect from your posts as whole, but it really isn't worth the time or the effort.[/QUOTE] Well of course. I don't need the demographics of oklahoma to know what the religious demographics of the politicians are. I've just learned to look at things through the lenses of what actually happened, than to look at a situation and say what COULD have happened. Of course they would have denied the permit for a satanic statue, I'm not saying they wouldn't. I'm saying they didn't, so the possibility for them to have approved it is still there. You can't call me a murderer if I haven't actually killed anybody, even if you know I would have in a given situation. Same rule applies here, in my eyes.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;43130697]Murder is the same as religious tolerance, yes you got it.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, I didn't know that they let people who haven't passed reading comprehension onto these forums. Let me break it down in a way you understand..... Me see that other religion no ask for statue until after christian statue approved Me see people accuse in-charge people of no approving other statue besides theirs Me see that since other group didn't ask before, nobody can say other group was denied while christian approved There can be no reaction without action Is my point of view clear to you now? I tried to put it in a way you would understand. I'm not saying that they wouldn't have denied it. I'm saying that you can't say they would because if it didn't happen, you don't know for sure that they would.
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