Venezuela jails 100 bourgeois capitalist parasites in crackdown on price-gouging - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42879134]Well when? When is killing people justified?[/QUOTE] depends in what moral context you are discussing. in mine, and what I think they are referring to is when murder is the only option that will have a change on the outcome of a situation that is causing excessive harm and undue damages to people who also have no other method of changing the outcome of the situation. are you saying you would not kill to save a life?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;42879150]depends in what moral context you are discussing. in mine, and what I think they are referring to is when murder is the only option that will have a change on the outcome of a situation that is causing excessive harm and undue damages to people who also have no other method of changing the outcome of the situation. are you saying you would not kill to save a life?[/QUOTE] Senior citizens would be harmed by raising the retirement age. They might develop health problems do to overwork at an advanced age.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;42879150]depends in what moral context you are discussing. in mine, and what I think they are referring to is when murder is the only option that will have a change on the outcome of a situation that is causing excessive harm and undue damages to people who also have no other method of changing the outcome of the situation. are you saying you would not kill to save a life?[/QUOTE] I'm cynical because usually violent revolutions tend to be hijacked or started by some charismatic leader who uses it to create a dictatorship. As for warfare, the peace treaties don't really satisfy both parties and they usually go to war again.

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];42878612']Oh come the fuck on. Here, let me show you my list of references that I have sitting on my bookshelf: The Wobblies, 1999 Patrick Renshaw The S Word, 2011 John Nichols Anarcho-Syndicalism, 1938 Rudolf Rocker* An Unfinished Revolution, 2011 Robin Blackburn Capital Vol 1, Marx* 1917: Russia's Year of Revolution, Roy Bainton The Essential Karl Marx, Viking Portable Library* Comrades!, Robert Service The Red Flag, David Priestland Anarchism, David Guerin* Capital Vol 2, Marx* State and revoltuion, V.I. Lenin* What is to be Done?, V.I. Lenin* Bukharin and the Bolshevik Revolution, Stephen Cohen The crimes of Stalin, Nigel cawthorne Leon Trotsky, Ronald Segal Vision on Fire, David Porter* The Idea of Communism, Zizek and Douzinas* Trotsky, Rick Geary Trotsky and Marxism, Tariq Ali Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism, V.I. Lenin* Further, here's my digital library: History of the Makhnovist Movement, Peter Arshinov* The Unknown Revolution, Volin* Gramsci and Globalization, William Robinson The Russian Tragedy, Alexander Berkman* Homage to Catalonia, Orwell* *Primary sources or contain primary sources in leftist theory Plus I've read shitloads more that I don't own a copy of. And you're here trying to tell me, by extension from yawmwen, that we aren't correctly defining socialism?[/QUOTE] yes i'm actually willing to bet that just by the fact you spent a lot of money on books about fucking socialism. lemme guess you also have a che guevara shirt and you wear it non ironically? or a green cap with a red star on it? do you sometimes wish you had a cigar or a pipe to smoke on so you're seen as more legit in socialist cliques? in a previous post you named something like 15 different examples of the type of socialism you want and you said they are successful, yet only one of them actually exists anymore and it's chiapas and it exists because the mexican government allows it to. about four fifths of the examples you gave rise during wartime or during revolutions unrelated to them, they are what happens in times of need, people need government and when the government they had fails they prefer some organization to absolute chaos, hence why you never see somebody really advocating a total lack of law or rules. if you really think about it the paris commune had barely any other choice but to accept the rudimentary organization of anarchists rather than fall in total chaos after the defeat of France in the Franco Prussian war. same story repeats for most of the shit you mentioned.

The amount of disrespect toward people with communist / arachist views or whatever leftist movement you like in this thread is really surprising me. Must be fun stating your political views with passion, taking the time to explain and argue about it, just to be considered a nutjob.

[QUOTE=Tomberry;42879396]The amount of disrespect toward people with communist / arachist views or whatever leftist movement you like in this thread is really surprising me. Must be fun stating your political views with passion, taking the time to explain and argue about it, just to be considered a nutjob.[/QUOTE] Because threads with a title like this bring only three kinds of people: those that love communist/socialist, those that hate communist/socialist, and those that want to watch them argue.

I don't hate communists I hate people who find murder an appropriate means of furthering political goals.

[QUOTE=Tomberry;42879396]The amount of disrespect toward people with communist / arachist views or whatever leftist movement you like in this thread is really surprising me. Must be fun stating your political views with passion, taking the time to explain and argue about it, just to be considered a nutjob.[/QUOTE] I just don't like it when people try to justify disgusting rulers (mostly in the case of Seed Eater) all because they happened to read the same book as him and said they are a somethingist. I just don't really see how toilet paper shortages, political enemies being arrested on vague and dubious charges, or shooting people and sending them to camps in Siberia is really any kind of success. You still get the odd "gulag denier" in academia today, and it's a bit like watching a sad old rambling man going on about the "workers revolution" when he lives in a world completely and utterly inconceivable to the theorists of the 19th century.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42879463]I just don't like it when people try to justify disgusting rulers (mostly in the case of Seed Eater) all because they happened to read the same book as him and said they are a somethingist. I just don't really see how toilet paper shortages, political enemies being arrested on vague and dubious charges, or shooting people and sending them to camps in Siberia is really any kind of success. You still get the odd "gulag denier" in academia today, and it's a bit like watching a sad old rambling man going on about the "workers revolution" when he lives in a world completely and utterly inconceivable to the theorists of the 19th century.[/QUOTE] The only thing capitalism doesn't do in your list would be toilet paper shortage. Another difference would be how you call a forced labor camp.

[QUOTE=Tomberry;42879572]The only thing capitalism doesn't do in your list would be toilet paper shortage. Another difference would be how you call a forced labor camp.[/QUOTE] I don't see how problems in "capitalist" countries justify the actions of communist states.

What I'm trying to say is that you can't justify such a reaction against communism like they are the only ones who did that, because that is not true. edit : typo

[QUOTE=Tomberry;42879607]What I'm trying to say is that you can't justify such a reaction against communism like they are the only ones who did that, because that is not true. edit : typo[/QUOTE] Yet am I still not allowed to criticize them? Countries such as America or Britain may not be perfect, but they don't go around arresting people who publicly say Stalin is a cunt (no matter how much he wishes it, David Cameron can't arrest people for making fun of him).

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42879653]Yet am I still not allowed to criticize them? Countries such as America or Britain may not be perfect, but they don't go around arresting people who publicly say Stalin is a cunt (no matter how much he wishes it, David Cameron can't arrest people for making fun of him).[/QUOTE] You have that in any dictatorship, communist or not.

[QUOTE=Tomberry;42879681]You have that in any dictatorship, communist or not.[/QUOTE] I don't like any dictatorship though. They tend to be run by inept weirdoes with power fantasies.

Is Venezuela counted as a dictatorship though?

[QUOTE=Lonestriper;42879778]Is Venezuela counted as a dictatorship though?[/QUOTE] It appears to be suspiciously close to one in both appearance and actions. Its Democracy Index isn't especially good either.

Surely its character would be authoritarian rather than dictatorship though. Venezuela does have the semblance of a functioning democratic voting system

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42874960]I could make a fortune selling these guys toilet paper but that would be price gouging apparently. [editline]15th November 2013[/editline] Excellent. Soon everybody will be millionaires. Take that capitalists.[/QUOTE] Except the reason Zimbabwe is screwed up is mostly the fact that the people don't know how to do anything

[QUOTE=LVL FACTORY;42880219]Except the reason Zimbabwe is screwed up is mostly the fact that the people don't know how to do anything[/QUOTE] They kicked out the brightest and than made the country unattractive to anybody with any intelligence.

[QUOTE=Explosions;42879458]I don't hate communists I hate people who find murder an appropriate means of furthering political goals.[/QUOTE] my problem with this is that we live in societies founded on violence furthering political goals, and now we're at this point, that we (or i) don't necessarily agree with, and suddenly any form of change that was used to get here is taboo. but actually yeah i guess murder should always be taboo

[QUOTE=Explosions;42879458]I don't hate communists I hate people who find murder an appropriate means of furthering political goals.[/QUOTE] so does that mean you hate obama? what about hating fdr? how about hating abraham lincoln? or is it acceptable if they have someone else pull the fucking trigger for them? that's why the capitalists are so hard to hate. they have thugs, coppers, and soldiers shoot people for them. their hands never touch blood directly. and even then their hands are still soaked in it. [QUOTE=Sobotnik;42879134]Well when? When is killing people justified?[/QUOTE] when the cops move in. [editline]16th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Tomberry;42879396]The amount of disrespect toward people with communist / arachist views or whatever leftist movement you like in this thread is really surprising me. Must be fun stating your political views with passion, taking the time to explain and argue about it, just to be considered a nutjob.[/QUOTE] i give longass answers and then people say "oh dumb lol", so from then on i start giving shortass that are simple and people say "lol look at how little effort you put into posting, bahhh buzzwords!" most people have no interest in what you write, only stroking their own egos by repeating the conventional dogma they have been indoctrinated with.

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];42877085']I'm a libertarian from a state perspective. I have no problem with using force and coercion in the interest of the working class, [I]so long[/I] as it isn't against the working class. Against fascists? Sure. Against capitalists? Sure. I don't claim to be liberal. Further, I don't believe that shooting or jailing capitalists would be the best method, I would prefer to see the class liquidated and capitalists integrated into the working class rather than have them individually eliminated. That being said, I don't much care if they were removed with force and violence. I think that Makhno was justified when he violently opposed the kulaks*. I believe that Che was justified when he oversaw the trials of capitalists in La Cabana*. I don't think that Lenin was justified when he issued the hanging order. Violence to take out [I]active opposition by individuals[/I] against the working class is acceptable. Violence against a class, simply because it is part of that class, is not. It's somewhat a self-defense thing. You can shoot the man breaking into your house because he's an immediate threat to your wellbeing (you being the working class or the revolution), but it's not ok for you to go out and murder all the people in the mob because of that, even if you're getting rid of the mob.[/QUOTE] youre a fucking sociopath [editline]16th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;42878442]civil rights movement labor movement feminist movement there's 3 for you.[/QUOTE] lol they didn't resolve problems, they created more

"the civil rights movement didnt resolve problems, it created more"

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42879812]It appears to be suspiciously close to one in both appearance and actions. Its Democracy Index isn't especially good either.[/QUOTE][url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-24951590[/url] I posted a thread about this, and nobody really seemed to take notice. I guess I needed to crowbar some sensationalism into the title or something.

[QUOTE=thisispain;42881104]"the civil rights movement didnt resolve problems, it created more"[/QUOTE] yes

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];42877953']Well, but the Paris Commune, Catalonia, Makhnovia, Chiapas, did work. You can't really say this is fair because as a socialist would know, quite literally, only two version of socialism have been put into wide-scale practice, and those are at the reformist (Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia, etc etc) and the Leninist (Russia, China, Korea, etc etc etc) camps, which are only two forms of socialism that vary quite differently than the majority of socialist thought for most of its history. If you're going to criticize socialism, criticize it for what deserves criticism. What you have in Venezuela is a rosy version of social democracy, and you could hardly call it Marxist, if at all. I don't hold reservations that Venezuela sucks, but I also wouldn't consider Venezuela developed socialism. To give a comparison: If protestants separated from the Catholic Church, which in this analogy never actually gained power except in small circumstances where it was quite successful, and formed their own form of Christianity, and then it went on to take over half the world and sucked then entirety of its time in power, wouldn't you, as a Catholic, Anabaptist, Assyrian, Anglican, or Orthodox, be angry that every attack on your beliefs was done on the basis of Protestantism? Even if you didn't support Protestantism, or merely thought it was a step better than paganism, wouldn't it be fundamentally incorrect to start claiming that every Christian who wasn't Protestant is just making excuses that Christianity doesn't work, because gull darnit you've seen Christianity (Protestantism) and you know it sucks?[/QUOTE] I think you should read about titoism if you haven't already There is no point to this post, I just think you'd find it interesting [editline]16th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;42880978]so does that mean you hate obama? what about hating fdr? how about hating abraham lincoln? or is it acceptable if they have someone else pull the fucking trigger for them? that's why the capitalists are so hard to hate. they have thugs, coppers, and soldiers shoot people for them. their hands never touch blood directly. and even then their hands are still soaked in it. when the cops move in. [editline]16th November 2013[/editline] i give longass answers and then people say "oh dumb lol", so from then on i start giving shortass that are simple and people say "lol look at how little effort you put into posting, bahhh buzzwords!" most people have no interest in what you write, only stroking their own egos by repeating the conventional dogma they have been indoctrinated with.[/QUOTE] I'm interested why are you talking about comunism and not socialism, the latter is clearly a more reasonable topic as it doesn't have historical connotations of genocide and shit. I mean, you can make the connection between scientific socialism and communism as it was based on it and get back to the mass murders but it's a bit more contrived.

[QUOTE=Worldwaker;42875009][img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ty8md1TLpYo/TcqaQCFkxjI/AAAAAAAAAWk/e702hp19wr8/s400/zimbabwe_100_trillion_dollar_bill.jpg[/img] Trillionaires, at the current rate if they decide to enact those "laws" regarding businesses.[/QUOTE] i dunno how it all works really but can't they just remove like 9 decimals

[QUOTE=DaysBefore;42875476]For real? Fuck I don't understand why all the internet communists circlejerk about Venezuela, it's pretty far from what they want.[/QUOTE] This. I'm a convinced socialist and semi-communist and even I think venezuela is a piece of shit country. And stalin was a bastard.

[QUOTE=Radley;42881550]This. I'm a convinced socialist and semi-communist and even I think venezuela is a piece of shit country. And stalin was a bastard.[/QUOTE] Yes, he really was a prick [editline]16th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Jojje;42881526]i dunno how it all works really but can't they just remove like 9 decimals[/QUOTE] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwean_dollar#Abandonment"]They did something like that[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tomberry;42879396]The amount of disrespect toward people with communist / arachist views or whatever leftist movement you like in this thread is really surprising me. Must be fun stating your political views with passion, taking the time to explain and argue about it, just to be considered a nutjob.[/QUOTE] The amount of people supporting mass murder as a means to an end should surprise you.