North Carolina’s Anti-LGBTQ Repeal Effort Disintegrates Into A Giant Mess - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51568256]Who really think a small percentage of people not being allowed to marry is at all on the same level as countless people being slaughtered in wars, or individuals being treated like property? Really? You see an equivalence there?[/QUOTE] That doesn't matter, you can't go around grading issues like that. All violations of basic human rights are equally important.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51568256]Who really think a small percentage of people not being allowed to marry is at all on the same level as countless people being slaughtered in wars, or individuals being treated like property? Really? You see an equivalence there?[/QUOTE] human rights isn't some kind of competition lmao

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51568256]Who really think a small percentage of people not being allowed to marry is at all on the same level as countless people being slaughtered in wars, or individuals being treated like property? Really? You see an equivalence there?[/QUOTE] Alright, do you think that freedom of speech is a basic human right? I mean after all not having that right is no-where near not being slaughtered or being treated as a slave! Do you see now how out of touch that argument is? The right to love a consenting adult is a basic human right and must never be sacrificed, for no reason. EDIT: Again, this is not the suffering Olympics. You also ignored the vast majority of my post.

[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;51568253]Kim Davis failed to do her job as a public servant because of extreme/fundamentalist religious views. The Pulse shooter killed multiple people because of extreme/fundamentalist religious views.[/QUOTE] So we should respond to them in the same way? We should treat them as part of the same trend? We should pretend as though ISIS sympathizers and Conservative county clerks are somehow in league and part of the same problem?

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51568269]So we should respond to them in the same way? We should treat them as part of the same trend? We should pretend as though ISIS sympathizers and Conservative county clerks are somehow in league and part of the same problem?[/QUOTE] Yes

The idea that because there are worse things happening in the world, we should stop fighting for LGBT rights and hang them out to dry is fucking absurd and, if I'm being honest, kinda repugnant. Whoaly, I know you're not American, but thinking that LGBT folk are fine and they have all their rights and that there's nothing more to fight for is just blatantly untrue: marriage equality was only just passed into federal law a little over two years ago, the new Republican majority government is trying to strongarm FADA into law (a bill whose only purpose is to legalize businesses to discriminate against gays), and Mike Pence, perhaps the country's most openly anti-LGBT politician, was just elected into one of the most powerful positions in our nation. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you're not LGBT, but saying that they aren't important and their rights aren't worth fighting for just comes across as callous at best and outright hateful at worst.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51568050]It's basically this: "I have certain sexual desires that I can't help and some people don't approve of, I would feel better if there was a bit less social stigma about it." [/QUOTE] This is THE most out of touch thing I've read in a while. Not wanting to risk a higher chance of discrimination, assault or murder is such a small thing to you? That you'd compare it to [I]choices[/I] like being into BDSM? Nobody ever got kicked out of their respective spaces, or became a target for discrimination 'cause they like it when another consenting adult whips their ass in the bedroom. [QUOTE]It is an understandable sentiment, but nowhere near as important an issue as abolishing slavery, opposing unjust wars, or protecting the poor and destitute.[/QUOTE] False dichotomy, once again, completely irrelevant. governments are perfectly capable of working on different issues and it's often different people or entire sections. Just for the record, allowing discrimination is the complete opposite of "protecting the poor and destitute". I know you're trying to go for neutral ground and a middle of the road solution but it's effectively anti-LGBT.

I cannot philosophically support human rights unless they are distributed equally among all human beings for the express goal of allowing autonomous generation of individual meaning-- otherwise, they're worthless.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51568050]No, what I'm saying is that LGBT issues are NOT related to globalisation/economics, which are more important.[/QUOTE] Maybe the government should focus on the big problem of globalization rather than trying to pass laws creating more LGBT issues then.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51564756]I'll never understand how this issue genuinely seems to be the hill the 21st century left are prepared to die on, never. Far better achieved by economic populism and trade protectionism to dismantle globalization, a system in which the highest achievable aspirations of most people is a job at McDonald's. You you can advocate for LGBT "rights" if you want, but you should really file it under the "it would be nice to have" category rather than the "absolute essential pillar of human dignity" category. What percentage of the population are LGBTQ? How does that demographic fall across the upper, middle, working and lower class strata? It doesn't really seem to be an issue concerning the "common people". There are far more important issues in the world, and I do believe that this is sucking way too much passion and energy away from dealing with those, especially among the younger generation.[/QUOTE] You're blaming the left for wasting time and energy on this, when it is the right who has been fighting it tooth and nail at every possible turn. Literally all we have to do as a country to "stop wasting time" on LGBT rights and focus on "more important issues" is [I]stop trying to push discriminatory legislation.[/I]

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51568617]You're blaming the left for wasting time and energy on this, when it is the right who has been fighting this tooth and nail at every possible turn. Literally all we have to do as a country to "stop wasting time time" and focus on "more important issues" is [I]stop trying to push discriminatory legislation.[/I][/QUOTE] This - also, maybe people would target the "bigger issues" after the ones directly affecting them finally go away.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51568256]Who really think a small percentage of people not being allowed to marry is at all on the same level as countless people being slaughtered in wars, or individuals being treated like property? Really? You see an equivalence there?[/QUOTE] Giving equal rights to gays is as simple as a signature on a bill (yet for some reason it is just so hard). World peace is on an entirely different level.

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51568256]Who really think a small percentage of people not being allowed to marry is at all on the same level as countless people being slaughtered in wars, or individuals being treated like property? Really? You see an equivalence there?[/QUOTE] This is appealing to the fallacy of relative privation. "At least you have it better than..." The gall of this trump supporter nationalist brexiter to bring up helping people in other countries as an argument against gay marriage. Accept your muslim refugees and quit chanting for a wall to keep out the mexicans if you're so philanthropic.

[QUOTE=Fouytan222;51568313]The idea that because there are worse things happening in the world, we should stop fighting for LGBT rights and hang them out to dry is fucking absurd and, if I'm being honest, kinda repugnant. Whoaly, I know you're not American, but thinking that LGBT folk are fine and they have all their rights and that there's nothing more to fight for is just blatantly untrue: marriage equality was only just passed into federal law a little over two years ago, the new Republican majority government is trying to strongarm FADA into law (a bill whose only purpose is to legalize businesses to discriminate against gays), and Mike Pence, perhaps the country's most openly anti-LGBT politician, was just elected into one of the most powerful positions in our nation. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you're not LGBT, but saying that they aren't important and their rights aren't worth fighting for just comes across as callous at best and outright hateful at worst.[/QUOTE] People will fight for issues relevant to them. People in this thread are acting like LGBT people have no right to focus on LGBT rights because there are other issues in the world. People have the right to be treated with decency. People who identify as female or male have the right to use the bathroom they want to use. I'll never understand people downplaying other peoples struggle, it's a complete lack of empathy.

[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;51564594] I'm nitpicking the article/huffpost for a sec, but; I really wish these two terms (sex & gender) wouldn't be used under the same umbrella. They're not homogeneous. if you're going to debate the topic, at least be aware of the [I]major[/I] differences in these words.[/QUOTE] ... but but they used them correctly... you do get a gender assigned to you at birth... based on your sex... what the fuck are you talking about

[QUOTE=phygon;51564777]Also, nobody is going to die on it, the LGBT movement is winning. Hard.[/QUOTE] If you'd said this two months ago it'd be one thing, but you must have noticed that Trump is going to be President for the next four years, he has the opportunity to stack conservative Supreme Court justices, the Republicans control Congress. The left chose identity politics as its central cause for the election, it bit them [i]hard[/i], and now the Republicans are in a perfect position to undo all the progress that Democrats have made in the last few years. I'm 100% for LGBT rights and I support protection against discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation or gender identity. But Whoaly is right in saying that Democrats are choosing social issues, LGBT rights chief among them, as their hill to die on, and looking at the recent election I don't think it's going well. And I mean, you can argue that it's a moral imperative to put the needs of the oppressed few above the needs of the many, but objectively our politicians only have a limited amount of political capital to work with and they're spending it on one set of issues inherently at the expense of others. They are choosing LGBT issues as their hill to die on. You can defend that choice, but you can't deny it.

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51568268]Alright, do you think that freedom of speech is a basic human right? I mean after all not having that right is no-where near not being slaughtered or being treated as a slave! Do you see now how out of touch that argument is? The right to love a consenting adult is a basic human right and must never be sacrificed, for no reason. EDIT: Again, this is not the suffering Olympics. You also ignored the vast majority of my post.[/QUOTE] I think marriage bathroom use issues pronoun policing should be the only priority. I'm find with global warming ignored that shit isn't ,important

[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51569036]... but but they used them correctly... you do get a gender assigned to you at birth... based on your sex... what the fuck are you talking about[/QUOTE] I'm not 100% clear on this but I believe sex is biological, like having a penis or vagina, while gender is more mental. Someone who knows can correct me but I think that how it goes.

[QUOTE=kariko;51571221]I'm not 100% clear on this but I believe sex is biological, like having a penis or vagina, while gender is more mental. Someone who knows can correct me but I think that how it goes.[/QUOTE] thats basically it yeah

[QUOTE]“No economic, political or ideological pressure can convince me that what is wrong is right,” he said. “It will always be wrong for men to have access to women’s showers and bathrooms.”[/QUOTE] Really? because history will remember you as being wrong mate.