UK: Only 2% of Young People take Apprenticeships, says OECD - Polidicks

I've applied for about 5/6 different apprenticeships for software development and been knocked back for all of them so far, really fucking sucks cause I'm not learning shit in college

They mostly pay like shit for the same hours and demands of a "real" job. Gee, I wonder why people aren't all over them.

[QUOTE=Ishwoo;51172198]I've seen apprecticeships advertised by coffee shops to become a barista. What kind of career propect is that? "Oh don't worry you're only being paid half the minimum wage, once you have 2 years experience we'll consider promoting you to the national minimum wage (which is still well below the living wage in most areas)". No fucking wonder the stats are skewed when shitty companies are just advertising their shelf-stacking apprenticeships as a way round the minimum wage.[/QUOTE] I think that maybe those apprenticeships are for the kids who just want to get out and work. Isn't it a legal requirement to stay within education til you're 18? I think an apprenticeship counts as that.

Trades are seen as being for working class. Many people, myself included, aspire to be more than working class.

[QUOTE=Morbo!!!;51173343]They mostly pay like shit for the same hours and demands of a "real" job. Gee, I wonder why people aren't all over them.[/QUOTE] I'm not bothered by the initial wage. Though I am still living with my parents, so money isn't really an issue for me. I have friends who did apprenticeships straight out of college and are doing very well now. Seems worth it in the long run. For some people anyway.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;51173359]Trades are seen as being for working class. Many people, myself included, aspire to be more than working class.[/QUOTE] My buddy who was a plumber until a few years back when he shattered his hip made more money than the vast majority of office workers ever see. He was making 40$ an hour, minimum. Bigger jobs, bigger negotiations, bigger paycheques. His take home every year was well over 300,000 as a plumber. There's a lie, that's been peddled by our society, and that's that trades are beneath you. If everyone, even a majority, even 51% had your mindset, the nations of the world would fall into disrepair because guess what keeps us going? Construction? Trade. Plumbing? Trade. Electrics? Trade. It keeps going. And those people, doing those jobs, you're not better than them. [editline]8th October 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=fulgrim;51171743]Not surprised really. My girlfriend was doing bar work as part of an "apprenticeship"- Opening the bar, running the bar, working in the cellar, cleaning, closing the bar, managing the entire pub if the owners felt like going on holiday, £2 an hour, one day off a week. This was through the whole htp agency thing, so we were pretty sure it was legitimate. Nope, the guy from the agency rarely ever showed up to do her paperwork, but she was promised a full time job afterwards so she stayed on for almost two years. She was fired on the spot the day they were required to pay her a full wage, and two more "apprentices" were taken on instead.[/QUOTE] This sounds like it should straight up be illegal and prosecutable.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;51173359]Trades are seen as being for working class. Many people, myself included, aspire to be more than working class.[/QUOTE] It's sad that you think that.

I get having aspirations and dreams, but to talk down to all the tradesmen is pretty fucking shit.

[QUOTE=Shabcos;51173409]It's sad that you think that.[/QUOTE] Who DOESN'T want to escape the working class?

[QUOTE=MissZoey;51173466]Who DOESN'T want to escape the working class?[/QUOTE] It's not about that. It's not like office work is freeing. My buddy who was a plumber now does what I do. It's fucked his life up to lose that kinda money for an office job that pays shit

[QUOTE=Shabcos;51173409]It's sad that you think that.[/QUOTE] I just don't find that kind to work interesting in the slightest. I imagine there are plenty of working people who make way more money than I do that think that computer programming is mind numbingly boring. I, however, want to be more than working class.

I aspire to live how I wish and be the best person I can be. To surround myself to those whom I hold endearment and love. Never have I wished to have status, or regard above another. Just odd to me, been a while since I've even thought about 'classes'. Maybe the American definition of class is different to the UK's. Here it used to be a lot about status, show of wealth, taste, social circles. Not entirely your career. Feels like classes now have sort of blurred. My grandparents on my mother's side would have nothing to do with the 'working class'. Me and my friends are friendly with those from all circles, taking merit for whom they are rather than anything else.

[QUOTE=Shabcos;51173504]Yeah like I aspire to live how I wish and be the best person I can be. To surround myself to those whom I hold endearment and love. Never have I wished to have status, or regard above another. Just odd to me, been a while since I've even thought about 'classes'.[/QUOTE] I don't mean that I'm better than them. You can't be better than someone because of their job, you can only be better than someone if they're an asshole and you're not. I just don't think their jobs are exciting or interesting. I'm sure there's an electrician out there who loves working in different locations, working with his hands, and building stuff and who also think that computers are for nerd losers. I'm just saying that a lot of people look at trades as terribly unexciting or unfulfilling

[QUOTE=proboardslol;51173519]I don't mean that I'm better than them. You can't be better than someone because of their job, you can only be better than someone if they're an asshole and you're not. I just don't think their jobs are exciting or interesting. I'm sure there's an electrician out there who loves working in different locations, working with his hands, and building stuff and who also think that computers are for nerd losers. I'm just saying that a lot of people look at trades as terribly unexciting or unfulfilling[/QUOTE] Okay, I think we have a different idea of working class then.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;51173502]I just don't find that kind to work interesting in the slightest. I imagine there are plenty of working people who make way more money than I do that think that computer programming is mind numbingly boring. I, however, want to be more than working class.[/QUOTE] Dude Are you working daily for salary or per hourly wage? Then you're working class. Even if you make 250,000$ a year, you're working class. Unless you're a millionaire who can live off of passive income generated by revenue creating properties or objects, then you're fucking working class "I want to be more than working class" is a very pretentious thing to say and as an office worker myself, with almost 10 years of physical work under my belt, I really have to say it's quite hard to just shrug that off and ignore it. It's a fairly "assholish" thing to say honestly and if you said it in those terms to a "working class" folk, he'd be pretty non plussed with you.

[QUOTE=Shabcos;51173530]Okay, I think we have a different idea of working class then.[/QUOTE] To me, classes aren't a hierarchy where working class is on the bottom and politicians are on the top. To me, working class is a distinct class of people in working class type jobs. People who are working class can even own their own plumbing business and still make way more fucking money than someone in business or working a middle class office job (in fact, to my understanding, this is often the case). However these jobs require things like working outdoors, getting your hands dirty, physical labor, travelling (from location to location, in construction or plumbing) and it all just sounds like it sucks to me. I'd much rather have an office to sit down and work quietly in

[QUOTE=proboardslol;51173549]To me, classes aren't a hierarchy where working class is on the bottom and politicians are on the top. To me, working class is a distinct class of people in working class type jobs. People who are working class can even own their own plumbing business and still make way more fucking money than someone in business or working a middle class office job (in fact, to my understanding, this is often the case). However these jobs require things like working outdoors, getting your hands dirty, physical labor, travelling (from location to location, in construction or plumbing) and it all just sounds like it sucks to me. I'd much rather have an office to sit down and work quietly in[/QUOTE] Okay I take back anything that was snarky in my last post thanks for the clarification

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51173532]Dude Are you working daily for salary or per hourly wage? Then you're working class. Even if you make 250,000$ a year, you're working class. Unless you're a millionaire who can live off of passive income generated by revenue creating properties or objects, then you're fucking working class "I want to be more than working class" is a very pretentious thing to say and as an office worker myself, with almost 10 years of physical work under my belt, I really have to say it's quite hard to just shrug that off and ignore it. It's a fairly "assholish" thing to say honestly and if you said it in those terms to a "working class" folk, he'd be pretty non plussed with you.[/QUOTE] No, being an office worker is not working class. That's middle class. Being able to work inside with regular hours and stuff like that is middle class, definitely

I disagree with your definition of class, but I do take back what I said before. Sorry for the misunderstanding. You guys may find this interesting: [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22000973[/url] (British class calculator). Clarifies the British definition of class I guess.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;51173557]No, being an office worker is not working class. That's middle class. Being able to work inside with regular hours and stuff like that is middle class, definitely[/QUOTE] I work in an office. My hours are not regular. They are 1 pm to 9 pm, and weekends. But it's an office job. [editline]8th October 2016[/editline] Nothing is quite that clear cut IMO.

[QUOTE=Terminutter;51171332]Its both of them. Why pay new workers when you can either get jobcentre to force someone to do a "trial period" or "work experience" for next to nothing, or offer an "apprenticeship" in "restaurant operation" that is basically just dish washing for less than min wage. Or just hire younger people who have a lower minimum wage because apparently those who are younger need money less.[/QUOTE] Where i live, there is nothing but temp agencies, it's fucking people over. If you want an apprenticeship, good luck finding one, it's almost next to impossible. [QUOTE=proboardslol;51173519]I don't mean that I'm better than them. You can't be better than someone because of their job, you can only be better than someone if they're an asshole and you're not. I just don't think their jobs are exciting or interesting. I'm sure there's an electrician out there who loves working in different locations, working with his hands, and building stuff and who also think that computers are for nerd losers. I'm just saying that a lot of people look at trades as terribly unexciting or unfulfilling[/QUOTE] I can see why people would look at the trades as unexciting or unfulfilling, but in reality, it's not. You learn a lot of things in the trades and you experience different unforeseen problems that you need to solve. Also why would an electrician think a computer is for nerds? If you can build a computer that's basic electrician work

Im travelling around at the moment and wish I had done a trades skill because of how transferrable the skills are around the whole world. You could find work in literally any country.

Back when I was in school (this'd be going back almost 10 years ago now) I'd say we were given very little information as to what was actually involved in Apprenticeships, what was available and what our prospects were if we got them. I don't know if this was necessarily true for all schools but it certainly was true for us. Honestly if I could go back I'd probably try and get a plumbing or electrician's apprenticeship - that way I'd be earning mad money, or at least more money than I'm currently earning with a worthless Bsc. [editline]10th October 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=proboardslol;51173557]No, being an office worker is not working class. That's middle class. Being able to work inside with regular hours and stuff like that is middle class, definitely[/QUOTE] I work in an office and can confirm that I'm in the one of the lower earning brackets for the country. I also used to have highly irregular hours while still wearing a suit and tie to work. People that used to work on factory lines have regular hours and get to work inside, I think your definition might need work.

the lack of youth going into the trades will mean those who actually have are going to be far more valuable in the future. if you want to live a comfortable life, you're more likely to get that working a trade than going into office work or computer science especially with the level lf saturation computer science majors are getting to.

I'm gonna be a bit of a devil's avocado here, but there's plenty of reasons why a company wouldn't hire someone as an apprentice: - Someone already in the company has to teach or at least supervise them more than others - There's no guarantee that an apprentice with no proper experience can actually reach the desired performance - There's no guarantee that the apprentice won't jump ship as soon as someone offers a better pay - An apprentice who's actually getting somewhere in the company with his skills who has inside knowledge of company workings who's easy to poach is a risk for the business model to be taken by a rival company Honestly, the only way I can see apprenticeships actually being worthwhile for companies (beyond just cheap labour) in this time is: - Required employment at apprenticeship provider for at least x years (remove risk of losing freshly trained employees) - Government subsidy (remove the investment risk) Disclaimer: My family owns and runs a furniture manufacturing company.

[QUOTE=Murkrow;51183526]I'm gonna be a bit of a devil's avocado here, but there's plenty of reasons why a company wouldn't hire someone as an apprentice: - Someone already in the company has to teach or at least supervise them more than others - There's no guarantee that an apprentice with no proper experience can actually reach the desired performance - There's no guarantee that the apprentice won't jump ship as soon as someone offers a better pay - An apprentice who's actually getting somewhere in the company with his skills who has inside knowledge of company workings who's easy to poach is a risk for the business model to be taken by a rival company Honestly, the only way I can see apprenticeships actually being worthwhile for companies (beyond just cheap labour) in this time is: - Required employment at apprenticeship provider for at least x years (remove risk of losing freshly trained employees) - Government subsidy (remove the investment risk) Disclaimer: My family owns and runs a furniture manufacturing company.[/QUOTE] You also seem to have access to the devil's avocados. On point though, Apprenticeships are wank, I've never seem one, But co-workers who were apprentices who smashed the shit out of fully paid workers consistently, and still getting that petty wage, just enrages me, like if that person is smashing your fully paid workers stats, surely you'd want to think, hm, actually, it might be a good idea to actually hire that person.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51173415]I get having aspirations and dreams, but to talk down to all the tradesmen is pretty fucking shit.[/QUOTE] I don't mind if people talk down to me when I'm doing a job for them. I just charge them exponentially more.

[QUOTE=zeromancer;51183554]On point though, Apprenticeships are wank, I've never seem one, But co-workers who were apprentices who smashed the shit out of fully paid workers consistently, and still getting that petty wage, just enrages me, like if that person is smashing your fully paid workers stats, surely you'd want to think, hm, actually, it might be a good idea to actually hire that person.[/QUOTE] Not saying that all employers are reasonable, but if you have an option (as an employer) to keep the apprenticeship an apprenticeship for as long as possible, it's in company's (selfish) interest to do so - if you don't mind being a massive dickhead at least. Though it's kind of hard to comment on specifics without knowing what kind of work it was, there's always plenty of good or bad reasons to keep the status quo, even if itseems to be worse than it could be - they might be financial, legal, or just personal.

Friend of mine had a an apprenticeship in a fucking sandwich shop. So basically serving tills for shit wages for a useless trade of making sandwiches.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;51173359]Trades are seen as being for working class. Many people, myself included, aspire to be more than working class.[/QUOTE] I'm amazed you managed that sentence with your head so far up your own arse.