[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48925007]The problem I have with paid mods, along with another myriad of problems, is that it's fucking over the consumer over even more, and it would drive the community apart. In an industry where we're already nickle and dimed the fuck out of DLC, paid mods are literally DLC without any of the quality control that comes from the studios themselves. Not to mention the adding of money turns the community from a very cooperative group to a very competitive group causing shit tons of problems.
[url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1476771&p=48246713&viewfull=1#post48246713]I actually wrote a relatively coherent rant on this on a whole back during the actual paid mods being released.[/url]
[editline]17th October 2015[/editline]
Just don't forget that it will take the already pretty bad copyright system in America and make it even worse.[/QUOTE]
TF2 felt more communitys before it became F2p now It ony seems you make friends on tf2 for the sole purpose of trading
Can't wait for the nexusbay site to get all my warez mods.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;48925543]I can't believe there are people saying they shouldn't have removed paid mods from Skyrim. It was a fucking shitshow. We had early access mods, stolen mods, nagware in free versions of mods, $3 swords, models stripped out of DOTA 2, and mods that didn't work as advertised, all in the span of two fucking days. And for mods that were large the paid version was almost universally inferior because the large mods used other people's work, so that all had to be removed.
Also, pointing to Counter Strike and Team Fortress is a disingenuous thing to do and you fucking know it. There's a difference between a stand alone mod that's basically a full game and a fucking armour set for $5 that doesn't even display properly in the menu. And let's not forget that paid mods caused a number of resource creators to pull their resources for fear that someone else would take their work and sell it.
Modding is something done out of passion and is a cooperative venture. A market is something done for profit and is a competitive venture. Those two things are incompatible and a mod market will (and did) quickly devolve into nothing but the cheapest, most effortless content being pushed out.[/QUOTE]
not only are all of your points irrelevant due to moderation, but how could you say without any experience that all modding must be free because ~morals~
[QUOTE=Frosty701;48924035]Can't wait for the free versions to have all sorts of ads telling me to buy it every 5 seconds[/QUOTE]
If that ever happened I would just go and rip out the script that does that.
Personally I am ok with modders asking money for their work if they think its worth it, however if someone is asking $10 for something I could do myself in like a day then they can eat shit. The paid mod thing was pretty awful, maybe the whole donaton part is the best they can hope for.
do people not realize that all new systems get abusers, that eventually taper off?
If they take that road, they're going to have to make Steam function as a fool-proof mod manager and if it ever came down to Bethesda games, replace Nexus mod database.
Because a problem that ppl haven't focused on are kids/less enthusiastic people who make their games crash and/or fail to configure the mods right, or somewhere near right.
If they pay money for the mods, that should not happen, i.e. trouble to install/configure and so on. Everything should be crash-proof and easy to install mods, swap in and out mods, easy to configure them, all seamlessly in Steam. Only then I would pay for that service.
early access had some abusers when it started but now its pretty nice IMO
[QUOTE=Map in a box;48925732]not only are all of your points irrelevant due to moderation, but how could you say without any experience that all modding must be free because ~morals~[/QUOTE]
Moderation? There was no moderation. What kind of moderation works here?
Also, how do you sell a mod that relies on someone elses mod/work? How do you do that? You license their mod? Yeah, NO POTENTIAL FOR ABUSE right?
It took less than two days for people to steal other peoples work, and sell it. You look at that and go "Well duh, of course that's okay and good for you!"
[editline]17th October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Map in a box;48925831]early access had some abusers when it started but now its pretty nice IMO[/QUOTE]
No. It's still abused on a literally daily basis even to this day.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;48925831]early access had some abusers when it started but now its pretty nice IMO[/QUOTE]
Yeah, every week Steam gets at least one game uploaded that just uses a "pre-made game" asset pack from the Unity store, [URL="http://imgur.com/a/yceJt/"]along with the occasional scam[/URL]
[QUOTE=Rahu X;48924624]Steam paid mods should really work in one of two ways (maybe both even.)
1. An optional one time donation system. While yes, most people will just skip it, I'm sure there's a decent amount of people out there who wouldn't mind donating to a mod author if their mod contributes a lot to the game they're playing. The Nexus has a system like this in place, and there are no complaints from anyone.
2. An optional Patreon-esque system where you can choose to pay an amount you specify per month just to support the mod author.
Monetization of mods should be about supporting mods which you enjoy, not about forcing people to pay for them and while also enabling what is essentially money grubbing.
As long as you make paying for mods [B][U]OPTIONAL[/U][/B], nobody will have an issue.[/QUOTE]
Ya I honestly dont see how steam couldn't do a patreon system, in fact it could be greatly improved over the current early access, greenlight, and dlc combos, think of it as a subscription to early access to content, you could even include full games that way
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;48924386]That's the first I've ever heard anyone say that about Todd Howard[/QUOTE]
Have you seen that man
My favorite part about paid mods was the free ones that were still available, like Midas Magic, but had a 10% chance on casting a spell to pause your game with a dialogue box that told you to buy the full version. Oh how fun were those few days
if not Fallout then it will be DOOM or both
[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;48926164]if not Fallout then it will be DOOM or both[/QUOTE]
doom would be a game that makes sense to do it
The only way this would ever work is if the modders have incentive to make good mods, such as increasing revenue gain based on quality and support for the mod (see unreal tournament.)
Otherwise, were just going to get a massive influx of bad mods (more then usual,) and the system will be abused for the sake of $$$. Mods were, mods are good because people do it out of love for the game. Never underestimate what people will do when they are offered cash.
Furthermore, whats to stop triple-aaa from making broken games and then having them "fixed" by mods? This is BEGGING for shitty business practices from all sides.
I'm not going to pretend to care how much the modders get paid, by problem is paid mods is like doing a jigsaw puzzle where you have to pay for each individual piece, and you don't know if the price is defective, or even for the right puzzle until you've bought it.
[QUOTE=Sableye;48926241]doom would be a game that makes sense to do it[/QUOTE]Doom would be a bigger shitshow than Skyrim.
The Doom series is one of the first and oldest examples of thriving modding communities. People still make and maintain mods for the original Doom to this day. I actually can't think of a worse series to try it with after saying "Alright, we get it, pulling this on an established modding community was a [i]terrible[/i] mistake."
[QUOTE=wickedplayer494;48924190]I would have no problem if it's a "pay what you want" system, or just outright implementation of a direct donation system.[/QUOTE]
It might sound good, but the amount of donations mods actually get is always poor. Gotta understand that some people want to get paid for the time and effort they put into making mods.
[QUOTE=kirderf;48926626]It might sound good, but the amount of donations mods actually get is always poor. Gotta understand that some people want to get paid for the time and effort they put into making mods.[/QUOTE]
In which case they (the modder) could set the model to "pay what you want".
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48925838]Moderation? There was no moderation. What kind of moderation works here?
Also, how do you sell a mod that relies on someone elses mod/work? How do you do that? You license their mod? Yeah, NO POTENTIAL FOR ABUSE right?
It took less than two days for people to steal other peoples work, and sell it. You look at that and go "Well duh, of course that's okay and good for you!"
[editline]17th October 2015[/editline]
No. It's still abused on a literally daily basis even to this day.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48925837]You're joking right?[/QUOTE]
Oh no without any doubt there's definitely abusers that somehow got passed greenlight but there's very few still on early access that aren't playable
And for people who steal your mods, you send a takedown notice to Valve and they remove it and likely communityban them. You can't expect things to be instantly moderated
[QUOTE=kirderf;48926626]Gotta understand that some people want to get paid for the time and effort they put into making mods.[/QUOTE]
Then they're in the wrong field
[QUOTE=Valiantttt;48924741]Who the fuck cares. If they put paid mods in something, just don't buy the mods.
Hell, with the refund system people won't make any money off terrible mods cause you can refund that shit. Mod doesnt work? Refund.
If people want to sell their mods, let them. It will be easier to know who are shits[/QUOTE]
Guessing you don't play bethesda games, there's certain mods that is needed for 99% of all other mods to even function, now imagine if some of those went paid(Like they did in the skyrim fiasco)
If I was a developer, I would keep mods free, but any high quality mod I would release onto Steam and try and cut a deal that's good for everyone.
[QUOTE=megafat;48927029]If I was a developer, I would keep mods free, but any high quality mod I would release onto Steam and try and cut a deal that's good for everyone.[/QUOTE]
That's not to mention a good modding scene for a game generally increases sales. I've bought several games due in part to modding (such as skyrim) and others solely for the mod (such as battlefield 2 for Project Reality).
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;48926895]Then they're in the wrong field[/QUOTE]
Why? If people want to make modding a sustainable activity that gives a stable income, why is that automatically the wrong idea? You're just saying they should keep on making free shit for your pleasure.
[QUOTE=Atlascore;48927401]Because you're [B][I]modifying someone else's work[/I][/B], if you want to make money off of this go make your own game, or try getting employed at a games company.
This shit doesn't fly in any other industry, and for good reason, imagine if someone tried selling their personally edited version of any popular film or television series, they'd get gunned down by lawyers in a flash.[/QUOTE]
Except the whole point of this is that the publishers are giving an official ok to monetize the mods.
[QUOTE=kirderf;48927312]Why? If people want to make modding a sustainable activity that gives a stable income, why is that automatically the wrong idea?[/QUOTE]
Because modding is an unsustainable income.
[editline].[/editline]
What Jacen said
[QUOTE=kirderf;48927312]Why? If people want to make modding a sustainable activity that gives a stable income, why is that automatically the wrong idea? You're just saying they should keep on making free shit for your pleasure.[/QUOTE]
It's the wrong idea because the only kind of mods that would give someone a sustainable income would be large scoped mods like total conversion mods. At that point they'd be better off working on their own standalone games, they'd get a much larger cut of the profits that way.
[QUOTE=kirderf;48927421]Except the whole point of this is that the publishers are giving an official ok to monetize the mods.[/QUOTE]
Mods are at best a hobby, monetizing them gives people the incentive to turn it into a "job" or income source. The issue being that no one wants to actually spend enough money on mods for anyone to make a wage out of it. Either a modder diversifies and does 100 mods at 5-10$ each, or a few really large mods for a lot more. Then you know what? Those large projects literally ALWAYS rely on a piece some one else developed. You now have an issue, because what if that mod is being sold too? Do you bundle it? Hope the buyer has the mod? Expect them to go buy a companion mod to aid they're already buying? Do you just put it in and hope for the best? How do you effectively price your mod if it relies on other mods?
No one who wants paid mods ever wants to think about who the customer base is now, versus in a paid system. No one ever thinks about issues, they just blindly advocate it.
It really doesn't help that you'd be competing for a share of the mod-using portion of a single game's userbase.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48927628]Either a modder diversifies and does 100 mods at 5-10$ each, or a few really large mods for a lot more.[/QUOTE]
This is the problem with YT's monetization (as I know it). Content creators are paid based on their video length. So in theory, this means longer, high quality videos like animations. The reality is that it made everyone move to Let's Plays, which require significantly less effort than animating.
Take Egoraptor for example, he used to post animations, but he found working on Game Grumps and doing Let's Plays paid way more. Battlefield Friends (at least from what I've heard) went the same route: they went to the effort of making animations, but the amount of work put into it was not worth the effort.
This means that paid mods only incentivizes the easiest option. I think there would be significantly less large mods with a paid mods system.
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